HS2: man stands to lose his life's work

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Bayum

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And it does also help to perpetuate the old stereotypes about railway enthusiasts.

There are some really decent people on here though.

There are, and I agree with that wholeheartedly. However, I do recognise and bear the thought that at one point when I first joined the site, if there ever were suicides on the railway, the absolute disgrace and contempt that people on the forum showed of the person was quite disturbing.
 
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takno

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Yes! There are a number of families who have chosen to live in the area nearer to and closer to their families. They’re not all going to be able to buy brand new houses in the area - there aren’t any! So it will pull them apart considerably.



Not hyperbolic. As stated above, many of the families in the area have passed down housing through the generations. The house isn’t just a home, it has the history within them too. Little Johnny’s first steps, when grandma got to hold her grandchild for the first time etc etc.

Quite why the route needs to traverse the village area around the school is unbeknownst to me. There’s lots of space around!
The railway won't work very well if it needs to go round lots of corners. In fact taking lots of turns to go around things that people didn't want knocked down or built through is the main reason why none of the existing railways could be upgraded to the speed. If you route round this villlage you'll just hit another one down the line.

As much as I'm sympathetic to these people, I live in a rented flat and pretty much have to move on at the will of the landlord. If the landlord forces me out it will severely disrupt my life and I will be grateful for any sympathy, but I don't expect any kind of national campaign about it. Hell, my gran hated it when she lost her mobility she had to move out of her home of 40 years just because she couldn't use the stairs anymore. Life moves on and sometimes it sucks.
 

The Ham

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Is it a shame that this man is having his house demolished as part of HS2 and although that will mean that it will impact on his memories but not everyone lives in the same house for their whole life and they still manage to have their memories.

In the last 15 years my remaining grandparents have moved house and their old houses have been significantly changed by their subsequent owners. Does that mean that my families have lost their memories?

I would also suggest that him and his family have probably made changes to the property over the years and so by using his own logic had impacted on his memory.

Although I can understand that he's upset, I can also see that a house doesn't impact on your ability to remember the past.
 

backontrack

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There are, and I agree with that wholeheartedly. However, I do recognise and bear the thought that at one point when I first joined the site, if there ever were suicides on the railway, the absolute disgrace and contempt that people on the forum showed of the person was quite disturbing.
Indeed. Sickening. Things have got a bit better since then as the forum's membership has expanded though.
 

Harbornite

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I don't recall anyone on this forum moaning about the compulsory purchase of properties to make way for the Borders line. Perhaps people only complain when a line is being built on a new formation.

As for the comments about suicide, I recognise that some people have insensitive attitudes towards it. However, for me, there isn't a correlation between having sympathy for them and not being in favour of infrastructure projects like HS2. It is possible to be sympathetic AND be in favour of HS2.
 

backontrack

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I don't recall anyone on this forum moaning about the compulsory purchase of properties to make way for the Borders line. Perhaps people only complain when a line is being built on a new formation.

As for the comments about suicide, I recognise that some people have insensitive attitudes towards it. However, for me, there isn't a correlation between having sympathy for them and not being in favour of infrastructure projects like HS2. It is possible to be sympathetic AND be in favour of HS2.
No-one's 'moaning' about it.

Of course it is possible to be both sympathetic AND in favour of HS2. It's the position of most people on this thread.
 

PR1Berske

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There goes all future major infrastructure projects.
Oh well. Money needs to be better spent, more responsibly, with more justification. This man is losing *his home*. That's not just another shoulder shrug.

Surely you can see that? Your *home* verses a railway line, and you choose the railway?
 

najaB

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Surely you can see that? Your *home* verses a railway line, and you choose the railway?
I have empathy for him losing his home. But at the same time this is a major infrastructure project that will benefit hundreds of thousands or millions of people. Often the benefit to the many outweighs the losses of the few.
 

Ianno87

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Yes! There are a number of families who have chosen to live in the area nearer to and closer to their families. They’re not all going to be able to buy brand new houses in the area - there aren’t any! So it will pull them apart considerably.



Not hyperbolic. As stated above, many of the families in the area have passed down housing through the generations. The house isn’t just a home, it has the history within them too. Little Johnny’s first steps, when grandma got to hold her grandchild for the first time etc etc.

Quite why the route needs to traverse the village area around the school is unbeknownst to me. There’s lots of space around!

I have a cleft lip and palate. I spent most of the first 11 years of my life in hospital for various treatments, appointments and operations. Specifically Booth Hall Childrens Hospital, Manchester. The memories there for me are part (and a very important part at that) of my growing up, as I'm sure they equally are for hundreds and even thousands of others who had treatment there. Laughter, tears, love and trials all in equal measure.

Last time I visited (2012) all was left was a pile of rubble. I think its now a housing estate.

Am I sad about it? Of course I am - no physical remnant of this part of my life now exists at all, other than a handful of photographs.

Do I accept it? Yes, I do. I accept that this hospital (which was originally a Victorian workhouse, believe it or not) was no longer fit for modern purposes and the replacement Manchester Childrens Hospital is far, far superior in every way. Even though now it is unlikely I nor my family will ever see the direct benefit of this hospital ourselves.

Physical thimgs may change, but memories never do.
 

Harbornite

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I have empathy for him losing his home. But at the same time this is a major infrastructure project that will benefit hundreds of thousands or millions of people. Often the benefit to the many outweighs the losses of the few.

Indeed.
 

The Planner

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Oh well. Money needs to be better spent, more responsibly, with more justification. This man is losing *his home*. That's not just another shoulder shrug.
So can we take that as a locals approval to spend any money potentially earmarked for Preston improvements to be used for outside of the railway?
 

6Gman

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I have a cleft lip and palate. I spent most of the first 11 years of my life in hospital for various treatments, appointments and operations. Specifically Booth Hall Childrens Hospital, Manchester. The memories there for me are part (and a very important part at that) of my growing up, as I'm sure they equally are for hundreds and even thousands of others who had treatment there. Laughter, tears, love and trials all in equal measure.

Last time I visited (2012) all was left was a pile of rubble. I think its now a housing estate.

Am I sad about it? Of course I am - no physical remnant of this part of my life now exists at all, other than a handful of photographs.

Do I accept it? Yes, I do. I accept that this hospital (which was originally a Victorian workhouse, believe it or not) was no longer fit for modern purposes and the replacement Manchester Childrens Hospital is far, far superior in every way. Even though now it is unlikely I nor my family will ever see the direct benefit of this hospital ourselves.

Physical thimgs may change, but memories never do.

Very well put.
 

PR1Berske

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Well, it's a point of view.

Don't know how you're going to build roads, hospitals, prisons, schools or regenerate town centres then ...
Investment can be made without demolition of innocent people's homes and you know that's true.
 

PR1Berske

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I have empathy for him losing his home. But at the same time this is a major infrastructure project that will benefit hundreds of thousands or millions of people. Often the benefit to the many outweighs the losses of the few.
HS2 is currently planned to only link Birmingham with London. It does not benefit millions of people as you claim. It does not benefit people in Norwich (it's not designed to go there). It does not benefit people in Leeds (it's not yet confirmed to go there). It's not designed to benefit the entirety of Scotland. Or Wales.

Your post is written on the assumption that HS2 is a national project. It's not. It connects London with Birmingham. And that's it.

Does that meet the cost of an innocent man's home? No.
 

najaB

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Your post is written on the assumption that HS2 is a national project. It's not. It connects London with Birmingham. And that's it.
Do you really believe that it will be solely used for journeys between London and Birmingham? And the trains that continue north to Manchester (3tph), Liverpool (2tph), Preston (1tph) and Glasgow (1tph) will be completely empty?
 

6Gman

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Investment can be made without demolition of innocent people's homes and you know that's true.

So are all these developments meant to zigzag around any property where the owner objects?
 

6Gman

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Do you really believe that it will be solely used for journeys between London and Birmingham? And the trains that continue north to Manchester (3tph), Liverpool (2tph), Preston (1tph) and Glasgow (1tph) will be completely empty?

No purpose reasoning with PR1Berske.

His obsession re HS2 blinds him to any reason, logic or facts which don't fit his view.
 

najaB

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It does not benefit people in Norwich (it's not designed to go there). It does not benefit people in Leeds (it's not yet confirmed to go there). It's not designed to benefit the entirety of Scotland. Or Wales.
Name a single realistic railway project which could do all of that. I'm really interested in what suggestions you have.
 

Ianno87

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HS2 is currently planned to only link Birmingham with London. It does not benefit millions of people as you claim. It does not benefit people in Norwich (it's not designed to go there). It does not benefit people in Leeds (it's not yet confirmed to go there). It's not designed to benefit the entirety of Scotland. Or Wales.

Your post is written on the assumption that HS2 is a national project. It's not. It connects London with Birmingham. And that's it.

Does that meet the cost of an innocent man's home? No.

Glad to see you're back on an argumemt I've already discredited in full on this forum in another thread some time ago.
 

mmh

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Do you really believe that it will be solely used for journeys between London and Birmingham? And the trains that continue north to Manchester (3tph), Liverpool (2tph), Preston (1tph) and Glasgow (1tph) will be completely empty?

There've been many threads on this forum where people have asked what the real need to get to, for example, London to Birmingham in under an hour is. The usual answer from some is "it's not really about that, it's about freeing up capacity on the south WCML"

In other words, we've compulsory purchased your house in the Cotswolds so more people from Milton Keynes can get to London. I think I'd be pretty annoyed by that too.
 

The Ham

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There've been many threads on this forum where people have asked what the real need to get to, for example, London to Birmingham in under an hour is. The usual answer from some is "it's not really about that, it's about freeing up capacity on the south WCML"

In other words, we've compulsory purchased your house in the Cotswolds so more people from Milton Keynes can get to London. I think I'd be pretty annoyed by that too.

True, but name a major project, motorway, airport, railway line which hasn't needed to compulsory purchase land (which often includes people's homes, business and farms, sometimes cutting through the middle of them.

There's always some level of objection from some, whilst others just move on and so rather well it of it. Both groups are offered the same type of compensation but different people react differently.

Personally I'd have put in a planning application to improve the property as soon as it was clear I was going to be likely impacted. In doing so I'd have increased the value of compensation that I'd receive, even if I had no intention of undertaking the works.
 

GusB

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My initial memories were from a flat that my parents occupied. I was very young at the time, and don't remember much. We then moved to a house (married quarters), where I lived for a year or so and made some friends. Then my parents decided that they could afford to buy a house, so we moved again. Some twenty years later, I had to assist with moving the last of the stuff out of that home because my parents had split up and the place needed to be sold. It broke my heart. For a few years after, I used to walk past the place, thinking about how one day I might once more live there. Then reality dawns. They cut down the tree in the corner of the garden, the old shed gets demolished. The old garage is still there, to my surprise, but where we buried our dog is concreted over as a driveway. The property has been modernised, and it's none of my business any more. The memories are still there, though. People have to move on for various reasons.

I do feel for the people who have to move out of properties that are in the way of such developments, and I believe that simply paying "fair market value" for a property is insufficient. Perhaps a premium should be paid on top to recognise the effort that the occupiers have put into making their houses a home over the years, but it shouldn't impede major developments that will ultimately benefit a far larger amount of people.

If it was my house that was being demolished for HS2, I'd be upset. It's no different from "slum tenements" being demolished in places like the Gorbals, for example, in the name of improving conditions for the local population.
 

the sniper

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Oh well. Money needs to be better spent, more responsibly, with more justification. This man is losing *his home*. That's not just another shoulder shrug.

Surely you can see that? Your *home* verses a railway line, and you choose the railway?

Surely you're hamming this up a bit now chap... I'd understand if they were burning the place down with all his possessions inside at a moment's notice and he wasn't being fully compensated, but that isn't the case. I'm no great cheerleader for rail enthusiasts, but this idea that rail enthusiasts are particularly heartless for not empathising with this bloke is nonsense. There are many people in wider society who do move house more then once in their life... many people move relatively frequently. You're talking like this guy is being asked to sacrifice a child for HS2, a loss most people would actually be able to sympathise with to the extent you seemingly expect us to in the case of this bloke's house!

My house or a railway, or a road, or some other big infrastructure project? It's a pain to move, I may well be sad to move, but if I'm being well compensated I'll live with it and move on. And if I were getting as much money as this bloke, I'd be enthused by the very many options for living somewhere very nice indeed!
 

jon0844

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Do you really believe that it will be solely used for journeys between London and Birmingham? And the trains that continue north to Manchester (3tph), Liverpool (2tph), Preston (1tph) and Glasgow (1tph) will be completely empty?

Even from London to Birmingham, it's only going to be MPs and bankers paying their £1000 ticket prices (HS2 is going to be super expensive, remember) on expenses, of course, to just save a few minutes.

Nobody else will be able to afford to use HS2 you see.
 

Abpj17

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The biggest impact, which few have picked up on, from the article are the references to his business being next door, and two or three other parts of his family living in essentially the same road. In struck me that the article was about getting more money than it was about fundamentally blocking a major infrastructure programme.

Relocating a business can be difficult to find a good location while retaining customers.

And I imagine it will genuinely be nearly impossible to find three homes, and appropriate business premises, within a ten minute walk of each other in a rural location for the wider family for the standard market value of the homes when seen as individual units. Whereas the family see them as a connected network and attach a greater value to the whole, than the simple sum of its parts.
 
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