HST - The end of an era?

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Jonno2055

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In a few minutes BBC breakfast on bbc one will be having a special report on the HST and seeing what replacements there could be, today the transport secretary will be releasing plans on the future of britains railways and what to do to find a replacement for the HST.

BBC Breakfast 6.50am

Jonno
 
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Guinness

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The HST won't be replaced anytime soon at least not for another 5 years. HST2 is still some years away and according to Siemens nothing is to be built until late 2009. Personally I would like to see the HST2 replace some Voyagers on longer routes e.g. Edinburgh - Penzance etc. which will free up Voyagers for future routes such as Nottingham - Cardiff. :)
 

Met Driver

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I saw the report at 0750.

Nothing majorly interesting (it was only a few minutes long). They reported that HSTs will be here for around another 10 years.

They also read out some follow-up emails. One viewer commented how much better the HSTs are than the "horrible voyager trains with those noisy engines under every carriage". It would be interesting to know if that comment came from a 'normal' or not.
 

devon_metro

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Seth said:
They also read out some follow-up emails. One viewer commented how much better the HSTs are than the "horrible voyager trains with those noisy engines under every carriage". It would be interesting to know if that comment came from a 'normal' or not.
I thought that, and agree with him 100%!
 

devon_metro

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Although i doubt this would actually happen, as the SW would be pointless to be electrified as a train wanting to go from Plymouth to the rest of the country needs to pass Dawlish Sea wall, which IMO is impossible to electrify. And i doubt it would be efficient to use thunderbird units along the sea wall!
 

Jonno2055

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That reports was a bit.... dull ihave to agree, nothing we already didn't know and didn't exactly answer the question the report was set to answer, even tough we know that the HST is being replaced by the HST2.
 

Met Driver

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dvn1357 said:
Although i doubt this would actually happen, as the SW would be pointless to be electrified as a train wanting to go from Plymouth to the rest of the country needs to pass Dawlish Sea wall, which IMO is impossible to electrify. And i doubt it would be efficient to use thunderbird units along the sea wall!
The only chance of getting OHLE down that way is via Okehampton, should they choose to reopen the remainder of that line. As you say, not much point in putting OHLE on the sea wall what with climate change et al.
 

devon_metro

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Jonno2055 said:
Go to bude i say. But it is impossible, housing estates etc.
And cut a massive portion of Devon out :roll:

The line from Newton-Exeter would need to be reinstated meaning getting past the A38 which is in the way!
 

Techniquest

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I heard there was something on BBC Radio 2, missed it though.

That thing from The Telegraph is interesting, nice to know HST2 isn't due til 2013, a year later than originally predicted somewhere. Still find it hard to believe a Land Rover weighs as much as a seat on a 390.
 

Techniquest

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Considering they're complaining how heavy the 390s are, they being operated by overhead supply or Thunderbird power only, think how heavy just the power cars for HST2 would be if they were able to run on 3rd rail, OHLE AND diesel...
 

Jordy

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Seth said:
I saw the report at 0750.

Nothing majorly interesting (it was only a few minutes long). They reported that HSTs will be here for around another 10 years.

They also read out some follow-up emails. One viewer commented how much better the HSTs are than the "horrible voyager trains with those noisy engines under every carriage". It would be interesting to know if that comment came from a 'normal' or not.
When on the 90 from Stafford to Birmingham last year, there was a normal person on it who definately said "They're better than them Voyager things these aren't they" to his friend :lol:

Jordy
 

ikar

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WSXFan said:
Considering they're complaining how heavy the 390s are, they being operated by overhead supply or Thunderbird power only, think how heavy just the power cars for HST2 would be if they were able to run on 3rd rail, OHLE AND diesel...
Aint the HST2 be a Multiple Unit.
 

andel

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Quite honestly I wish you'd all stop slagging the voyagers off... no, they not HST's and Mk3s... but to be honest, its better than some of the crap out there in other countries. I personally like the fact that now i get a table, a power socket for the laptop and a guarenteed space. Thats just me.

And before I get flammed for that comment, I'd thank you to remember opinions are like arseholes - everyones got one! :D
 

Techniquest

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andel said:
Quite honestly I wish you'd all stop slagging the voyagers off... no, they not HST's and Mk3s... but to be honest, its better than some of the crap out there in other countries. I personally like the fact that now i get a table, a power socket for the laptop and a guarenteed space. Thats just me.

And before I get flammed for that comment, I'd thank you to remember opinions are like arseholes - everyones got one! :D
Ho-hum. Did I slander the Voyagers at all?

*Checks the log of posts, notes many slanderous posts on Voyagers, none relating to current thread*

I haven't dissed Voyagers, Meridians or Pioneers in this thread. The closest I came to it was my use of "No!" in an earlier post on page 2 of this thread, after it was suggested HST2 should be a MU. There are many good reasons why HST2 should not be a MU, most of which relate, for me at least, to personal experience of the 3rd gen DMU/DEMUs and to what other people have experienced with them. There's not much good about the Voyagers IMO, least of all being the underfloor engines, which DO cause vibration and noise in the floor, walls, seats and tables of the units. Even norms have voted with their feet and dissed the Voyagers as being cramped and uncomfortable.

Good luck finding a table in Coach F on a Voyager too, there's, to my memory, just 2 per coach, bar the one for the disabled passenger. On the subject of it, Coach F obviously being the Quiet Carriage, why is it Virgin's policy 'bans' mobile phones but not personal stereo equipment? The latter can be more disturbing than a mobile, especially if you are the unlucky soul who sits in the airline seat in front of, or even worse right next to, the rebellious teenager who insists on playing loud rap music or whatever BS they plan to permanently destroy their hearing with? I've been at the point of snatching their earphones from them and stamping/smashing/breaking them in anger. A Quiet Carriage is just that, quiet. In case anyone here happens to do just the above, if I have to sit anywhere near you, be prepared to turn your noise off or risk losing it altogether.

I have dissed Voyagers now, but I do have reason for it. HST2 should not, and had better not, be a MU. It will be a retrospective step in rail fleets if we have to suffer another 20 years of MUs on IC. I'd rather hang up my notebook and pen if HST2 were a MU than support it.

That's enough from me on the subject for now.
 

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Whats that...? :!: :?:

Voyagers are crap..?

Tell me about it ;) :roll:

:lol: :lol:
WSXFan said:
I'd rather hang up my notebook and pen if HST2 were a MU than support it.
You have a hook for your notepad and pen?! :scratch: :o :o :o

WOW, thats devotion for you! ;) :thumblef: :lol:

BTW, FGWFan, why are you WSXFan? :s

Wessex SUCK!:banghead: :| :lol:
 

Techniquest

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spm_43030 said:
Whats that...? :!: :?:

Voyagers are crap..?

Tell me about it ;) :roll:

:lol: :lol:


You have a hook for your notepad and pen?! :scratch: :o :o :o

WOW, thats devotion for you! ;) :thumblef: :lol:

BTW, FGWFan, why are you WSXFan? :s

Wessex SUCK!:banghead: :| :lol:
ROFLMAO! Seriously, for some reason your post got my laughter going for a few moments there! "What's that? Voyagers are crap?", classic.

As for my having a hook for the notepad and pen, it was not to be taken literally. It was like saying "I'd rather give up beer than put up with X", although I can't remember the whole and correct phrase used.

As for the WSXFan thing, it is, as my signature text suggests, only temporary. FGWFan is temporarily dead until FGW gets its performance and reliability back to a reasonable standard. To be beaten by operators such as CT and ATF...It's also to do with one of the three things I gave up for Lent. To give up Diet Coke, HSTs and FGW fanship (all three things I love) would make it challenging and give me the opportunity to work on the things that were more important. Of course, it hasn't exactly happened yet, but that has something to do with being home-bound with a bad leg right now. When that recovers, it's back to job hunting. My original motive was to give up all of the above three items for Lent to get a job, get some money, start clearing debts, get myself onto an ALR later this year, get a trip on Eurostar done this year, clear many of the year's objectives and, mainly, see if I can manage 40 days without any of them. I will have to do that eventually, I can't go on for decades loving HSTs (the fact they won't be around for that long is not important here), I will have to get on with things normal people do eventually.

It is only Day 16 of Lent, 24 days to go. Hopefully I can stay off the three things I have elected to give up for the remainder of the time. Shouldn't be too hard. I'll certainly appreciate them more when I do go back to them.

Hopefully that answers the question Sprog. Feel free to discuss the above further via PM or MSN.

Regards,
WSXFan
 

Sprog

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WSXFan said:
ROFLMAO! Seriously, for some reason your post got my laughter going for a few moments there! "What's that? Voyagers are crap?", classic.
I try, i try............ ;) :D

That does answer my question ta

I still say Wessex suck though! :argue:

17 minutes my train was delayed yesterday, and 12 the day before. :roll:

Work are getting ****y!

Oh well..................:rolleyes:
 

Guinness

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If the HST2 is to contain 3rd Rail, OHLE and Diesel I think a good design would be for 3rd Rail/OHLE Traction Equipment to be in the style of an EMU e.g. underfloor in the carridge like the Pendolino with Diesel Traction driven at each end like on the current HST so you don't have the underfloor vibrations.

I'm expert in engineering and all that stuff just I'm saying it from a onboard comfort experience. If they get the HST2 bang on right, it would mean a great train that would last decades. :)
 

richa2002

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I agree with Chaz. That would be the best thing to do. I think we should try and do with what we did with the HST and show that we can make design decent trains :D
 

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Very true, but if the DfT are taking it in-house to develop without help from the TOCs who know what they will be needing...I'm personally expecting a repeat of Operation Princess at this time.
 

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Chaz said:
If the HST2 is to contain 3rd Rail, OHLE and Diesel I think a good design would be for 3rd Rail/OHLE Traction Equipment to be in the style of an EMU e.g. underfloor in the carridge like the Pendolino with Diesel Traction driven at each end like on the current HST so you don't have the underfloor vibrations.
That setup would depend on how the diesel engines supply power to the train. If it was a diesel electric setup (like a Class 43, or a Thumper), then I would imagine the traction motors would have to be sited in the same vehicle as the diesel power unit.

I think the most sensible option would be to house all the traction equipment in one vehicle (at each end of the train), however you'd have to find a way of doing that without bumping up the weight too much.
 

Tom C

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To be honest I can't see the point in having DC equipment fitted as only the Southern Region really uses it and there are very few intercity routes that enter this area and at present it is hard to see how more are going to be pathed when suburban services really need them. The Brighton and Bournemouth services are infrequent enough for them to continue to run using diesel stock rather than trying to fit to much technology onto it.

That said the idea of a diesel/overhead loco/unit (please let it be the former) is something that has never been done and if they can do it it would prove to me that we could still build trains that are as good as the current HST.

What scares me is the budget they are going to give to the project. Railway funding is already pretty poor and I just hope that the new trains are not built to a price (just look at the quality of the Pendolino and Voyager for instance). I am fairly sure that people would be willing to pay extra IF the train/service they are receiving is up to a standard but if the HST2 is built with a poor interior then I can see it being a disaster for Britains Railways as I am sure fares will go up as a result of the investment.

It has to be a worthwhile investment otherwise invest in the current HST as we all know that is more than capable of doing the job :)
 

hexflyer

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WSXFan said:
Considering they're complaining how heavy the 390s are, they being operated by overhead supply or Thunderbird power only, think how heavy just the power cars for HST2 would be if they were able to run on 3rd rail, OHLE AND diesel...

The power cars wouldn't be much heavier than the existing ones, you use distributed power, the power cars would simply be driving vans with a diesel-alternator set, the traction motors would be distributed along the coaches, with the OHL 25kv stepdown transformer placed under one of the cars, the 3rd rail equipment doesn't amount to much just needs fitting of 3rd rail shoes, all the technology exists, talking to one of our siemens techs last year he said it would be fairly straight forward to fit all the equipment, the main issue is keeping the weight down, with all the consumer demands of at seat power points, WI-FI ,air conditioning power doors etc this pumps the car weights up (just look at the pendolino's nearly 50tons each car!! compared with 32-35 tons for a mk3)

The HST2 spec is quite specific in not having engines under each car, finally lessons are being learned from the 220/221/222/180's that big engines under ones feet are not popular with the travelling (and paying) public!

HST2 will use EMU technology but think ICE rather than Desiro
 
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