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Hypothetical: what to do if you realise you're travelling with an expired railcard?

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XmaX

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Reading many of the threads in this subforum, it seems it is a common occurrence to be penalised for carrying an expired railcard or forgetting it altogether. What I was wondering, is there any way to avoid any penalty fare/risk of prosecution in such a case?

Let's say, I board a train with a railcard-discounted ticket. The train departs, and I realise that my railcard has expired a few days before. I'm willing to pay any excess to non-discounted fare, therefore the most sensible option would be to locate the guard and explain the situation. This, of course might be close to impossible on a crowded train. And what about when travelling in a DOO?
 
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rs101

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Depends on the railcard. Some can now be purchased online - I'd log on via my phone and get one quickly...
 

najaB

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Let's say, I board a train with a railcard-discounted ticket. The train departs, and I realise that my railcard has expired a few days before. I'm willing to pay any excess to non-discounted fare, therefore the most sensible option would be to locate the guard and explain the situation. This, of course might be close to impossible on a crowded train. And what about when travelling in a DOO?
Purchasing online is an option, as is paying for a new undiscounted ticket to the next staffed station, disembarking there and buying a new railcard at the ticket office.
 

island

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You are not supposed to be able to excess from a Railcard-discounted fare to an undiscounted fare. Some staff will still sell it.

If able, I would suggest buying a digital Railcard promptly.
 

Sprinter153

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You are not supposed to be able to excess from a Railcard-discounted fare to an undiscounted fare. Some staff will still sell it.

If able, I would suggest buying a digital Railcard promptly.

GWR policy now explicitly states an Excess to the undiscounted fare should be issued unless there is clear intent to avoid payment (and then a UFN or PF should be raised).

GWR RETAIL said:
In most cases, the excess fare should be charged, up to the undiscounted price for the journey being made. To reduce the risk of fraud please ask the customer for a form of ID and write their name on the back of the excess ticket. Please do not issue an entire new ticket for the journey

Customers may claim back the cost of the excess fare within 28 days of it being issued.
Refunds are only available from the Train Company that issued the additional ticket/excess charge.
In some cases, a Penalty Fare (PF) or Unpaid Fares Notice (UFN) may be issued. UFNs should only be issued by those colleagues that are not trained to issue PFs. Where a PF is issued, payment must not be taken as this will simplify the cancellation process when the customer submits proof to the Prosecutions Dept.

To claim a refund of their excess fare, customers must present suitable proof of their railcard, along with copies of all tickets used for the journey (this includes original ticket and the excess tickets).
For claims made at a ticket office, the railcard must be presented together with all tickets to support the refund claim. Wherever possible, ticket office colleagues should take a copy of the railcard to attach to the refund paperwork.
For claims made to GWR customer relations, the customer must send a photocopy of the railcard together with all tickets to support the refund claim.
 

6Gman

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Reading many of the threads in this subforum, it seems it is a common occurrence to be penalised for carrying an expired railcard or forgetting it altogether. What I was wondering, is there any way to avoid any penalty fare/risk of prosecution in such a case?

Let's say, I board a train with a railcard-discounted ticket. The train departs, and I realise that my railcard has expired a few days before. I'm willing to pay any excess to non-discounted fare, therefore the most sensible option would be to locate the guard and explain the situation. This, of course might be close to impossible on a crowded train. And what about when travelling in a DOO?

Problem (from an evidential point of view) is that it seems a bit odd that the passenger didn't notice when planning the journey; didn't notice when booking the ticket; but notices while sitting on the train after departure!
 

najaB

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Problem (from an evidential point of view) is that it seems a bit odd that the passenger didn't notice when planning the journey; didn't notice when booking the ticket; but notices while sitting on the train after departure!
It's not *that* odd. It's not that hard to believe that they didn't look at the expiry date when booking the ticket, but notice when take the railcard out of their wallet, ready for inspection, when they're sitting on the train.
 

stuartl

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Not the same situation but..
I forgot my senior railcard a few months ago on an xc journey, I told the conductor and he just charged me the difference to the discounted fare.
 

antharro

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I once bought a ticket to London with Network Rail discount, only to realised as I got to the platform that the railcard had expired the previous day. I knew it had expired in the lead up to the previous day but completely forgot to renew it. I approached the guard on the train before it left and asked if he would let me travel or let me excess up to the full fare. He waved me on and said because I'd approached him and been honest about it, he'd let me travel, but I would need to renew it (which I did at Waterloo on arrival) before making my return journey. If I hadn't found him I expect I would have been in a bit more trouble during the ticket check...
 

sarahj

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I once bought a ticket to London with Network Rail discount, only to realised as I got to the platform that the railcard had expired the previous day. I knew it had expired in the lead up to the previous day but completely forgot to renew it. I approached the guard on the train before it left and asked if he would let me travel or let me excess up to the full fare. He waved me on and said because I'd approached him and been honest about it, he'd let me travel, but I would need to renew it (which I did at Waterloo on arrival) before making my return journey. If I hadn't found him I expect I would have been in a bit more trouble during the ticket check...

Thats the thing, on train staff are not evil monsters. If folks come up and explain we are sympathetic. It's when they go and hide, or walk past us, and then come up with the excuse....
 

BestWestern

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GWR policy now explicitly states an Excess to the undiscounted fare should be issued unless there is clear intent to avoid payment (and then a UFN or PF should be raised).

In fairness, that is the forgotten railcard policy, as opposed to the expired/non-existant railcard policy!
 

323235

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I had an expired railcard which I used at the ticket office without realising it had expired. The G4S lady at Stockport spotted it and I went and promptly bought one.

Another time I bought a ticket then realised I didn't have my railcard before travel and got an excess at the ticket office.
 

pompeyfan

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Interesting that some TOCs still allow their onboard staff to excess tickets. I’m led to believe that it’s not possible to do that on Worldline/Envoy systems so Conditon 2 applies with no refund being applied on those TOCs.
 

jopsuk

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I've done it in the past (before digital railcards were a thing) - though I only noticed after I'd completed my journey and was no longer on railway property.
 
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