Huyton four-tracking as part of the Northern Hub

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PhilipW

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Now that the four-tracking has been approved as part of last week's announcement, does anyone have details of the proposed scheme

1) Will 4-tracks extend from Edge Hill to Huyton Junction ? or is it less ?
2) Which stations will now have 4 platforms - Huyton, Roby, Broad Green, Wavertree Technology Park ?
3) How will the 4 tracks be organised
-- northern pair for St Helens and southern pair for Newton-le-Willows ?
-- or -- one pair for 'slow' and one pair for 'fast'.
If it the latter then I presume not all the stations will need extra platforms.

Can I also assume the 4-tracking will be done in time for the start of electric services in December 2014 ?
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Now that the four-tracking has been approved as part of last week's announcement, does anyone have details of the proposed scheme

Which particular approval document are you referring to?
I don't think I have seen anything specifically on this in the DfT stuff.
Unless NR were planning to do it anyway, I can't see it being ready in 2014.
I should think it all depends on the signalling changes going in.
 

PhilipW

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Quote from the CP5 HLOS document

Northern Hub and Manchester
 Liverpool – Manchester track capacity (Huyton – Northern Hub),
 Manchester Airport fourth platform (Northern Hub)
 Castlefield corridor additional capacity and additional through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly (Northern Hub),
 Rochdale turnback (Northern Hub), and
 Depot and stabling enhancement for extra trains

That's all I have. As the Northern Hub was approved in its entirety and 4-tracking some track around Huyton was part of it, I presume that is what it is.
I started this thread to try and elicit some clarity perchance anyone from the North West or within the industry has more detail.
 
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driver_m

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I'd guess it would be from Huyton Jn to somewhere between Broad Green and Roby. There is a road and bridge running between the track and the start of the M62 at Broad Green which uses part of the trackbed. It would need some hefty alterations to fully four track Broad Green again, and have it run to Edge Hill.
With the services that are planned across the Chat Moss, it would be better to have all stoppers on whatever are the slow lines as there are no other overtaking opportunities between Liverpool and Manchester via Chat Moss at the moment
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Quote from the CP5 HLOS document

Northern Hub and Manchester
 Liverpool – Manchester track capacity (Huyton – Northern Hub),
 Manchester Airport fourth platform (Northern Hub)
 Castlefield corridor additional capacity and additional through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly (Northern Hub),
 Rochdale turnback (Northern Hub), and
 Depot and stabling enhancement for extra trains

That's all I have. As the Northern Hub was approved in its entirety and 4-tracking some track around Huyton was part of it, I presume that is what it is.
I started this thread to try and elicit some clarity perchance case anyone from the North West or within the industry has more detail.

You are quoting from the "Illustrative Infrastructure Enhancements" for CP5.
It is not specific approval for a scheme - it's up to NR to come back with a plan within the cost allowed. Same with all the Northern Hub schemes.
Not saying it won't happen, but there's another year of CP5 iteration before any of this is certain.
 

cle

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Will there be crossovers so a fast Blackpool/Scotland train could overtake a Wigan stopper on the inner line at Roby for example, and then cross after Huyton?
 

cle

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And would this new route provide a quicker journey time from London/Crewe to Liverpool, rather than via Runcorn?
 

cle

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New route?

Quadrupling Roby to Huyton Junction isn't new route. Others may deliver 90mph on DSE prior to 2014, but this won't make the route via Earlestown quicker than Weaver - Runcorn - Edge Hill

New route I meant the then-possibility of a Pendo going via Earlestown with the new wiring.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Diversionary route possibly, normal no as Earlestown is a right killer speed wise.

While we are on the subject, are 390s cleared over the Winwick Jn-Earlestown sections on to the Chat Moss line?
I know they have been 57-hauled Manchester-Liverpool, but I've never seen any reference to the Warrington connections.
It's a very sharp curve facing Manchester, not so bad facing Liverpool.
One day they'll need to go this way...
 

John55

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While we are on the subject, are 390s cleared over the Winwick Jn-Earlestown sections on to the Chat Moss line?
I know they have been 57-hauled Manchester-Liverpool, but I've never seen any reference to the Warrington connections.
It's a very sharp curve facing Manchester, not so bad facing Liverpool.
One day they'll need to go this way...

I have travelled several times over this line in a 390 both ways. Including a never to be forgotten occasion when two class 57 failures occurred before Crewe when travelling towards London.
 

Bevan Price

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I'd guess it would be from Huyton Jn to somewhere between Broad Green and Roby. There is a road and bridge running between the track and the start of the M62 at Broad Green which uses part of the trackbed. It would need some hefty alterations to fully four track Broad Green again, and have it run to Edge Hill.

Plus Wavertree Technology Park station has blocked any 4 tracking in that area.
 

John55

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Plus Wavertree Technology Park station has blocked any 4 tracking in that area.

Not really such an obstacle as there is effectively at least 6 tracks width there with the former line from Olive Mount Junction which flew over the L&M main line passing on the north side of the station. There would have to be a bit (well quite a lot) of embankment digging out and possible bridge rebuilding but there is room to convert Wavertree TP into 2 island platforms relatively easily.

Moving the M62, Queens Drive and Broadgreen Rd or the solid stone cutting further east is a more serious matter.
 
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