Huddersfield to Westtown (Dewsbury) - Public Consultation

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by wellhouse, 11 Sep 2019.

  1. wellhouse

    wellhouse Member

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    With Public Consultation now under way for this scheme, it deserves a dedicated Thread away from general discussion on the entire Transpennine Upgrade. As and when further schemes are announced, they might also deserve dedicated Threads.

    Some of the info below is already buried in that thread, so forgive me for repeating it.

    The consultation website currently shows only a Route Overview, but with the exception of Huddersfield Station, the graphics on display at the Public Drop-In Events showing more detail of each section of the scheme have yet to be uploaded. Apparently there is a problem with the size of the files, but they are promised to be available very soon.

    https://consultations.networkrail.co.uk/communications/huddersfield-to-westtown-dewsbury/

    Much is yet to be determined, so the published plans are far from definitive. Conversation with the Network Rail staff established the following;

    It is quite remarkable that that ‘Improvement to rail services’ or ‘Benefits to passengers’ are not even suggested as possible important issues.

    Since the proposals are so far from finalised, I urge all with an interest in improved Transpennine and local services to participate in this Public Consultation, and, perhaps, share their submissions here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 11 Sep 2019
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  3. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Isn't it the case that services leaving or arriving into platform 2 already don't conflict with the Manchester line? This can be witnessed daily in the evening peak, when the peak extra Sheffield leaves P1/P4 just as the previous arrival draws into P2. Unless they're referring to the possibility of slewing the P1 track nearer to P4, and further widening P1 much like happened in 1988/89- something I believe has been mooted as a possibility...

    I can only hope they'll redo the overall roof if they do that!
     
  4. AndyHudds

    AndyHudds Member

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    I think it's a mistake not making car parking provision at either Deighton, Mirfield and Ravensthorpe. Mirfield is reduced to heavy parking along the roadside even though it does have a small car park whereas Deighton and Ravensthorpe has nothing at all, Deighton isn't even served by buses aside from a Sunday!!!

    It's also disappointing if there is no increase in frequency of stopping services. The Brighouse/Halifax/Bradford should be at least twice and hour and the Leeds stopper from Huddersfield I don't think it's unreasonable to have 3 an hour at 20 minute intervals.
     
    Last edited: 11 Sep 2019
  5. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Deighton station is also relocating, to between Bradley junction and the bridge carrying Leeds Road over the railway. There should be space to put a decent-sized car park in there so that does seem to be an oversight unless it'll be dealt with in a separate process.

    Increasing the frequency of the stoppers would probably boost usage, but based on loadings outside of the peaks, 3tph would be overkill at least initially. Once wires are up all the way to Leeds, a quick-off-the-mark EMU would be able to keep out of the way of the fasts once back on the 2-track section beyond the scope of this planning application. 2tph stoppers, evenly spread, should definitely be the target.
     
  6. AndyHudds

    AndyHudds Member

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    Oh I didn't realise Deighton was relocating too.
     
  7. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    It's covered in the broader route upgrade thread, moving to Bradley. The lack of a mention of this in the consultation documents is a bit concerning (along with the proposal to remove a conflict which doesn't exist: the line from Sheffield into platform 2 already doesn't touch the up main) but then this is Kirklees Council so I shouldn't be surprised!
     
  8. Spartacus

    Spartacus Established Member

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    Huddersfield Examiner’s covered it in their usual fashion, but they do at least have the maps. https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news...allery/maps-reveal-finer-details-1bn-16896794

    I’m actually rather surprised by the amount of work planned east of Ravensthorpe, I’d always thought it would follow the current alignment until west of the canal, but it’s shown on a new alignment with a new bridge, presumably to maintain speed instead of having to slow down. My personal preference would be for a dive under at Ravensthorpe, a flyover would be quite imposing and visible for miles around on the edge of greenbelt.

    There should inherently be increased capacity for local services with this design, especially if you wanted to run a regular service from Wakefield towards Brighouse and Bradford or Hebden Bridge and beyond which I’d have thought would be a good idea.

    I’d be surprised if the new Ravensthorpe station didn’t come with a large car park, a large area currently with a business on should be vacant after the works, indeed I’d expect it to relocate before it starts. Mirfield should gain a larger car park due to the wood yard being vacated, and possibly the PW yard too.
     
  9. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    I'm not convinced there's much demand for a regular service running along the original L&Y (Brighouse to Wakefield Kirkgate). Arriva Yorkshire have made massive cuts to that corridor in recent years despite buses being able to serve Dewsbury, so I doubt it would do well. Concentrate on improved frequency on the established routes first.
     
  10. Roast Veg

    Roast Veg Member

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    At present the Leeds to Southport services run via Dewsbury whereas the Leeds to Huddersfield service runs via Bradford with a reversal - might these two be switched in order to run an electrified stopper to Huddersfield and give the Southport service better connectivity? The Southport service already runs via Todmorden.
     
  11. wellhouse

    wellhouse Member

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    Links to the section detail graphics are now avaialable on the site.

    Apologies for lack of clarity in the OP. I should have said 'maintaining' rather than 'eliminating'

    This is a Network Rail Consultation, not Kirklees Council

    There is of course a need for increased car parking at all 4 stations, including to the north of Huddersfield station, but it's not an oversight, it's just not part of this scheme. As mentioned in the OP, Network Rail are open to additional car parking provision, but look to other agencies such as West Yorkshire Combined Authority or Kirklees to lead on this.

    Absolutely. 2tph should be the minimum frequency of local services within West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester, especially when connections are taken into consideration. Further thought might be given to routeing at least one Transpennine service (one of the Newcastles?) via Wakefield Kirkgate to York to release capacity between Dewsbury and Leeds. Capacity problems on The Penistone Line might be addressed by reinstatement of the Horbury West Curve to allow a fast Huddersfield/Barnsley/Sheffield service. Both concepts would require additional capacity towards Healey Mills. This could well be cheaper than extension of loops and selective redoubling to increase service frequency between Huddersfield and Barnsley. At the very least, capacity within this scheme should be sufficient to allow for such developments in the future without further major resignalling or remodelling.

    This is clear now that all the graphics have been made available online. It is disappointing that these graphics are not in the consultation leaflet distributed at the drop-in events.
     
  12. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Apologies for the off-topic, but I'd be hugely surprised if additional capacity towards Healey Mills AND reinstating the Horbury curve could be delivered for less capital outlay than an additional loop at the North end of the Penistone line. Particularly if that loop was placed between Lockwood and Berry Brow, negating the need for additional platforms and the associated step-free access.

    Travel South Yorkshire have aspirations for a second Huddersfield to Sheffield service, so if the two PTEs can collaborate on this it would help.
     
  13. xotGD

    xotGD Established Member

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    Is Deighton actually being moved? The linked document says:

    "The location of Deighton Station and its surrounding constraints, means accommodating the additional tracks and platforms has been difficult to achieve. However, our proposal represents the best solution to retain the station at its current location based on information collected to date."
     
  14. Spartacus

    Spartacus Established Member

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    Yeah, I lived on the route for some years, but some of the bus timings were horrendous, if you lived anywhere near a station it was quicker to get an indirect train than the direct bus. Most I suspect just drive, contributing to the congestion the bus largely got stuck in too.
     
  15. Spartacus

    Spartacus Established Member

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    The Dewsbury - Sowerby Bridge bit it quite well patronised now, I think anything needs to be additional rather than a replacement.
     
  16. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    The maps posted as part of the overall upgrade (see the main thread) indicated moving the station around 200m towards Bradley Junction, near to where the car dealership is. If it was to stay on the same site as it is today, the platforms would need dismantling and moving anyway. The current site has no room for car parking, and the road bridge carrying Whitacre Street over the railway is in poor condition, with weight restrictions, and has been narrowed to a single track road over said bridge.

    EDIT: as you say, this latest information seems to suggest retaining the existing location, which seems odd considering that the documents readily admit the constraints of that location. Then again the initial maps also showed the middle line at Dewsbury being removed, which seems counter-intuitive if we want to boost capacity.
     
    Last edited: 11 Sep 2019
  17. SquireBev

    SquireBev Member

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    No expense spared on those CGI mockups of the stations. Wow!
     
  18. 158756

    158756 Member

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    If I understand what you mean correctly, so the existing services would be replaced by another Leeds - Dewsbury - Huddersfield stopper and a (Southport) - Todmorden - Bradford - Leeds, that would leave Brighouse with no service at all, as well as removing the link from Huddersfield to Halifax and Bradford (though at 1tph this is probably only useful for connections?)
     
  19. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Those bridges look particularly ugly! Strange that the Deighton render appears to show the retaining wall that exists at the proposed new location, when all the information suggests NOT moving the station to Bradley as was cited in the earlier plans. I'd also argue that there's a case for providing platforms on the fast lines at Mirfield, so that a service can still be provided if the slows are closed for maintenance.
     
  20. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    Well looking at the map Deighton definitely moves to the west, either that or the platforms get shortened a lot to allow room for the dive under of the slow lines to Wakefield.
     
  21. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    It sounds like you're confusing Deighton with Ravensthorpe, as there's no need for a dive-under near Deighton (the Bradley curve towards Brighouse will only connect to the slow lines). Ravensthorpe will move to the West to allow for the grade separation, Deighton if it moves much at all will move around 200m to the East.
     
  22. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    Oops, you're right! :oops:
     
  23. GRALISTAIR

    GRALISTAIR Established Member

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    Pleased one of the headlines is this:

    Electrification of the railway from Huddersfield to Ravensthorpe – and right through to Leeds.

    But disappointed not to York
     
  24. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Easily done! I do wonder if the Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford service will start to call at Deighton once the 4-tracking is complete, as it'll not be getting in the way of TPE services. WYPTE will have to redraw their map though!
     
  25. SquireBev

    SquireBev Member

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    I still haven't forgiven them for removing the line colours.

    It could do with some redrawing around the Brighouse area anyway, as the current design suggests that services from the Mirfield direction terminate there.
     
  26. AndyHudds

    AndyHudds Member

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    There's no real reason for it not to in all honesty, especially if and when Elland station is built.
     
  27. Spartacus

    Spartacus Established Member

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    If there's an extra service through there it should help the business case for Elland, and possibly for a station between Ravensthorpe and Kirkgate, probably at Horbury Jn. One train per hour on that bit's always going to ruin a business case for a new station. Anyway, that's all quite speculative.
     
  28. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Low Moor reopened with only an hourly service for most of the day, and the usage figures have been disappointing as a result. An extra station between Ravensthorpe and Kirkgate could be a good idea, but Horbury Junction is distant from any major roads to access said station, and surrounded by fields and wetlands and the M1. Horbury Bridge (at the Eastern end of Healey Mills, as the up and down lines re-unite) would be a better location, on the main Huddersfield to Wakefield road and easily accessible from Ossett.
     
  29. Spartacus

    Spartacus Established Member

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    Yep, getting my Horbury's mixed up, meant Bridge all along. :E
     
  30. 158756

    158756 Member

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    The killer for a business case for a station there would be the lack of a direct service to Leeds - look at Featherstone and Streethouse nearby for the sort of usage figures you get without that.
     
  31. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Of course one plus side of a Horbury junction station would be the possibility of serving Barnsley line services too. A large car park off the A636 and signposted from the M1 at junction 39 would make sense in a way... but at that location there's very little surrounding residential population, and you'd either need 4 platforms, or to radically remodel the junction to ensure all stopping services used the same pair of lines.
     

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