Hull Trains 180s

[humbersidejim]

How close are we to a third unit being back in service? I assume at this point they can resume a full timetable?

It's interesting to see that the frustration and criticism on social media hasn't stopped, with two of Hull's MPs openly criticising them on Twitter.

 

[westv]

I trust HTs won't use this as an excuse to increase fares.

 

[robbeech]

How close are we to a third unit being back in service? I assume at this point they can resume a full timetable?

It's interesting to see that the frustration and criticism on social media hasn't stopped, with two of Hull's MPs openly criticising them on Twitter.

And why should it? It is costing customers thousands and thousands of pounds in lost work, stranding people for hours on end in different locations, extending peoples journey times by 200% and not refunding them to the same level as other TOCs do. They've had a hard time, and that is a shame given the reputation they once had but they continue to handle it poorly without any real consideration for their passengers and this has been going on months and months.

To comment on engine duty cycle, a little OT but goes with the comparison above between the 175 and 180 despite noticeable differences. An engine or multiples thereof running a train at a constant speed in excess of 100mph is not necessarily harder work for it than shorter distance lower speed runs. Infact in many cases the opposite is often true. Stop start work puts a lot of strain on the engines as they are forced to do more work to accelerate. Once a train reaches a speed, maintaining that speed whilst not effortless is certainly easier on the engine. We used to talk about higher mileage cars having only done "motorway miles" and the same is true of any engine in any form of transport to some degree.

 

[humbersidejim]

And why should it? It is costing customers thousands and thousands of pounds in lost work, stranding people for hours on end in different locations, extending peoples journey times by 200% and not refunding them to the same level as other TOCs do. They've had a hard time, and that is a shame given the reputation they once had but they continue to handle it poorly without any real consideration for their passengers and this has been going on months and months.

I absolutely agree with you. The level of ticket acceptance that has been arranged is wholly inadequate. Expecting passengers to travel via Sheffield, take road transport to Doncaster or wait in excess of an hour for a (presumably cheaper) VTEC service when other, more suitable services call, is to many travellers, unnaceptable.

For leisure passengers with 'loose' travel plans, catching "any Hull trains service" may be fine, but for those on tighter schedules, high spending business passengers for example, the alternative arrangements simply aren't up to the expected standards of rail travel.

On the one hand, it could be argued that the lack of ticket acceptance highlights the problems of a fragmented, privatised system. However my personal take is that Hull Trains, or more likely their parent First group, have tried to control costs via limited ticket acceptance at the expense of customer convience. I think it's going to cost them a lot more in terms of customer loyalty in the medium to long term. That's a real shame.

 

[43096]

I absolutely agree with you. The level of ticket acceptance that has been arranged is wholly inadequate. Expecting passengers to travel via Sheffield, take road transport to Doncaster or wait in excess of an hour for a (presumably cheaper) VTEC service when other, more suitable services call, is to many travellers, unnaceptable.

For leisure passengers with 'loose' travel plans, catching "any Hull trains service" may be fine, but for those on tighter schedules, high spending business passengers for example, the alternative arrangements simply aren't up to the expected standards of rail travel.

On the one hand, it could be argued that the lack of ticket acceptance highlights the problems of a fragmented, privatised system. However my personal take is that Hull Trains, or more likely their parent First group, have tried to control costs via limited ticket acceptance at the expense of customer convience. I think it's going to cost them a lot more in terms of customer loyalty in the medium to long term. That's a real shame.

I noticed this week, that ticket acceptance for a cancelled HT service (1030 off Hull) for Doncaster passengers was on the 1225 off Doncaster i.e. an hour's wait. As this train is a York starter, clearly this is being done to avoid overloading East Coast services. Sensible, really, for VTEC.

If you want open access operators, you need to accept the ticketing system. If we still had BR and Hull Trains was an open access operator, it would still be the same. If you want flexibility when it goes wrong, get an any operator ticket.

 

[185143]

I noticed this week, that ticket acceptance for a cancelled HT service (1030 off Hull) for Doncaster passengers was on the 1225 off Doncaster i.e. an hour's wait. As this train is a York starter, clearly this is being done to avoid overloading East Coast services. Sensible, really, for VTEC.

If you want open access operators, you need to accept the ticketing system. If we still had BR and Hull Trains was an open access operator, it would still be the same. If you want flexibility when it goes wrong, get an any operator ticket.

I agree in principle-but if someone travels from Hull to London, with the exception of the early VTEC train, then all direct services are provided by Hull Trains. So a passenger isn't specifically deciding to travel with HT, they're after a train to London. No different (to the average passenger) than a passenger at Leeds wishing to travel to London. They aren't choosing to travel VTEC, it's just VTEC happen to provide the majority of the service.

Yet if a VTEC ex Leeds is cancelled, it's a case of waiting 30/60 minutes for the next one-and recieving a significant amount of your fare back. At Hull, it's a case of travelling via Sheffield/road transport to wherever/a long wait at Doncaster, and receiving relatively little of your fare back. Easy to see why people get annoyed by that...

 

[Kite159]

I agree in principle-but if someone travels from Hull to London, with the exception of the early VTEC train, then all direct services are provided by Hull Trains. So a passenger isn't specifically deciding to travel with HT, they're after a train to London. No different (to the average passenger) than a passenger at Leeds wishing to travel to London. They aren't choosing to travel VTEC, it's just VTEC happen to provide the majority of the service.

Yet if a VTEC ex Leeds is cancelled, it's a case of waiting 30/60 minutes for the next one-and recieving a significant amount of your fare back. At Hull, it's a case of travelling via Sheffield/road transport to wherever/a long wait at Doncaster, and receiving relatively little of your fare back. Easy to see why people get annoyed by that...

At least Hull Trains have a better delay scheme than Grand Central

 

[humbersidejim]

Hull Trains' scheme is pretty similar to VTEC - I think the only difference is a lack of a full refund for longer delays:
https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/customer-services

If the all the many thousands who'd been delayed over the last couple of months actually knew they were entitled to money back and bothered to put a claim in, I think HT would likely go to greater lengths to ensure the majority of passengers arrived at their stated destination within the half hour.

 

[Impey0711]

Hopefully they are running a full service on 7th April I’m booked on 9:48 from KX and 18:36 from hull what happens if they cancel these take the first Doncaster train then a local train to hull and vice Versa on return

 

[Andrewh32]

Hopefully they are running a full service on 7th April I’m booked on 9:48 from KX and 18:36 from hull what happens if they cancel these take the first Doncaster train then a local train to hull and vice Versa on return

They specify different ticket acceptance with different services, sometimes via EMT to Sheffield then across, sometimes but not often with VTEC, sometimes road transport, sometimes earlier or later services, doesn't seem to be a logical pattern

 

[robbeech]

I think it’s whatever they can manage on the day. It’s often very early in the morning when they finalise the plans for that day meaning passengers find out very last minute of their journey is going to take over twice as long, leave the origin 2 hours early, 2 hours late or on the rare ocassion run to time. Very poor but we know this, and they know this. It’s a shame they are not prepared / not able to improve it.

 

[rich r]

I'm currently in London with a return Hull Trains ticket back to Selby for this afternoon. Looks like I'm only going as far as Doncaster by rail.

But at least they have listed all the cancelled or changed services on their website (and National Rail Enquiries) for the week so I was aware of this before I travelled down yesterday. Obviously though I wasn't aware when I booked the tickets a few weeks ago.

 

[rjchapma]

It looks like that from Thursday a Full service is back on (excepting the first northbound train of the day on Thursday, probably due to train positioning). I wonder if they are back to 4 units in operation, or are still at 3, so a fault will cause cancellations.

It's looking like GC now have the same problems as HT with lots of cancellations there. Are Bombardier at Crofton up to the job, or are parts really that constrained.

 

[rustbucket]

Suspect they will be living on a knife edge with only 3 units fit!

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone know when the 17:44 from London to Hull on Sunday 25th March was cancelled please?

edit: I think it was just a day or two before actually!

 

[rjchapma]

Does anyone know when the 17:44 from London to Hull on Sunday 25th March was cancelled please?

edit: I think it was just a day or two before actually!

Just the day before I think: their twitter feed shows this as the first tweet about that service @ 10.00am on the 24th

https://twitter.com/Hull_Trains/status/977590982773493760

 

[_toommm_]

More problems with the 180s, but this time with GC - 5A63 from the depot to Bradford was curtailed to Halifax 69 late due to a problem with the taction equipment with the following service down to Kings Cross starting 23 down.

 

[rjchapma]

It seems that Hull Trains have been running on 3 sets over the last few weeks, as todays 9.06 HUL - KGX has been terminated at Grantham. With a number of todays services cancelled following the failure of the set.
I guess they are down to 2 sets untill today's problem is fixed.
Any one know what the fault was?

 

[robbeech]

More doubled journey times today it seems then with diversion from Doncaster to Sheffield and down to St Pancras.

A little bit awkward this evening it seems. Ticket acceptance was in place on the 2005 VTEC but 10 minutes before departure that has been retracted and now they can only use the 2035 meaning all passengers will be bussed from Doncaster and there will be no call at Retford leaving KGX to RET passengers on Hull Trains only tickets no opportunity to get home this evening. Of course this is in no way surprising.

 

[IanXC]

More doubled journey times today it seems then with diversion from Doncaster to Sheffield and down to St Pancras.

A little bit awkward this evening it seems. Ticket acceptance was in place on the 2005 VTEC but 10 minutes before departure that has been retracted and now they can only use the 2035 meaning all passengers will be bussed from Doncaster and there will be no call at Retford leaving KGX to RET passengers on Hull Trains only tickets no opportunity to get home this evening. Of course this is in no way surprising.

I'm not sure what communication is like at Kings Cross but they absolutely have given Retford passengers advice.

19:50 London Kings Cross to Hull due 22:18 will be started from Doncaster.
It will no longer call at London Kings Cross, Grantham and Retford.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Additional Information:
Customers are to travel on Virgin Trains 2035 London Kings Cross to Doncaster service, arriving at 2222, also calling at Grantham at 2145 then to transfer on to buses at Doncaster at 2225 through to Hull, Brough, Howden and Selby.
Retford passengers should change at Newark, where taxis will be provided.
Last Updated :15/04/2018 19:40

 

[robbeech]

Advice at King’s Cross (a colleague was waiting for an unrelated service) was still to board the 2005. But VTEC staff disallowed that for whatever reason and then said to get the 2035. These messages weren’t clearly getting to passengers until shortly before the 2005 was due to depart. By all accounts they were told that they were unable to provide a service to Retford which has caused upset and concern for passengers. Of course we now know this to be untrue so not sure why they were saying that. My colleague boarded a GN service shortly after so I’m unsure how things on the ground went after that. It appears everyone will be getting home (all be it late but that can’t be helped).
Again, it is a communication issue between people involved sadly. There can often be 3 different bits of advice going on at the same time which doesn’t give anyone any confidence. Having been ‘stranded’* myself by Hull Trains more than once and having had to drive someone from Doncaster to London earlier in the year (before the snow) when the 2003 was cancelled and they refused to allow passengers on the later VTEC Service(s)

* of course, I wasn’t stranded in the true sense of the word as I got myself a taxi home so the more appropriate terminology may be ‘left to fend for myself’

 

[ainsworth74]

The interesting discussion on Hull Trains delay compensation policies was rather off-topic so I've moved it to a new thread which can be found here. Let's keep this one focused on the 180s and Hull Trains continuing woes with them.

Many thanks,
ainsworth74

PS Apologies to everyone that may have gotten a notification about their post being moved. My laptop hung at the worst possible moment and lead to me clicking the wrong button!

 

[robbeech]

So more trouble today and a revised (but sensible in the circumstances) timetable already in place for tomorrow.
I cannot fathom what is wrong with the trains. I’m not a train engineer by any means though I have mechanical engineering qualifications and understand how engines work as well as the next person and I can’t really comprehend repeated failures of this nature. I don’t know what the faults are in these units, and I don’t know if it’s the same thing over and over again or whether it is different faults each time but I struggle with the concept that they’re being fixed but breaking again.
The very fact that they’re reducing timetables means at least half of their stock is out of use. It’s such a mess for them really. Do they claim from the actual owners of the trains? I guess they don’t own them?

 

[rjchapma]

As a passenger the thing that is most frustrating is the lack of information about what's going on. Context on the problem helps understand the likely impacts. Their twitter feed has many people who are unhappy about the late information on alternative arrangements, and when those go via EMT. I've tried suggesting to their twitter people that they should provide context info, but the don't seem to take heed.

 

[anamyd]

Now there's a 4 car 180, announced alongside the Hull Trains HST!

 

[lincolnshire]

Now there's a 4 car 180, announced alongside the Hull Trains HST!

The 4 car 180 set is one of the four trains with a coach missing (think its set 180009 )and I think you will find the missing coach is the one that had the fire below it at Grantham a couple of months ago. Its been re-assembled as a four coach set while the missing coach is repaired may be?

 

[59CosG95]

The 4 car 180 set is one of the four trains with a coach missing (think its set 180009 )and I think you will find the missing coach is the one that had the fire below it at Grantham a couple of months ago. Its been re-assembled as a four coach set while the missing coach is repaired may be?

I've just been on 180109, and its central coach is the central coach from 180113 - so I suspect that it has been re-lengthened to 5 cars since then it was indeed running as a 4-car.