Hull - Selby Electrification 'Rejected'

[CdBrux]

Isn't £2.8bn including a lot of signaling as well, so not just 'simply' electrification (by which I mean OHLE, wires, substations and bridges / tunnels and the like)? Not to mention what must be some higher than normal degree of re-planning and waste.

Might it be better to look at another project where the signaling did not also need to be done?

 

[snowball]

Isn't £2.8bn including a lot of signaling as well, so not just 'simply' electrification (by which I mean OHLE, wires, substations and bridges / tunnels and the like)? Not to mention what must be some higher than normal degree of re-planning and waste.

Might it be better to look at another project where the signaling did not also need to be done?

If you include all the non-electrification stuff, the total cost of the Great Western Route Modernisation is £5.58 billion!

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/modernising-the-great-western-railway/

 

[YorkshireBear]

If you include all the non-electrification stuff, the total cost of the Great Western Route Modernisation is £5.58 billion!

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/modernising-the-great-western-railway/

All of a sudden HS2 looks a bargain.

As we are proving again upgrading lines is beyond difficult. Yes it could be done better but regardless it will always carry massive risks.

 

[backontrack]

Well every time we've stuck wires up on a route the sparks effect has been quite dramatic in terms of increased usage and quality of service (a cursory look at West Yorkshire dramatically demonstrates that). No reason to suspect that something similar wouldn't happen here. Plus there are all the other advantages of electrification that have been discussed ad infinitum.

Perhaps Hull isn't a priority what with the state of the rest of the CP5 work but to simply rule it out completely seems very short sighted. By all means lets kick it out into the long grass of CP6/7 but to cancel it entirely?

And I would argue that Hull electrification is more important than wiring Gospel Oak in any case. What would GOBLIN gain from having wires up that Hull wouldn't? It's not as if the 172s are that old or anything.
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If you include all the non-electrification stuff, the total cost of the Great Western Route Modernisation is £5.58 billion!

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/modernising-the-great-western-railway/

Is that just London-Cardiff/Bristol or is that down to Plymouth and Penzance as well?
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Hull only has one main rail line in and out (unless you count the jaunt up the coast to Scarborough). Contrast this with Manchester, Edinburgh, Portsmouth, Cambridge, Southend and Ashford which all have multiple ways of getting in and out by rail. Most of these seem to have one primary route (e.g via Stoke/Newcastle/Guildford/Letchworth/Basildon/Ebbsfleet), yet the other routes (via Crewe/Basingstoke/Broxbourne/Billericay/Sevenoaks) are all electrified too. It seems fairly obvious that Hull's current main line needs electrification; if the Govt lack the cash right now, they could at least do the decent thing and tell us.

(Of course, Mrs May doesn't like telling anyone anything, and she seems to like the power of that. It's frustrating knowing that we have as PM a person who will do things that change our country without actually consulting anyone first - though of course that's not entirely new...)

 

[pemma]

Hull only has one main rail line in and out (unless you count the jaunt up the coast to Scarborough). Contrast this with Manchester, Edinburgh, Portsmouth, Cambridge, Southend and Ashford which all have multiple ways of getting in and out by rail. Most of these seem to have one primary route (e.g via Stoke/Newcastle/Guildford/Letchworth/Basildon/Ebbsfleet), yet the other routes (via Crewe/Basingstoke/Broxbourne/Billericay/Sevenoaks) are all electrified too. It seems fairly obvious that Hull's current main line needs electrification; if the Govt lack the cash right now, they could at least do the decent thing and tell us.

That comment makes it sound like you don't know much about Geography. There are no cities or large towns to the East of Hull, no cities or large towns to the North East of Hull, no cities or large towns directly North from Hull. While there's a wide river directly to the South of Hull so it makes sense to go west and then cross the river where it is narrower for going South.

 

[Class 170101]

While Hull is much larger than Windermere I get the impression that the primary reason for electrification for both is to free up diesel trains for other routes. It was originally to allow electric services between Hull and London but First have ordered bi-modes so the wires aren't as imperative now.

The Bi modes would still have been a sensible investment even if Hull was wired. Don't forget Hull TRains have been known to go via Hatfield and Stainforth or Hensall. Also on the tour of Lincolnshire or via March. None of which is anywhere near to being wired.

 

[Class 170101]

Surely the reality is more

a) electrification is proving a LOT more expensive than originally planned
b) electrification is proving to be a slower process than originally planned

Thus, with limited budgets and existing programmes being delayed, realistic timetables need to be incorporated. Many of these programmes are still an aspiration, but are delayed to a significant extent, needing alternative solutions for the immediate future

Bi-mode trains if ordered now are still upto 4 years away (AGA the most recent orderer of Bi-mode trains is 2019/2020). The schemes currently on the books even at NRs relatively slow pace is aiming for wiring sooner than that (albeit probably only just).

 

[lincolnshire]

The Bi modes would still have been a sensible investment even if Hull was wired. Don't forget Hull TRains have been known to go via Hatfield and Stainforth or Hensall. Also on the tour of Lincolnshire or via March. None of which is anywhere near to being wired.

I have even been with them to Cambridge the swapped to a train to Liverpool Street. Just a few weeks since they run to St. Pancras due to engineering work into Kings Cross.

They are have train will travel company.