Hull Trains cancellations due to acute shortage of available rolling stock

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by humbersidejim, 12 Oct 2018.

  1. talltim

    talltim Established Member

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    The original point was about the original design and build quality, not maintenance. Angel, as the owners, are the ones that would need to talk to Althom.
    Sale of Goods act 1979
     
  2. rustbucket

    rustbucket Member

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    Given one set over nights in London anyway I'm sure Bounds Green could be made to work for a fee!
     
  3. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    And finally the last one to run today terminated short at Peterborough due to signal issues. 2030 starting short at Peterborough. Passengers adviced to catch a service 24 minutes earlier from King’s Cross. Or one 90! Minutes later likely getting people home well over 2 hours late.

    I assume they don’t have staff hours available to get to king’s Cross and back.
     
  4. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    How long will FirstGroup continue to bankroll this kind of performance?
     
  5. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    The issue with the 2030 is the signalboxes on the Hull branch, which close earlier than is ideal. I'm not sure of the exact times, but it doesn't leave much leeway for late running on that service. Hence HT will do what is necessary to get the train back to Hull, as if it is more than about 40 minutes late, it risks being terminated at Doncaster.
     
  6. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    It's only bankrolling if HT aren't making money. A look at the loadings on many services would suggest that all is not lost.

    180109 is back in service today, as a 4-car set. Vehicle 55913 is still under repair for a few weeks yet. All services except the 0726 KGX-HUL are booked to run. Mitigation measures are in place to manage the loadings on its booked services.
     
  7. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Would it be economical to keep the signalbox open for later on the Hill branch? Obviously the Hull Trains would pay for it if they were the only beneficiaries.
     
  8. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    The 0726 is only cancelled due to it not being down there after the repairs too. Apparently all trains are back in service. Let’s hope this is how it stays.

    If they’re the only trains running then surely they would only need some of the boxes open and run much longer blocks? Is that feasible? I don’t know the layout. Either way HT wouldn’t pay if it were £1. The 2030 is late quite frequently, I know this as it often causes me to miss my last connection home leaving me stranded with HT unprepared to do anything about it (of course I’m able to sort it myself but have had to share taxis funded by me with people before and give people lifts when I’ve had my car at Worksop)
     
  9. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    With the Gilberdyke resignalling now complete and live (give or take some operating troubles such as the issues affecting services yesterday evening) the signals on that stretch are controlled from York, so operation later in the day will be possible in due course. This will mean that incidents like yesterday's will not necessitate the cancellation of the 2030 for very much longer as it can run later.

    I don't see how HT are unprepared to do anything about a missed connection - they are obliged to get you home if they cause you to miss it and you bring it to their attention. The crew should be able to contact Control, and the Twitter team can keep an eye on things thereafter, in theory.
     
  10. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Obliged or not they do not do this. They have left people stranded late at night on more than one ocassion.
     
  11. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Wishful thinking! Until such time as the ORR starts enforcing operators' obligations with heavy fines and damaging press releases, this nonsense of it being the operator's obligation, and yet the operator refusing to do it, will continue.

    It's no different to wilful evasion of the fare by a passenger, which is treated as a (relatively speaking) serious crime - and yet, thanks to the ridiculousness of what is and isn't on the statute books, it's merely a "civil matter" when a company does it.

    A 'wilful evasion of debt/obligations' offence for companies is clearly overdue. Perhaps then companies would actually take these kinds of things as seriously as they take fare evasion.
     
  12. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Well rather unsurprisingly the 1033 failed and the first wave of cancellations and 3 hour bus and taxi sagas begin yet again.
     
  13. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member

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    "13:48 London Kings Cross to Hull due 16:18 will be cancelled.
    This is due to a broken down train.
    Additional Information
    Passengers are advised to go to St Pancras station and are allowed to take the 1346 or 1416 GTR service to Peterborough, onward road transport will be provided on arrival at Peterborough.
    Grantham and Retford passengers are advised to take the 1406 LNER departure calling at Grantham at 1519 and Newark at 1532, on arrival at Newark North Gate passengers for Retford will be provided with replacement road transport back to Retford, please see station staff."

    https://www.journeycheck.com/hulltrains/

    So if you are going to Grantham you'll be a few minutes late, if you're going to Retford you might be half an hour late, depending on how quickly you can get into a taxi at Newark North Gate. But if you're going to Doncaster or beyond you'll probably be 3 hours late. The 1416 arrives at Peterborough at 1539, so let's assume that the bus leaves Peterborough for Hull at about 1600. It's a good 3 hours by bus so perhaps a 1900 arrival.
     
  14. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    They are at the mercy of LNER as regards how many passengers can be carried, and on which services. It's not ideal but every contingency plan is the best available on the day.
     
  15. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Corrected that for you.
     
  16. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I dunno, they'll be paying a *lot* of 100% Delay Repay...
     
  17. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Lots of 50% too. They don’t pay out 100% of a return on 2 hours. Passengers are frequently over 3 hours late on one portion of the journey
     
  18. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member

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    The way they've treated passengers (in particular with regards to cancelling the last train or breaking the last connections), it wouldn't surprise me to learn that some of them have taken the company to Small Claims Court too. Likely anyone who did would win too - unless Hull Trains paid a them a settlement.
     
  19. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    And you would be wrong.
     
  20. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Of course. But it’s absolutely how passengers feel. Let down day after day.

    Social media staff sending unrelated messages to celebrities instead of answering questions as to why the buses and taxis haven’t turned up and why people are going to be 3 hours late alter again.
     
  21. Wolfie

    Wolfie Established Member

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    I am afraid that the answer is litigation. They can't and won't ignore a Court...
     
  22. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    In my experience Hull Trains are awful when it comes to delay repay. They refuse to pay out when a combination of tickets is used.
     
  23. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    They refuse to pay out when a single ticket is used until pushed.
     
  24. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Once again after passengers were promised a full service (with the exception the first northbound as it is displaced) operating today and once again they’re cancelling services. Why don’t they stop with the lies and just say in advance “guys we can’t run these services” ? What makes their minds tick in such a way that they have to keep letting people down every day.
     
  25. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member

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    It's getting to be a bit of a broken record this one.

    0823 from Hull reported full and standing from Hull.
     
  26. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    I also think the reason of "more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time" should be retired, as frankly, it's a half-truth, if not a total lie. Class 180s are notorious for being unreliable and frequently breaking down and subsequently needing repairs. It would be more truthful to say 'This is due to the unreliability of the rolling stock', or 'This is due to a lack of serviceable rolling stock'. If they got Grand Central's 180s, this situation wouldn't exist, would it?! I do wonder whether Hull Trains' 180s will head for the scrapheap (or perhaps the scavenge for parts heap!) after they are replaced by the 802s on Hull Trains.
     
  27. HullRailMan

    HullRailMan Member

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    Not sure where paeesengers were 'promised' a full service. The twitter feed has been saying that services are scheduled to run when asked a day or two in advance which is correct at the time. That isn't a promise.
     
  28. HullRailMan

    HullRailMan Member

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    The most worrying aspect this week is that the unit that returned to service on Friday has been out for repair for almost two months yet lasted just an hour back in service.
     
  29. rjchapma

    rjchapma Member

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    I asked directly that question, and ZG on twitter said full service would resume except for the first north bound train .

    https://twitter.com/Hull_Trains/status/1071107100003180549?s=19
     
  30. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    People just want to know where they stand. They say everyday that services will run. You can split hair over whether it’s a promise or not but the fact remains that they say they will run knowing there’s a huge likelyhood they won’t unless they are so naive that they believe that they’ve suddenly fixed the trains. And by they I mean management not the social media team they just do as they’re told.

    It’s because they haven’t mended the train. I’m not suggesting that it’s been sat somewhere with nothing being done to it for 2 months but when all said and done they haven’t mended the train. And this happens to all of the trains.
    I would love to see a history of the fault reports and a history of the maintenance though I suppose even a FOI request wouldn’t allow that.
     

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