Hypothetical: rail companies not accepting cash

35B

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Or how about just not worrying about it, because we never used to worry about it?
Because we never used to need to worry about Covid? I'm in the camp that is sorry that we're losing the use of cash, but I have no problem for my sake and that of those serving me in trying to use contactless technologies just now.
 
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fishquinn

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Or how about just not worrying about it, because we never used to worry about it?
My approach exactly - at the moment I'm using cash about as often as before (ie not often at all and only when I end up with some) but for a lot of (usually) older people they really don't want to use anything other than what they've been used to for all their lives and that hasn't changed from my observations
 

Journeyman

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Well it's reassuring that you can, with 100% certainty, guarantee that the virus cannot be transferred by handling cash.
Honestly, I can't understand how anyone manages to live with the level of fear and paranoia you're displaying. I can live a completely guilt free life in this regard, because I'm not disgustingly unhygienic. Even if you are, the chances of you actually spreading this about are still tiny, and the chances of killing someone tinier still.
 

Hadders

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So how much extra on your ticket price wold you be willing to pay to use a TVM that dispenses hand sanitizer after every ticket?
You could always position a sanitiser dispenser adjacent to the TVM. Fair play to GTR at Stevenage they’ve got sanitiser dispensers at the top of the stairs leading to the platforms.
 

Tetchytyke

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So how much extra on your ticket price wold you be willing to pay to use a TVM that dispenses hand sanitizer after every ticket?
A dispenser mounted on the side of the machine, which you can use if you want to? You can measure the cost in pence.

As for the discussion, remember that there is no legal right to insist a retailer accepts cash. If railways want to go cash free, like London Buses did (and like Bus Vannin did during lockdown) it is a commercial decision for them to make.

I think cash needs to remain an option for the most vulnerable people. But other than in the pub last Saturday, I can't remember the last time I used cash to buy anything.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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I understand that TfL have taped up the cash slot on many, if not all, of their constituent networks' station ticket machines. Certainly the ones I have seen have been taped up with a passive aggressive note telling cash users to use Oyster or contactless. I think it's highly objectionable to implement such policies without consultation or consideration of the potential adverse effects on the people most likely to be reliant on public transport.
 

najaB

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I think it's highly objectionable to implement such policies without consultation or consideration of the potential adverse effects on the people most likely to be reliant on public transport.
They are considering the impact - the health impact. It seems to have been missed by several posters that we have had well over 42,000 people killed by this disease, and that is before the first wave is even over. The second wave, when it starts, has the potential to be ten times worse (if historical precedent is anything to go by).
 

ForTheLoveOf

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They are considering the impact - the health impact. It seems to have been missed by several posters that we have had well over 42,000 people killed by this disease, and that is before the first wave is even over. The second wave, when it starts, has the potential to be ten times worse (if historical precedent is anything to go by).
It strikes me as far riskier to use a PIN pad, which there are currently no proposals to stop doing, than to insert some coins or notes into a machine. So where, precisely, is the supposed health impact of allowing cash to be used at ticket machines?

A proper consultation, as ought rightfully to have been done for this, would have analysed both the benefits and drawbacks of the proposal. Instead only inexistent benefits have been looked at and everything else is seemingly irrelevant.
 

island

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I agree; moves to stop cash acceptance at ticket machines seem to me to be much more likely motivated by a desire to reduce cost/not have to empty the machine of notes and refill it with coins than by any concerns about transmitting disease.
 

Haywain

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I agree; moves to stop cash acceptance at ticket machines seem to me to be much more likely motivated by a desire to reduce cost/not have to empty the machine of notes and refill it with coins than by any concerns about transmitting disease.
Seeing as handling cash increases the number of staff employed I think that the trade unions would very strongly disagree with you.
 

35B

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I agree; moves to stop cash acceptance at ticket machines seem to me to be much more likely motivated by a desire to reduce cost/not have to empty the machine of notes and refill it with coins than by any concerns about transmitting disease.
I think the motives may be more mixed - from experience elsewhere, minimisation of cash handling has been a consideration in protecting all involved in cash handling, especially staff. I'm also sure that any sensible large organisation would be looking hard at the implications of changes in behaviour due to Covid for the long term - and cash usage would be one of them.
 

Tetchytyke

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Seeing as handling cash increases the number of staff employed I think that the trade unions would very strongly disagree with you.
The unions lost that argument several years ago when all the ticket offices closed as a cost-cutting exercise.

Also, do TfL staff collect and deliver their own cash or do they outsource to a private security company such as G4S?

They are considering the impact - the health impact
At a TVM there is no health impact. Other than the passenger, nobody touches the money. It's all about cost and convenience.
 

superjohn

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It is increasingly obvious that Covid is going to become the new ’Health and Safety’. A convenient excuse to make changes that will be unpopular with the public. Cash acceptance, provision of catering, toilets etc. They are all under threat in the name of Covid.
 

island

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Seeing as handling cash increases the number of staff employed I think that the trade unions would very strongly disagree with you.
The staff who empty ticket machines are not rail staff and are not (to my knowledge) unionized.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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It is increasingly obvious that Covid is going to become the new ’Health and Safety’. A convenient excuse to make changes that will be unpopular with the public. Cash acceptance, provision of catering, toilets etc. They are all under threat in the name of Covid.
Indeed. TfL have been chomping at the bit to be able to get rid of cash, in the name of saving money. I wouldn't mind their actions nearly as much if they were honest with the public about what they're doing and why.
 

Mag_seven

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Its clear to me that handling cash is no riskier than handling anything else during the COVID outbreak. Just continue to wash your hands regularly and avoid touching your face. I suspect the TOCs know this but given the current climate of fear surrounding touching things they are using this to introduce cost saving initiatives using COVID as an excuse.
 

Haywain

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The unions lost that argument several years ago when all the ticket offices closed as a cost-cutting exercise.

Also, do TfL staff collect and deliver their own cash or do they outsource to a private security company such as G4S?
The staff who empty ticket machines are not rail staff and are not (to my knowledge) unionized.
These may be the case in TfL, but the same arguments about cash handling exist in TOCs where the situation is not the same.
 

Haywain

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Its clear to me that handling cash is no riskier than handling anything else during the COVID outbreak. Just continue to wash your hands regularly and avoid touching your face. I suspect the TOCs know this but given the current climate of fear surrounding touching things they are using this to introduce cost saving initiatives using COVID as an excuse.
It may be 'no riskier' but that is not a good reason to reduce the overall level of risk.
 

yorkie

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If a passenger travels on a National Rail service from a station like West Ruislip, and if they are paying by cash (or Rail Travel Vouchers, for that matter) and there is no facility to take cash there is no doubt they are entitled to board the train without a ticket and pay at the next opportunity.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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If a passenger travels on a National Rail service from a station like West Ruislip, and if they are paying by cash (or Rail Travel Vouchers, for that matter) and there is no facility to take cash there is no doubt they are entitled to board the train without a ticket and pay at the next opportunity.
There's only one slight, ahem, barrier to that!
 

Journeyman

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They are considering the impact - the health impact. It seems to have been missed by several posters that we have had well over 42,000 people killed by this disease, and that is before the first wave is even over. The second wave, when it starts, has the potential to be ten times worse (if historical precedent is anything to go by).
How many of those deaths can be directly attributed to putting money in vending machines? I'll hazard a guess at it being around zero.
 

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