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I am truly scared.....

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Wellington, Shropshire
Thanks for reporting back and I am glad that you managed to get an Out of Court Settlement. I started to worry when I read you'd only asked to settle out of court for one of the charges. Why not request all 3 I was thinking! I am so glad the Barrister came back and gave you an offer in return for dropping all of the charges.

Out of interest, did he require payment straight away or did he give you instruction on how to pay the settlement and how long do you have to?

So glad you got the outcome you wanted! Now that this is behind you, you are welcome to make formal complaint about the way you were treated to both Transport for Wales (as you encountered their agent) and West Midland Trains as the operator of the station you used. You can appeal these to the Rail Ombudsman /Transport Focus if you are unhappy. Of course, I realise you might just want to put the whole thing behind you now and move forward.
He asked me if I could pay straight away and I said yes - paid over the phone to their head office - I just wanted it over as quickly as possible. I did think briefly about a complaint but to be honest, I do just want to move on.

Cheers!
 
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gray1404

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Glad you were able to pay it straight away and you're able to move forward. The ball is in your court now as to what you do (or don't). The settlement stops them being able to do anything further.
 

Fare-Cop

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England
Not being an expert on such matters can I ask whether it is fair to decline an "out of court settlement" at the beginning of the process only to offer one at the end of the process when we all know that the ToC will not benefit from a criminal conviction in the same way as they would from any settlement?

It seems to me that there are some very clear misunderstandings regarding process in all of these threads at times, but that's only to be expected as a great many respondents will of course be commenting from their personal opinion rather than daily experience of dealing with these matters. Please don't take that as criticism in any sense because it isn't.

When those who have been spoken to, or reported, for alleged ticket validity matters post messages seeking advice, or other help, on public forums it is inevitable that differing perceptions will arise from a one sided account of any interaction. We have to take any OP's account at face value, because we as public viewers cannot see the company's evidence nor question it.

To answer to joke2711 whether it's fair or not for a company to decline a settlement, only to accept one later, I'd say this depends entirely on circumstances.

It may be that a company believes that they have identified a clear case of intentional fare evasion and they may notify the alleged offender that they intend to prosecute this offence as is their right.

We can assume that the alleged offender may write and attempt to persuade the company to change their mind, but on reviewing their evidence, if the company sees no reason to change their view that prosecution is justified they will advise the alleged offender accordingly. There may be further correspondence back & forth, but nothing if changes and the company decides there is no reason not to continue, the appropriate protocols will be applied and papers issued.

Even at this late stage the alleged offender may be trying to convince the company not to proceed with a Court action and cases are continuously reviewed by prosecutors right up to presentation as a result.

If new evidence suddenly comes to light, or perhaps something is said by the defendant that had not been previously raised, if the company have a change of senior personnel with a different policy, any of these things and a host of other factors may sway the decision one way or the other.

If, in a final reassessment on the day the prosecutor feels there is good reason to change direction s/he may do so at any time up until the case is actually called into Court and it's absolutely right that should be allowed. That's perfectly normal and not uncommon in my experience, but I often think some people jump to the immediate conclusion that a rail company has an ulterior motive in these matters when allowing a late settlement.

There was an interesting response to a request some years ago, which will perhaps help. A leading Barrister was asked to determine whether administrative settlements were fair or a punitive measure. As I recall, he described them as 'a properly costed assessment' of the time and work that goes into preparing a case for Court and that the defendant was always free to decline the opportunity and have the evidence tested if they wanted.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
7,171
It seems to me that there are some very clear misunderstandings regarding process in all of these threads at times, but that's only to be expected as a great many respondents will of course be commenting from their personal opinion rather than daily experience of dealing with these matters. Please don't take that as criticism in any sense because it isn't.

When those who have been spoken to, or reported, for alleged ticket validity matters post messages seeking advice, or other help, on public forums it is inevitable that differing perceptions will arise from a one sided account of any interaction. We have to take any OP's account at face value, because we as public viewers cannot see the company's evidence nor question it.

To answer to joke2711 whether it's fair or not for a company to decline a settlement, only to accept one later, I'd say this depends entirely on circumstances.

It may be that a company believes that they have identified a clear case of intentional fare evasion and they may notify the alleged offender that they intend to prosecute this offence as is their right.

We can assume that the alleged offender may write and attempt to persuade the company to change their mind, but on reviewing their evidence, if the company sees no reason to change their view that prosecution is justified they will advise the alleged offender accordingly. There may be further correspondence back & forth, but nothing if changes and the company decides there is no reason not to continue, the appropriate protocols will be applied and papers issued.

Even at this late stage the alleged offender may be trying to convince the company not to proceed with a Court action and cases are continuously reviewed by prosecutors right up to presentation as a result.

If new evidence suddenly comes to light, or perhaps something is said by the defendant that had not been previously raised, if the company have a change of senior personnel with a different policy, any of these things and a host of other factors may sway the decision one way or the other.

If, in a final reassessment on the day the prosecutor feels there is good reason to change direction s/he may do so at any time up until the case is actually called into Court and it's absolutely right that should be allowed. That's perfectly normal and not uncommon in my experience, but I often think some people jump to the immediate conclusion that a rail company has an ulterior motive in these matters when allowing a late settlement.

There was an interesting response to a request some years ago, which will perhaps help. A leading Barrister was asked to determine whether administrative settlements were fair or a punitive measure. As I recall, he described them as 'a properly costed assessment' of the time and work that goes into preparing a case for Court and that the defendant was always free to decline the opportunity and have the evidence tested if they wanted.
Useful insights and interesting to read. Question that occurs to me to ask is the extent to which the prosecutor is given discretion by the TOC to make a decision not to prosecute on the day - now I'm sure they would weight up the obvious likelihood of winning or losing the case, but would they have discretion over other matters? EG the prosecutors views of the person's character, liklihood of doing it again etc etc. How much discretion would the TOC give to that person - I mean they would presumably not have time when at the court to ring the case manager back to the TOC or TIL or wherever and say "I reckon it would be better if we just agreed to settle with this chap, are you going to be OK with that...?" and the case manager dig the file out again, look at it all and agree or disagree etc.
 

Fare-Cop

Member
Joined
5 Aug 2010
Messages
950
Location
England
Useful insights and interesting to read. Question that occurs to me to ask is the extent to which the prosecutor is given discretion by the TOC to make a decision not to prosecute on the day - now I'm sure they would weight up the obvious likelihood of winning or losing the case, but would they have discretion over other matters? EG the prosecutors views of the person's character, liklihood of doing it again etc etc. How much discretion would the TOC give to that person - I mean they would presumably not have time when at the court to ring the case manager back to the TOC or TIL or wherever and say "I reckon it would be better if we just agreed to settle with this chap, are you going to be OK with that...?" and the case manager dig the file out again, look at it all and agree or disagree etc.

Much will depend on the individual TOC and the contractual arrangements if an agency is engaged to act on their behalf, but in my experience, modern communications mean it takes very little time to check if an approval is ever necessary. Furthermore, if a TOC is employing an agency on the basis of experience & skills in any field, you would expect that they have pre-determined protocols for triggering approval where it might be considered appropriate.
 
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