Hull Trains cancellations due to chronic shortage of available rolling stock

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by humbersidejim, 12 Oct 2018.

  1. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    Given that this thread is now nearly a month old (and still running) isn't it time it was renamed "... due to chronic shortage of available rolling stock?"
     
  2. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    Unfortunately, until such time that all four HT 180’s are available for service, (or suitable alternative stock resourced), the current malaise will continue.

    Roll on the IETs
     
  3. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    And the subsequent 299 page thread about their seats. :lol:
     
  4. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    Apparently HT are supposed to be getting 2x 2+5 HST sets on loan from GWR in the near future
     
  5. rustbucket

    rustbucket Member

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    It does look suspiciously like 1 fully functioning unit and one on 3 engines again

    Oh dear!
     
  6. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    That’s my understanding too. The sooner the better.
     
    Last edited: 9 Nov 2018
  7. westv

    westv Established Member

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    My Monday morning AP ticket has gone up almost 19% for January. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: 9 Nov 2018
  8. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    I don’t follow what this refers to sorry (I’m likely missing something obvious)
     
  9. westv

    westv Established Member

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    Well clearly they would appear to be trying to recover some of their delay repay costs rather than trying to sweeten things with passengers.
     
  10. takno

    takno Established Member

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    I think it's the original post that's missing the word "up" tbh.
     
  11. westv

    westv Established Member

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    Oh yes! :oops::lol:
     
  12. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    That would be it.

    Maybe they haven’t allocated as many yet. Is that an AP to King’s Cross ?
     
  13. HullRailMan

    HullRailMan Member

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    Hull Trains not running ANY trains again today. A combination of ECML engineering works and the Northern strike means the alternatives all involve coaches to/from Peterborough then GTR to Kings Cross.

    Journey times were already extended but some of the alternative plans sound awful. The 1804 from Hull was due in Kings Cross at 2125. The alternative arrives at 2343!! Glad I’m not travelling today.
     
  14. Max

    Max Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Wow, this is becoming shambolic. Not quite sure how they've ended up with zero functional trains today. Yesterday there was one in full service - which ran the 1548 KGX-DON then 1803 DON-KGX and 2030 KGX-HUL - and one on three engines and not able to work south of Doncaster. Wonder if they decided to cut their losses today given the diversions are already extending journey times? Or maybe they were terrified that one of their units would end up breaking down in rural Lincs and blocking the joint line. :lol:

    Seriously though, they need to get these HSTs up and running ASAP!
     
  15. HullRailMan

    HullRailMan Member

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    The 3 engine unit that was running shuttles yesterday failed at Doncaster. However, judging by what they are running tomorrow it seems 2 units are back in service again.
     
  16. Max

    Max Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/womans-fury-hull-trains-leaves-2206249

    Not sure about the precise details but more bad publicity.
     
    Last edited: 10 Nov 2018
  17. rjchapma

    rjchapma Member

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  18. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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  19. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    The Hull to Doncaster shuttle which failed at Doncaster Friday attempted to leave Doncaster (ECS) at around 2120. It left platform 6 very slowly. Blocked the line for 10 minutes causing minor delays to everything then slowly crawled back into p6. From what I could hear as I had a walk past there was only 1 engine running out of 5.
     
  20. matacaster

    matacaster Member

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    Whilst one admires Hull Trains for attempting to provide a service from Hull to London, trying to do it with 4 perpetually unreliable units which appear to suffer from over-use and inadequate maintenance (maybe inexperienced maintenance staff (on this class), lack of opportunity to perform proper maintenance or even perhaps inadequate funding for that maintenence? - anyone any ideas?), the time has surely come for the regulators to impose a stiff fine and force the pace of remedial action. They have clearly been in an unsustainable situation for some time.
     
  21. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    Although I can understand why this is being suggested, I can’t see what it would actually achieve? I’m aware of some of the background to the current situation, but am not at liberty to share that on an Internet forum.

    What I can say is that HT people are doing their level best, in very difficult circumstances to provide A service. Hindsight is a wonderful thing & with that, it’s probable that a fifth 180 would have been sourced when GWR released them, but we are where we are.
     
  22. DaiGog

    DaiGog Member

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    How fast is the pace of remedial action? Is it slower than it could possibly be?
     
  23. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I mean they have new trains on order due for delivery next year. I'm not sure how they could speed things up any further than that?
     
  24. matacaster

    matacaster Member

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    One must ask (I don't know the answer, perhaps there are none available?) why they can't borrow or lease a fifth 180 now. A 5th unit would allow them to do proper repairs in a reasonable time rather than desperate attempts to do a quick fix each night which is clearly not having the desired effects.
     
  25. matacaster

    matacaster Member

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    From memory, I could be wrong, 180's have never been a wild success on the reliability and availability stakes. I believe that GWR had better availability than other operators, but that may well have been due to better maintenance regime, clued up engineers and less oppressive operational schedule, all of which Hull trains likely didn't have at their maintenance base. It appears that Hull trains took a gamble that it would be cheaper to only hire 4 trains and they could wing it should problems arise. I have every sympathy for the maintainers asked to do an impossible job due to lack of time and also the train staff who will doubtless be blamed and harangued by some of the more painful members of the public, but I would remind you it is the passengers who are suffering most. I may be wrong, but to me this was an entirely foreseeable problem which the directors and managers of Hull Trains bear some culpability for and for that the business should be fined to seek to avoid they or other operators doing this again.

    I would add that I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Daft had heavily leaned on Hull Trains, but common sense should have prevailed.

    I ave absolutely NO inside knowledge, so my above comments rely on extrapolation of the public information available and some educated guesswork (or not!) on my part.
     
    Last edited: 11 Nov 2018
  26. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    There’s a few reasons. Firstly, there are only 14 class 180’s, the other 10 being operated by Grand Central. They need most of theirs for daily service & being 180’s, they are not the most reliable units. Not sure what the daily requirements are for GC (I’m sure someone will know), but I’m sure the option will have been explored.

    I think it should be said that whilst the last month or so (and the difficulties experienced by HT earlier in the year) aren’t good for anyone, the company has built up a solid customer base, on a route that more established operators had pretty much given up on. There aren’t any easy solutions, primarily due to the lack of suitable 125mph capable diesel trains. Those options that are available are difficult/expensive to achieve & will take time/money.

    HT will have to rebuild a lot of customer trust, that’s true. But to infer they’ve been attempting to run a service, when up until recently it’s been one of the better ones in the UK is (in my opinion) wise of the mark and somewhat unfair.
     
  27. _toommm_

    _toommm_ Established Member

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    IIRC Grand Central run on 8 or 9 peak requirement, including the one lent to Northern in the morning and evening peak.
     
  28. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    GWR had better luck with the 180’s for a several reasons; a) they were new to GWR b) they were all together & c) experience in maintaining the things. Even on GWR they were hardly brilliant & a lot of work was done there as I recall.

    I agree it’s the customer that is bearing the burden of this issue, and as I said previously, hindsight bring what it is, a fifth set would have probably been desirable. It has to be remembered though that HT actually acquired 4 x 222’s for the operation, which were moved at the behest of the DfT to the Midland Main Line, and given the need for a 125mph capable diesel, 180’s were about the only choice on the table.

    On that basis, I can’t see where HT senior managers are directly accountable, as much of where we are today has been foisted on the business by the mandarins in Whitehall.
     
  29. matacaster

    matacaster Member

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    Thanks for that, I have updated my previous post to give some credit (negatively so!) to DafT for the situation.

    I would be interested to know whether any operator HAS to sign up to what DafT say on stock allocation or whether they can refuse? Would that mean they could not continue operating or did they perhaps agree to the stock moves when they perhaps shouldn't have in hindsight?

    Have Hull Trains considered hiring some experienced Class 180 engineers from GWR (if they were amenable) to help to resolve the issues?
     
  30. Clarence Yard

    Clarence Yard Member

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    They have and one very experienced ex GWR engineer from OOC was recently spending his time at Crofton. It was so bad up there that he quit after only a short while.

    I haven’t caught up with what has caused the latest issues but the sooner they get their hands on an HST, the better. GC did not have any units available, thanks to work they are doing on theirs.
     

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