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HVAC on Caledonian Sleeper

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Lizzy_1990

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Sorry if I missed any pre-existing threads on this, but I think it is a pretty specific issue. I know precious little about trains, let alone the Caledonian sleeper. I have only ever been on open coach trains in the UK. Since Covid numbers are falling, I am thinking about showing my partner around Scotland and we both prefer train travel to planes. However, I am concerned about the remaining covid risk now that mask rules have been dropped in the UK, even on public transport (it's different here in Austria).
So, initially, I thought the sleeper would then be a good option, with only the two of us within the compartment, but then I got worried about the HVAC system and the danger of aerosoles from other passengers finding their way into the compartment. I would really appreciate it if somebody could tell me how this usually works and specifically on the Caledonian sleeper - does the air that gets taken from the train and re-distributed get collected and distributed throughout the coaches when there's multiple closed compartments within a coach? Or does every compartment have its own little closed system, where the air only stems from that compartment and from outside the train?
 
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Doomotron

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Sorry if I missed any pre-existing threads on this, but I think it is a pretty specific issue. I know precious little about trains, let alone the Caledonian sleeper. I have only ever been on open coach trains in the UK. Since Covid numbers are falling, I am thinking about showing my partner around Scotland and we both prefer train travel to planes. However, I am concerned about the remaining covid risk now that mask rules have been dropped in the UK, even on public transport (it's different here in Austria).
So, initially, I thought the sleeper would then be a good option, with only the two of us within the compartment, but then I got worried about the HVAC system and the danger of aerosoles from other passengers finding their way into the compartment. I would really appreciate it if somebody could tell me how this usually works and specifically on the Caledonian sleeper - does the air that gets taken from the train and re-distributed get collected and distributed throughout the coaches when there's multiple closed compartments within a coach? Or does every compartment have its own little closed system, where the air only stems from that compartment and from outside the train?
Are you both vaccinated?
 

185143

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Sorry if I missed any pre-existing threads on this, but I think it is a pretty specific issue. I know precious little about trains, let alone the Caledonian sleeper. I have only ever been on open coach trains in the UK. Since Covid numbers are falling, I am thinking about showing my partner around Scotland and we both prefer train travel to planes. However, I am concerned about the remaining covid risk now that mask rules have been dropped in the UK, even on public transport (it's different here in Austria).
So, initially, I thought the sleeper would then be a good option, with only the two of us within the compartment, but then I got worried about the HVAC system and the danger of aerosoles from other passengers finding their way into the compartment. I would really appreciate it if somebody could tell me how this usually works and specifically on the Caledonian sleeper - does the air that gets taken from the train and re-distributed get collected and distributed throughout the coaches when there's multiple closed compartments within a coach? Or does every compartment have its own little closed system, where the air only stems from that compartment and from outside the train?
Life's too short to worry about such things.

Get onboard, and enjoy the trip!
 

O L Leigh

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Logic would dictate that you’re at greater risk in an open coach where you could be sharing the space with many more people than would be the case on a sleeper coach. Also, aerosols in an open coach would not necessarily be filtered through the HVAC before the air reaches you.

I would guess that each coach has a common HVAC system rather than one per cabin, so there is the potential for the atmosphere to be shared. How the air is treated is something only a person technically familiar with the stock can answer. It may be that the HVAC has HEPA filtration, so you’d be fine.

I hope you don’t mind me saying, but I feel that you’re over-thinking it.
 

richa2002

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Hate to sound rude but this level of obsessing over the minimal dangers of Covid should be far more of a concern to you than Covid itself. It's time to live your life like I assume you did before in the face of cold and flu viruses...!
 

AlterEgo

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I’ve no idea about the HVAC system but train travel is the least of your worries if you plan on travelling and doing things in foreign countries. Relax and enjoy the trip and try not to think about covid.
 

43066

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However, I am concerned about the remaining covid risk now that mask rules have been dropped in the UK, even on public transpo

I’m not sure this statement stacks up when cases have been higher in countries with mask rules still in place - Scotland being a case in point.

As others have said life really is too short to waste it worrying about what is a mild illness for the vast majority of people who catch it.
 

biko

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I think the replies in this thread are quite judgmental and not helpful to the OP. Everyone just assumes that the OP is healthy and does not belong to the sizeable group of vulnerable people for whom covid is quite a bit more than just a flu or cold! Covid is not gone, although the UK tries to deny its existence nowadays.

I don't have knowledge on the Sleeper unfortunately, but I would advise the OP to use FFP2 masks on a day train if the sleeper system are not considered safe enough.
 

the sniper

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Given we don't know the OPs circumstances, it might be worth us avoiding a page of comments 'just don't worry about it/masks are tyrannous' and just answer their question where possible. They might want to consider an FFP3 mask though, if they're not already using them.
 

Liverpool 507

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Mark 5 carriages have air conditioning HEPA filters which are fitted to the main AC unit beneath the solebar. As it is a modern carriage, the air circulation/filtration process will be a frequent cycle.
 

yorkie

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Sorry if I missed any pre-existing threads on this, but I think it is a pretty specific issue. I know precious little about trains, let alone the Caledonian sleeper. I have only ever been on open coach trains in the UK. Since Covid numbers are falling, I am thinking about showing my partner around Scotland and we both prefer train travel to planes. However, I am concerned about the remaining covid risk now that mask rules have been dropped in the UK, even on public transport (it's different here in Austria).
If you don't trust the protection offered by vaccines, you can choose to wear an effective tight fitting FFP2/3 mask if you wish. It makes absolutely no difference to you what other people are wearing.

I understand Austria requires masks however many neighbouring countries have accepted that everyone will be exposed to SARS-CoV-2 and that delaying infections is pointless.

I'm in neighbouring Czech Republic right now and hardly anyone is wearing masks. In fact I don't think I have seen a single mask worn all day and I have travelled hundreds of miles, on many trains, today.

It was the same in Hungary when I was there earlier this month; on the train from Budapest to Vienna almost everyone was unmasked until the border station where we entered Austria.

And indeed it was the same in Slovakia when I was there last week.

By all means wear a tight fitting effective mask if you wish to. A small number of people in the UK choose to do this and that's fine. An FFP3 offers almost 100 per cent protection, providing it is worn, stored and handled correctly. There is no need for anyone to mandate what anyone else should wear, given everyone has the ability to make such decisions for themselves.

So, initially, I thought the sleeper would then be a good option, with only the two of us within the compartment, but then I got worried about the HVAC system and the danger of aerosoles from other passengers finding their way into the compartment. I would really appreciate it if somebody could tell me how this usually works and specifically on the Caledonian sleeper - does the air that gets taken from the train and re-distributed get collected and distributed throughout the coaches when there's multiple closed compartments within a coach? Or does every compartment have its own little closed system, where the air only stems from that compartment and from outside the train?
I don't think there is much chance of an infection through the air conditioning system on the sleeper.

However I can guarantee that you will be exposed to SARS-CoV-2 particles, multiple times, during your lifetime. We all will be, wherever we are in the world. There is absolutely no way to avoid exposure eventually, no matter how hard people try.
 
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Watershed

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There isn't a dedicated HVAC unit or system for each berth. The supply comes from a unit which supplies the whole coach. There is a degree of recirculation as with all air conditioning systems, but the air is replenished an average of every 5 minutes, as with most other modern A/C systems.

However, I would point out that if you are worried about Covid on the sleeper, you probably want to consider about the risk in hotels and on whatever mode of transport you use to get to the UK, as the risk will be similar if not higher there.

You may also wish to wear an FFP2/N95/FFP3 mask if you are particularly concerned - this provides a high level of protection even if others are not wearing a mask, though exposure to Covid is inevitable at some point. And although there is no mask mandate anymore in any part of the UK, some people do still wear masks, so you will not be outliers if you do so.
 

43066

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Covid is not gone, although the UK tries to deny its existence nowadays.

It has not gone and it never will be gone! Anyone stating otherwise is either delusional or lying. Accepting the need to live with this virus is not the same thing as denying it exists.
 

yorkie

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It does with a longer exposure, but this is not the thread to discuss that.
That's not true; if you are wearing an FFP3 mask you are protected. Of course it's not possible for someone to live their entire life wearing such a mask the whole time, but for as long as you are wearing one...

It has not gone and it never will be gone! Anyone stating otherwise is either delusional or lying. Accepting the need to live with this virus is not the same thing as denying it exists.
Absolutely; anyone who denies that SARS-CoV-2 is rapidly becoming the 5th endemic Human Coronavirus is simply not being realistic.

It's very much here to stay, just like viruses such as HCoV-OC43, which likely caused the pandemic (originally attributed to influenza) around 1889.

Everyone is going to get it, literally everyone. We simply need to accept that, and move on.
 

biko

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This is getting quite off-topic, so this will be my last contribution.
It has not gone and it never will be gone! Anyone staying otherwise is either delusional or lying. Accepting the need to live with this virus is not the same as denying it exists.
Indeed, but living with the virus means taking some sensible and easy precautions to protect others and reduce the number of cases. Wearing masks can be one of those, but also meeting outdoors and doing something about ventilation. In the UK (also over here in the Netherlands btw), most people do as if the world is the same as pre-covid, which it is not unfortunately.
That's not true; if you are wearing an FFP3 mask you are protected. Of course it's not possible for someone to live their entire life wearing such a mask the whole time, but for as long as you are wearing one...
With FFP3 you're indeed very very well protected (nearly 100%). FFP2 works pretty well for some hours, but if others also wear masks the risk is reduced quite a bit further.
 

43066

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Indeed, but living with the virus means taking some sensible and easy precautions to protect others and reduce the number of cases. Wearing masks can be one of those, but also meeting outdoors and doing something about ventilation. In the UK (also over here in the Netherlands btw), most people do as if the world is the same as pre-covid, which it is not unfortunately.

Wearing let alone mandating loose fitting masks is not a sensible and easy precaution, as we have seen all over the world. It is nothing more than an ineffective piece of theatre. The fact the world is going back to normal despite the protests of those with a vested interest in prolonging the situation is a very good thing. I am absolutely living my life as I did pre Covid and would encourage others to follow suit.
 

the sniper

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With FFP3 you're indeed very very well protected (nearly 100%). FFP2 works pretty well for some hours, but if others also wear masks the risk is reduced quite a bit further.

I by no means preach the same vociferous message as Yorkie, but the time for mask wearing (in often the literal loosest sense) as a general rule for all has come to an end now.

Unless anyone knows any different, it seems Liverpool 507 and Watershed have provided the OP their answer.
 

yorkie

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This is getting quite off-topic, so this will be my last contribution.
As you appear to be misinformed, that's no bad thing.
Indeed, but living with the virus means taking some sensible and easy precautions to protect others and reduce the number of cases
You misunderstand; the virus will continue to circulate at high levels until we reach a state of endemic equilibrium.

The only way to reach endemic equilibrium is for people to be exposed to the virus.

If you were successful in reducing cases now, you would only delay the infections, until the winter season.

Everyone is going to be exposed to SARS-CoV-2 multiple times in our lifetimes; this is no different to other similar viruses.

By all means implement whatever protections you want, if you wish to delay exposure to the virus.
. Wearing masks can be one of those, but also meeting outdoors and doing something about ventilation. In the UK (also over here in the Netherlands btw), most people do as if the world is the same as pre-covid, which it is not unfortunately.
The UK is no different to many other countries; in fact I would go further and say that countries I have been in recently have been much more "normal" than the UK. The idea that Austria is doing things correctly and the UK is an outlier is absolutely absurd and extremely wide of the mark.

The UK does far more testing than sensible countries and has a far higher proportion of people wearing masks (nearly all of the ineffective, loose fitting kind) compared to many other countries where people take a far more pragmatic approach and are simply living lives 100% normally.

It is Austria and countries west of there which are not yet accepting reality and are refusing to accept endemic equilibrium as inevitable. The UK, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe are the more forward thinking countries who re acting correctly and appropriately.

Countries like Denmark are leading the way.

With FFP3 you're indeed very very well protected (nearly 100%). FFP2 works pretty well for some hours, but if others also wear masks the risk is reduced quite a bit further.
Its up to each person to choose whether to be almost 100% protected (by wearing an FFP3 providing it's worn, handled and stored correctly and replaced regularly etc), or get close to that with FFP2, or indeed wear a flimsy, loose fitting ineffective mask or nothing.

Everyone can make their own choice; it does not impact on others because everyone has that choice and in any case , wearing an effective mask merely delays exposure to another occasion.

Ultimately we cannot avoid exposure, it is absolutely inevitable that we will be exposed multiple times in our lifetimes.

Once sufficient people have a high enough level of immunity, we will reach a state of endemic equilibrium.

We went through the same process with many other similar viruses, such as OC43.
 
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