I am being threatened with court over a Trainline ticket dispute.

Curly Fries

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A few months ago I took a train journey from station x to station y. I used the Trainline app to buy my £6.60 ticket and instead of the usual QR code, it gave me a booking reference which meant I had to collect the ticket at station x. Unfortunately, I did not have my debit card with me which was required to collect the ticket at the station, as I had used ApplyPay through the Trainline app.

I explained this to the guard at the gate at station x who then let me through - no questions asked. When I got to station y, they then gave me a fine as I technically was travelling without a ticket as I had been unable to pick it up from station x, despite paying for it.

Upon receiving the fine, I contested it through email and they said my case was on hold whilst they investigated. Now, 2 months later, having heard nothing from the investigation, they sent me another letter telling me the fine had increased, I have to plead guilty or not guilty in a magistrates' court, and that if I now pay the fine (admitting the guilt) or am found guilty in court, I will receive a criminal record!

I now understand that in the terms of service you should have a valid ticket, and in this case this meant printing the ticket, but surely the guard should not have let me through knowing that I would get stuck with a fine at the other end?

Can they do this? I am 22 years old and will graduate from university this time next year and I am seriously concerned about the effect that a criminal record could have on my career prospects. I am extremely stressed out and would very much appreciate some advice.
 
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ainsworth74

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Upon receiving the fine, I contested it through email and they said my case was on hold whilst they investigated.

To be clear were you issued a Penalty Fare (not a fine)? Do you have any paperwork from the when you were issued this? If so can you upload it (with any personal details redacted)?

If you were issued a Penalty Fare how did you dispute it? Did you contact the Train Company directly or did you go through the appeal service? And did you do so within 21 days of the Penalty Fare being issued?

The reason to ask these questions is that it is possible that the train company are barred from taking court action. The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 do contain a provision (Regulation 11(3)) barring bringing a prosecution where an appeal has been made within the correct time limit and to the correct body.
 

AlbertBeale

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A few months ago I took a train journey from station x to station y. I used the Trainline app to buy my £6.60 ticket and instead of the usual QR code, it gave me a booking reference which meant I had to collect the ticket at station x. Unfortunately, I did not have my debit card with me which was required to collect the ticket at the station, as I had used ApplyPay through the Trainline app.

I explained this to the guard at the gate at station x who then let me through - no questions asked. When I got to station y, they then gave me a fine as I technically was travelling without a ticket as I had been unable to pick it up from station x, despite paying for it.

Upon receiving the fine, I contested it through email and they said my case was on hold whilst they investigated. Now, 2 months later, having heard nothing from the investigation, they sent me another letter telling me the fine had increased, I have to plead guilty or not guilty in a magistrates' court, and that if I now pay the fine (admitting the guilt) or am found guilty in court, I will receive a criminal record!

I now understand that in the terms of service you should have a valid ticket, and in this case this meant printing the ticket, but surely the guard should not have let me through knowing that I would get stuck with a fine at the other end?

Can they do this? I am 22 years old and will graduate from university this time next year and I am seriously concerned about the effect that a criminal record could have on my career prospects. I am extremely stressed out and would very much appreciate some advice.

If you pay money to the rail company (which is not a "fine") to settle this without going to court [or sending a guilty plea to a court in your absence, or ignore a court hearing and let the court assume a guilty plea by default], then there's no criminal record involved. Paying money to the rail company without any court process is not "admitting guilt" in a criminal sense. It's a matter just between you and the rail company. It sounds as though there's confusion between two processes - paying money ("fairly" or not) to the railway (and the amount can be higher depending on how quickly you pay them), and having the case dealt with by a court if the train company want to do that in the absence of an agreement directly with them which would avoid that.
 

Bletchleyite

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If you pay on Trainline with Apple Pay (I assume thats what was meant) what debit card are you supposed to use to collect the ticket?

The one it's set up with which you select when paying.

Do you have to have a debit cart to set up Apple Pay?

Yes.

Apple and Android Pay do permit the vendor enough of the card details to need a "specific card" collection. I don't think they get the full number, but they do get some of it at least. Android/Google Pay does pass the full card details through. The one that doesn't (and thus means you always get an "any card" collection) is PayPal.
 

Curly Fries

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To be clear were you issued a Penalty Fare (not a fine)? Do you have any paperwork from the when you were issued this? If so can you upload it (with any personal details redacted)?

If you were issued a Penalty Fare how did you dispute it? Did you contact the Train Company directly or did you go through the appeal service? And did you do so within 21 days of the Penalty Fare being issued?

The reason to ask these questions is that it is possible that the train company are barred from taking court action. The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 do contain a provision (Regulation 11(3)) barring bringing a prosecution where an appeal has been made within the correct time limit and to the correct body.
Hi there. Thanks for your reply. My apologies, it was a penalty fare. The original letter I received detailing the PF stated that I had 21 days to respond, during which time I sent an email to South Western Railway directly, writing to the Prosecutions and Fraud Manager, yet did not receive a reply at this time. The letter specifically stated that I had to 'respond' within 21 days, and as such on the 21st day after the letter was sent I sent the same person another email, quoting the letter and asking whether my email counted as a 'response' to which they replied to 2 days later, specifically stating that 'Please accept my apologies we are still looking into this for you and will be in touch in due course. Your case is currently on hold.' The next thing I received was the letter asking me to plead guilty or not guilty. I hope this helps and I very much appreciate what you've said so far.

If you pay money to the rail company (which is not a "fine") to settle this without going to court [or sending a guilty plea to a court in your absence, or ignore a court hearing and let the court assume a guilty plea by default], then there's no criminal record involved. Paying money to the rail company without any court process is not "admitting guilt" in a criminal sense. It's a matter just between you and the rail company. It sounds as though there's confusion between two processes - paying money ("fairly" or not) to the railway (and the amount can be higher depending on how quickly you pay them), and having the case dealt with by a court if the train company want to do that in the absence of an agreement directly with them which would avoid that.
The letter I recently recieved stated that if I am guilty either by going to court or paying them the amount now (as it's too late even though I was told my case was on hold and they'd be in touch in due course) then I would get a criminal record. I'm hoping they're wrong through!
 

WesternLancer

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I explained this to the guard at the gate at station x who then let me through - no questions asked. When I got to station y, they then gave me a fine as I technically was travelling without a ticket as I had been unable to pick it up from station x, despite paying for it.

I take it this means that gateline staff at station x let the OP through and were not bothered that a valid ticket was not being shown (as opposed to the 'Gaurd' or on board member of staff giving permission to travel on their train.

Then gateline or other staff at Station Y refused to accept the argument that the permission given at Gateline X was an acceptable reason why the OP did not have a valid ticket .

For the benefit of the OP these collection code type things are not valid for travel (eg you could have collected your ticket, given it to a friend, and then claimed that you had not collected it and traveled without paying, for example - not that you did this, but this is the reason for the rule) and thus you technically had no valid ticket for the journey.

However, as @ainsworth74 says you need to explain more info / upload the paperwork so people can see what exactly you have been asked to pay, what you did etc prior to getting this threat of court action, and give you best advice accordingly.

Hi there. Thanks for your reply. My apologies, it was a penalty fare. The original letter I received detailing the PF stated that I had 21 days to respond, during which time I sent an email to South Western Railway directly, writing to the Prosecutions and Fraud Manager, yet did not receive a reply at this time. The letter specifically stated that I had to 'respond' within 21 days, and as such on the 21st day after the letter was sent I sent the same person another email, quoting the letter and asking whether my email counted as a 'response' to which they replied to 2 days later, specifically stating that 'Please accept my apologies we are still looking into this for you and will be in touch in due course. Your case is currently on hold.' The next thing I received was the letter asking me to plead guilty or not guilty. I hope this helps and I very much appreciate what you've said so far.

Do we know if SW Railway deal with their Penalty Fares appeals in house or if they are passed to a 3rd party organisation?

Did the paperwork on the Penalty Fare say that you should write to the people you wrote to to make your Appeal (I assume it did but would help if you can clarify - or upload a copy)

I know this isnot ideal but if the option of paying the Penalty Fare still exists I would be tempted to suggest paying it to remove the threat of court action - but others might suggest a different approach.

Also - you mention you are a student, it might be worth you seeking advice for your university or student union advice serve about this, as they may be able to give you some free assistance.

I get that this is on me, and that I should have read the Ts and Cs properly before boarding, but if you're going to take me to court over it surely you should educate your employees on said policies too so that this doesn't happen?!
We get cases on here where staff say things to people that ultimately is not helpful to those passengers - I suspect barrier line staff do not always pay attention to what people are saying / showing them on their phone, have queues building up behind a person etc etc, or want to avoid conflict with passengers so 'pass on the problem' without caring what might happen to you later on. It's not helpful but we don't know the full circumstances.

I think your objective needs to be to find the best way not to end up being taken to court (where you will be found guilty as you did not have a ticket to show, as you appreciate), and end up with criminal record if it is at all possible for you to achieve that outcome at this stage.

The fact that SWR have escalated this to court whilst simultaneously replying to you and stating to you that things are being investigated is also very poor.

Hopefully you will get some good advice here over the next 24 hours on best course of action you can take.

I just googled the 1889 Regulation of Railways Act 1889. It states:

Every passenger by a railway shall, on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, either produce, and if so requested deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or pay his fare from the place whence he started, or give the officer or servant his name and address; and in case of default shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F1level 2 on the standard scale

I might sound stupid, but does this not mean that they should've given me the option to buy another ticket before issuing me with a FPN?

Basically no, not as I understand it (and it seems to me that if it did mean that, no one would buy a ticket until they were challenged by staff since there would be no effective penalty for not having a ticket until asked to provide one, at which point only then would you buy it).

I would add that there will be experienced and knowledgeable people on this forum who may take a different view. However, I suspect that if you want to try and argue that in court - even with advice from this forum - you may well need decent legal representation to help you do it, and that may cost a fair amount of money.
 
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Curly Fries

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Hello. Thanks for the help. All they have said that they are charging me with is 'for an offence or offences committed under the Railway Byelaws or Regulation of Railways Act 1889.' No further info was given in the original letter as to what specifically I was being charged with. In the extracts from the statements by the employee at station y, they stated that they are charging me because I 'failed to provide a ticket when asked.'

I get that this is on me, and that I should have read the Ts and Cs properly before boarding, but if you're going to take me to court over it surely you should educate your employees on said policies too so that this doesn't happen?!

I take it this means that gateline staff at station x let the OP through and were not bothered that a valid ticket was not being shown (as opposed to the 'Gaurd' or on board member of staff giving permission to travel on their train.

Then gateline or other staff at Station Y refused to accept the argument that the permission given at Gateline X was an acceptable reason why the OP did not have a valid ticket .

For the benefit of the OP these collection code type things are not valid for travel (eg you could have collected your ticket, given it to a friend, and then claimed that you had not collected it and traveled without paying, for example - not that you did this, but this is the reason for the rule) and thus you technically had no valid ticket for the journey.

However, as @ainsworth74 says you need to explain more info / upload the paperwork so people can see what exactly you have been asked to pay, what you did etc prior to getting this threat of court action, and give you best advice accordingly.



Do we know if SW Railway deal with their Penalty Fares appeals in house or if they are passed to a 3rd party organisation?

Did the paperwork on the Penalty Fare say that you should write to the people you wrote to to make your Appeal (I assume it did but would help if you can clarify - or upload a copy)

I know thi si snot ideal but if the option of paying the Penalty Fare still exists I would be tempted to suggest paying it to remove the threat of court action - but other might suggest a different approach.

Also - you mention you are a student, it might be worth you seeking advice for your university or student union advice serve about this, as they may be able to give you some free assistance.
The original letter stated that 'any questions or mitigation you may have can be addressed by emailing us at prosecutions@swrailway.com' which is exactly what I did as soon as I received the letter.

Since receiving the letter stating that I have to plead guilty or not guilty I have sent the lady another email stating that I have been in contact with her this whole time and she should have told me the result of the investigation before instigating legal proceedings, as eluded to where she stated that she will 'be in touch in due course. your case is currently on hold.' This seems very unfair. I asked for a reason as to why my appeal was not successful and stated that, if this is the case, then the fine should be settled out of court.

Great idea about contacting the uni - I'll look into it now.
 

Curly Fries

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I just googled the 1889 Regulation of Railways Act 1889. It states:

Every passenger by a railway shall, on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, either produce, and if so requested deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or pay his fare from the place whence he started, or give the officer or servant his name and address; and in case of default shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F1level 2 on the standard scale

I might sound stupid, but does this not mean that they should've given me the option to buy another ticket before issuing me with a FPN?

I take it this means that gateline staff at station x let the OP through and were not bothered that a valid ticket was not being shown (as opposed to the 'Gaurd' or on board member of staff giving permission to travel on their train.

Then gateline or other staff at Station Y refused to accept the argument that the permission given at Gateline X was an acceptable reason why the OP did not have a valid ticket .

For the benefit of the OP these collection code type things are not valid for travel (eg you could have collected your ticket, given it to a friend, and then claimed that you had not collected it and traveled without paying, for example - not that you did this, but this is the reason for the rule) and thus you technically had no valid ticket for the journey.

However, as @ainsworth74 says you need to explain more info / upload the paperwork so people can see what exactly you have been asked to pay, what you did etc prior to getting this threat of court action, and give you best advice accordingly.



Do we know if SW Railway deal with their Penalty Fares appeals in house or if they are passed to a 3rd party organisation?

Did the paperwork on the Penalty Fare say that you should write to the people you wrote to to make your Appeal (I assume it did but would help if you can clarify - or upload a copy)

I know thi si snot ideal but if the option of paying the Penalty Fare still exists I would be tempted to suggest paying it to remove the threat of court action - but other might suggest a different approach.

Also - you mention you are a student, it might be worth you seeking advice for your university or student union advice serve about this, as they may be able to give you some free assistance.


We get cases on here where staff say things to people that ultimately is not helpful to those passengers - I suspect barrier line staff do not always pay attention to what people are saying / showing them on their phone, have queues building up behind a person etc etc, or want to avoid conflict with passengers so 'pass on the problem' without caring what might happen to you later on. It's not helpful but we don't know the full circumstances.

I think your objective needs to be to find the best way not to end up being taken to court (where you will be found guilty as you did not have a ticket to show, as you appreciate), and end up with criminal record if it is at all possible for you to achieve that outcome at this stage.

The fact that SWR have escalated this to court whilst simultaneously replying to you and stating to you that things are being investigated is also very poor.

Hopefully you will get some good advice here over the next 24 hours on best course of action you can take.
Absolutely. I'd pay 10 x the original fine to get this off my head right now! Fingers crossed and thanks for the help.
 

WesternLancer

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Ok - hope Uni advice service can help.

Ref SWR - they are not obliged to offer you out of court settlement (so do not try to insist on it) but as you are doing, keep trying to engage with them to make the points you are making. See @Hadders advice in these threads about apologising too as you did not understand ref ticket as unable to obtain it, (what happened when you tried to use the bank card to get it from machine?) and state again that gateline staff specifically let you through which you regarded as 'permission to travel from railway staff'.

And / or you could try to make @ainsworth74 argument ref penalty appeal appeal barring them taking court action - you will need more advice on this maybe but I expect that will be forthcoming when you can upload anonymised docs / letters etc

You could post your draft replies up for proof check if you think it may help.
 

reb0118

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Just to clarify: were you offered a penalty fare and if so were you unwilling or unable to pay it at the time?
 

WesternLancer

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Also have you read this carefully and checked if your case is being dealt with in line with it?

The thing is I thought Penalty Fares appeals were dealt with by some sort of independent body -- now in my view your appeal would be rejected by them, and you would be asked to then pay the PF within a set time, but you seem to be discussing your penalty fare with SWR? So before being clear on what to do next I think we need to understand exactly what you have been handed by the railway staff who stopped you at station Y.
 
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skyhigh

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The thing is I thought Penalty Fares appeals were dealt with by some sort of independent body -- now in my view your appeal would be rejected, but you seem to be discussing your penalty fare with SWR?
If a valid appeal to a Penalty Fare is made, the TOC are then barred from prosecuting that offence. The issue here is the OP seems to have appealed by contacting SWR via email, yet as you note the appeals for SWR are dealt with by Penalty Services (https://www.penaltyservices.co.uk/make-an-appeal/):
The original letter I received detailing the PF stated that I had 21 days to respond, during which time I sent an email to South Western Railway directly, writing to the Prosecutions and Fraud Manager, yet did not receive a reply at this time.

So I guess the question is, does this count as a valid appeal? What did the letter and original PF paperwork state regarding how you could submit an appeal?
 

WesternLancer

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If a valid appeal to a Penalty Fare is made, the TOC are then barred from prosecuting that offence. The issue here is the OP seems to have appealed by contacting SWR via email, yet as you note the appeals for SWR are dealt with by Penalty Services (https://www.penaltyservices.co.uk/make-an-appeal/):


So I guess the question is, does this count as a valid appeal? What did the letter and original PF paperwork state regarding how you could submit an appeal?
Indeed. But I think we need to be 100% clear about what happened here, if it was indeed a PF (out of the options listed on the SWR policy) - the OP may need to check this to be sure / upload any paperwork they may have about it - just to check no confusion. I doubt that anything other than an Appeal sent to Penalty Services counts as an 'Appeal' for example.

I fear confused / unrelated correspondence that has not been cross referenced and the case has simply escalated to court automatically - after all the OP can show they sought to pay for a ticket before travel, the railway has no lost out etc etc - all the sorts of things that would potentially support a settlement.

Might help if @Curly Fries could set out a clear timeline list of dates when things happened, what letters were received and from who, what replies were sent and to who etc.
 

island

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I just googled the 1889 Regulation of Railways Act 1889. It states:

Every passenger by a railway shall, on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, either produce, and if so requested deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or pay his fare from the place whence he started, or give the officer or servant his name and address; and in case of default shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F1level 2 on the standard scale

I might sound stupid, but does this not mean that they should've given me the option to buy another ticket before issuing me with a FPN?
There are several sections of the Regulation of Railways Act, that is just one possibility.

In your case I expect you would be prosecuted under section 18 (2) of the Railway Byelaws (failure to hand over a ticket for inspection).

If you pay on Trainline with Apple Pay (I assume thats what was meant) what debit card are you supposed to use to collect the ticket? Do you have to have a debit cart to set up Apple Pay?
Generally, if you pay with Apple Pay/PayPal/etc. the booking will be set to be collectable by any card, although this is not a universal process.
 

Curly Fries

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Just to clarify: were you offered a penalty fare and if so were you unwilling or unable to pay it at the time?
I was told that I would receive a penalty fare through the post and once I did I emailed them through the address that they gave for appeals. I was then told my case was on hold and that the lady I was emailing would be in touch in 'due course' - the next thing I knew I was asked to plead guilty or not guilty.

Indeed. But I think we need to be 100% clear about what happened here, if it was indeed a PF (out of the options listed on the SWR policy) - the OP may need to check this to be sure / upload any paperwork they may have about it - just to check no confusion. I doubt that anything other than an Appeal sent to Penalty Services counts as an 'Appeal' for example.

I fear confused / unrelated correspondence that has not been cross referenced and the case has simply escalated to court automatically - after all the OP can show they sought to pay for a ticket before travel, the railway has no lost out etc etc - all the sorts of things that would potentially support a settlement.

Might help if @Curly Fries could set out a clear timeline list of dates when things happened, what letters were received and from who, what replies were sent and to who etc.
5th March 2022 - the incident happened
22nd March 2022 - letter sent to me, stating that I should pay a fine or fight it in court, and it said that 'any questions or mitigation you may have can be addressed by emailing us at prosecutions@swrailway.com' It also stated I had 21 days to respond
26th March 2022 - I received this letter as I was away from home at the time (although I am aware this is irrelevant). I sent the above email address a long email detailing what happened with the guard at station x letting me through etc. stating that I would like to contest the fine
12th April 2022 - this is 21 days after the letter was sent to me, and I had not heard anything. I sent another email telling them that I had 'responded' as the letter had asked, as I had emailed by way of contesting the fine
14th April 2022 - email received from SWR prosecution, stating that 'please accept my apologies we are looking into this for you and will be in touch in due course. Your case is currently on hold.'
30th May 2022 - letter received asking me to plead guilty or not guilty, having heard nothing from the investigation
5th June 2022 - I received this letter on this date, as again I was at my uni address so not at home (again, irrelevant, but just some detail). Sent another email stating that I am very surprised to be receiving this letter having heard nothing from the investigation. I also said that if my appeal was denied I'd like to know why, and if this is the case I should have been/ should be given a chance to pay the fine without involving the court.
7th June 2022 - no reply yet received so I chased them.

I don't know how I feel about uploading any documents, although I do understand that you may need them to help me properly. I'm just a little concerned about the emails and letters only being meant for me etc. so I'm unsure what I should take out.

I have a feeling that you're right about the court pleading to be automatic, maybe the lady I was emailing forgot to tick a box or something and therefore they think I've just ignored the fine, in which case the court is obviously required.

I'd like to thank everyone for their help so far, it's good to know that I can get some advice!
 
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reb0118

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I was told that I would receive a penalty fare through the post and once I did I emailed them through the address that they gave for appeals.

I may be out of touch but my understanding is that penalty fares are offered, and have to be accepted, on the spot. I have not experienced many cases of penalty fares being posted out to passengers - I'm not saying its impossible just unusual.

With regard to appeals, unlike parking tickets, you are firstly expected to pay the penalty fare before appealing - in any case the appeal does not stop the process.

From your reply above I do not think you were offered a penalty fare but that a report of the matter was submitted to a revenue protection department and that your case has been provisionally actioned for possible prosecution. They have seemingly offered you an out of court settlement (NB not a penalty nor fine) to make the matter go away. Technically there is no appeal to that as you either accept it or not.

Further to that you were asked to provide your side of the story. This you did. This, however, was not received, ignored, or was not deemed acceptable as it appears that you have been reported for prosecution. I assume this from your being asked to plead guilty or not guilty. Can you confirm that the paperwork comes from a court or the rail company. This is important. I would assume that any court action would be taken, initially at least, via the Single Justice Procedure (SJP) system.

Hopefully this matter is still in the hands of the railway but we need more information to confirm that.
 
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skyhigh

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22nd March 2022 - letter sent to me, stating that I should pay a fine or fight it in court, and it said that 'any questions or mitigation you may have can be addressed by emailing us at prosecutions@swrailway.com' It also stated I had 21 days to respond
Please upload a copy of this letter with personal details redacted. This sounds very much like they offered you an out-of-court settlement not a Penalty Fare.

They stated that you could send any mitigation and they would consider it - they seem to have not accepted this mitigation and decided to proceed to court. If you were not issued a penalty fare, they are fully entitled to do this.

If it was a Penalty Fare the situation is different, so it is important to clarify this.
 

richw

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Apple and Android Pay do permit the vendor enough of the card details to need a "specific card" collection. I don't think they get the full number, but they do get some of it at least
I’ve just looked at my Apple Pay, and the Apple Pay card number does not match my physical card. There is no info that relates to the physical card within my Apple Pay account details. On a receipt from just now the last 4 card digits on my receipt are the same as the random Apple Pay card number.
 

WesternLancer

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I was told that I would receive a penalty fare through the post and once I did I emailed them through the address that they gave for appeals. I was then told my case was on hold and that the lady I was emailing would be in touch in 'due course' - the next thing I knew I was asked to plead guilty or not guilty.


5th March 2022 - the incident happened
22nd March 2022 - letter sent to me, stating that I should pay a fine or fight it in court, and it said that 'any questions or mitigation you may have can be addressed by emailing us at prosecutions@swrailway.com' It also stated I had 21 days to respond
26th March 2022 - I received this letter as I was away from home at the time (although I am aware this is irrelevant). I sent the above email address a long email detailing what happened with the guard at station x letting me through etc. stating that I would like to contest the fine
12th April 2022 - this is 21 days after the letter was sent to me, and I had not heard anything. I sent another email telling them that I had 'responded' as the letter had asked, as I had emailed by way of contesting the fine
14th April 2022 - email received from SWR prosecution, stating that 'please accept my apologies we are looking into this for you and will be in touch in due course. Your case is currently on hold.'
30th May 2022 - letter received asking me to plead guilty or not guilty, having heard nothing from the investigation
5th June 2022 - I received this letter on this date, as again I was at my uni address so not at home (again, irrelevant, but just some detail). Sent another email stating that I am very surprised to be receiving this letter having heard nothing from the investigation. I also said that if my appeal was denied I'd like to know why, and if this is the case I should have been/ should be given a chance to pay the fine without involving the court.
7th June 2022 - no reply yet received so I chased them.

I don't know how I feel about uploading any documents, although I do understand that you may need them to help me properly. I'm just a little concerned about the emails and letters only being meant for me etc. so I'm unsure what I should take out.

I have a feeling that you're right about the court pleading to be automatic, maybe the lady I was emailing forgot to tick a box or something and therefore they think I've just ignored the fine, in which case the court is obviously required.

I'd like to thank everyone for their help so far, it's good to know that I can get some advice!
Thanks for the timeline - v helpful. As others have said in 2 recent posts (#17 and #18) it looks like there is maybe confusion between a penalty fare and a settlement offer- which you may have seen as a "penalty" for what you did that was unfair (might you be confusing this?).

I understand your reluctance to upload stuff, but think we can only give you best advice on how to respond if you can share anonymised versions of what they have sent you. You could maybe remove other sections of the letters if you think they refer enough to you to identify your case should that be of concern to you.

If there is any prospect still of paying them what they asked you to pay to settle (and as a result the court threat being removed), you need to give serious consideration to paying that now to bring the saga to a close - albeit frustrating to have cost you.

Had you got advice on here earlier it may have been possible to prevent this escalating as it seems like it has done, but that is no help of me to say that now as of course that is water under the bridge.

I think we are keen to try to help you here, but hard to know what best to advise without knowing what the railway have said in writing to you, and what you were issued with at the time you were stopped and questioned at the end of your journey - at Station Y.
 
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Okowsc

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2018
Messages
12
I’ve just looked at my Apple Pay, and the Apple Pay card number does not match my physical card. There is no info that relates to the physical card within my Apple Pay account details. On a receipt from just now the last 4 card digits on my receipt are the same as the random Apple Pay card number.
Buying online Vs buying in person with apple and Google pay are two different processes.
 

DerelictLine

Member
Joined
28 May 2022
Messages
27
Location
Yorkshire
I used the Trainline app to buy my £6.60 ticket and instead of the usual QR code, it gave me a booking reference which meant I had to collect the ticket at station x
Is there any reason why it didn’t give you a QR code and instead only gave you the option to collect tickets at the station?

I’m assuming you normally use the QR code so wouldn’t have pressed the “collect from station” button, and in my experience the QR code option is always selected, so I’m wondering why the ticket you purchased was not a QR code one.
 

Adam Williams

Member
Joined
2 Jan 2018
Messages
411
Location
Warks
Is there any reason why it didn’t give you a QR code and instead only gave you the option to collect tickets at the station?

Depending on the ticket, it may not have been permitted by the train operating company to issue it as an E-Ticket (with an Aztec code).

If OP told us what station X and station Y were, this could be checked.
 

Curly Fries

Member
Joined
6 Jun 2022
Messages
7
Location
Egham
Just an update for those interested - I called them and they informed me that the case had been withdrawn.

Thanks everyone for the help - hopefully this thread can help someone in a similar situation :)
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
4,880
Just an update for those interested - I called them and they informed me that the case had been withdrawn.

Thanks everyone for the help - hopefully this thread can help someone in a similar situation :)
Thanks for this update! Really helpful and sounds like a good result.

Can you clarify - was this the court who told you this or the railway company (SWR)?

If it was the railway company who advised you of this it might be worth, maybe a bit nearer any scheduled court date, ringing the court to check that the case actually has been withdrawn. I am thinking here that you had paperwork from the court asking for your plea and that may mean it is in some sort of system at the court whereby if they do not receive a response there may be some risk of some automatic escalation that all needs to be avoided.

It might be worth you trying to get the information confirmed in writing if you can, from whoever you contacted.

I'd certainly keep a clear note of that conversation (eg at x time on y date I rang xx on number yyyy and spoke to (name of person) who advised me that "....") - what I think is called a 'contemporaneous note' - write it by hand and take a photo of your note with a date stamp on it say.

I know this is all a bit belt and braces but these are safeguards you could take over this to check the matter has all been brought to a satisfactory conclusion.
 
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Curly Fries

Member
Joined
6 Jun 2022
Messages
7
Location
Egham
Thanks for this update! Really helpful and sounds like a good result.

Can you clarify - was this the court who told you this or the railway company (SWR)?

If it was the railway company who advised you of this it might be worth, maybe a bit nearer any scheduled court date, ringing the court to check that the case actually has been withdrawn. I am thinking here that you had paperwork from the court asking for your plea and that may mean it is in some sort of system at the court whereby if they do not receive a response there may be some risk of some automatic escalation that all needs to be avoided.

It might be worth you trying to get the information confirmed in writing if you can, from whoever you contacted.

I'd certainly keep a clear note of that conversation (eg at x time on y date I rang xx on number yyyy and spoke to (name of person) who advised me that "....") - what I think is called a 'contemporaneous note' - write it by hand and take a photo of your note with a date stamp on it say.

I know this is all a bit belt and braces but these are safeguards you could take over this to check the matter has all been brought to a satisfactory conclusion.
It was SWR who told me. I have it in writing as well from the prosecutions manager.

Great idea - I'll get that done right away.

Thanks again!
 

Steddenm

Member
Joined
2 Mar 2017
Messages
645
Location
Clane, Co. Kildare
If you paid using Apple Pay you can still use Apple Pay to collect your ticket by tapping your device on the contactless reader on the TVM. You can also use this method with a physical card to collect tickets.
 

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