I still think it’s outrageous that NON-Safeguard Employees on the railway are NOT entitled to a PTAC

[IanXC]

It's actually a forum rule.
Only gets enforced when an Admin breathes on you. For some it's okay, others not so much.

We're all here to, and do, enforce the rules!

The issue is that there is so much content that it's unsafe to assume one of us has read the breach you're looking at - do use the report function to bring it to our attention!

 

[AlterEgo]

No!

Why would you not contact your union rep? This is a term of your employment contract you would like to see changed. It would likely require collective bargaining, in the same way any contractual term would be negotiated.

Who else, other than your employer directly, do you think you can make representations to?

 

[WarJan]

Jerry, I get the impression you travel on your priv ticket with your nose up and your head held higher than all the other passengers paying full price, I hope I never run into you as you sound a right spoilt snob. Be glad you make savings through PRIV.

 

[bb21]

I agree completely, however I soon will need to stop buying PRIV monthly’s and turn to an annual season, and as you say I’m not sure I can get it direct at the ticket office therefore will have to fill out the form on RST, but I only step foot on a train if I have a ticket, otherwise I won’t even try my luck. I don’t know how the tax thing works, do you have to be safeguarded to get a tax free season at PRIV ?

Are you TOC, LUL, NR, or freight.

For TOC staff, the discount is 75%. You fill in a form and apply through RSTL, who will authorise your form, and you get the full 75% discount which is not taxable.

For NR staff, the discount is still 75% but it is deemed for tax purposes as a "benefit in kind" as it costs NR money to purchase this facility from RSTL, so is taxable. There is a cap of £3000 to the amount discountable AIUI, and anything exceeding that the additional amount would be at full price.

I would love to know more about the Cross London transfer, to save me from opening a new thread. Does this include unlimited travel if for example I was going from Kings Cross to Victoria, this would be Terminals - Z1256 right ? . I was at the ticket office the other day they offered me underground on a ticket from London to Essex, checking the normal app I saw no option for this fare at public rate that included underground so am baffled at how the advisor was able to offer me underground which I presume is the cross transfer but am also unsure if this is unlimited with 1-6.

The only discounted Underground travel afforded to non-safeguarded Priv holders is when Underground travel forms part of a cross-London transfer, most commonly represented by the dagger sign on your ticket in the "Route" field. The origin and destination station should be a National Rail station. There is no entitlement to a discounted fare to a U-zone station, eg. Zone U12* London.

Can I get a Priv monthly which includes priv LU I strongly doubt it but was intreged to find out you could do a cross London transfer, At PRIV on the LU.

Season ticket versions of most flows including a cross-London transfer were removed a few years ago (and still are in theory on an ongoing basis) as TfL prefer people to purchase Travelcards for regular commuting. Unfortunately non-safeguarded staff are not entitled to any discount on fares including a Travelcard element, even outboundary ones.

Some such flows still exist, as I use one personally, but these are not always easy to find.

Sorry but Metros and Trams are nothing to do with the railway why should they get discounted rail travel?

The only exception I can find is Croydon Tramlink staff, who do get Priv facilities, and in exchange, all Priv holders (including non-safeguarded staff) get unlimited free travel on Croydon Tramlink services. It all depends on what terms were agreed between the companies, presumably at the time of transfer of ownership.

Another quirk of the system is that all Priv holders get free travel on Windermere Lake Cruises services. How about that for randomness. (Yes, I know it was because it used to be part of BR.)

As for the original point of discussion, I am just glad that we still have this facility available, and it is not really under any serious attack from this joke of a government, unlike our pensions.

 

[cbrstu]

Just to clarify a point about Police Officers. If you are in the Met you get free rail travel within about 70 miles of London if you joined before a certain date this was agreed with the ATOC. Nowdays they offer new entrants a season ticket loan. Northamptonshire Officers are offered free travel on West Midlands trains between Birmingham New Street and London Euston services but has to be for official business.
BTP officers get free rail travel to and from their place of work and of course whilst they are on duty on the Underground and Croydon Trams.

I also understand the old BR Priv scheme only applies to walk up fares not online.

 

[theironroad]

Just to clarify a point about Police Officers. If you are in the Met you get free rail travel within about 70 miles of London if you joined before a certain date this was agreed with the ATOC. Nowdays they offer new entrants a season ticket loan. Northamptonshire Officers are offered free travel on West Midlands trains between Birmingham New Street and London Euston services but has to be for official business.
BTP officers get free rail travel to and from their place of work and of course whilst they are on duty on the Underground and Croydon Trams.

I also understand the old BR Priv scheme only applies to walk up fares not online.

The only priv rate anyone can get online afaik is the Caledonian sleeper.

Priv rate is not on advance fares at anytime only walk up. Also TVMs don't do priv , so it's find a staffed ticket office or guard who can sell tickets

 

[MrPIC]

They ran a trial recently of including advanced fares at priv rate, is it still the case? Last I heard was that it was being trialled with a view to being made permanent. Or maybe I'm getting confused somewhere but there was definitely a trial of something recently for priv staff to be allowed to get priv rate on the cheaper tickets

 

[CyrusWuff]

They ran a trial recently of including advanced fares at priv rate, is it still the case? Last I heard was that it was being trialled with a view to being made permanent. Or maybe I'm getting confused somewhere but there was definitely a trial of something recently for priv staff to be allowed to get priv rate on the cheaper tickets

Originally a priv was only available on Anytime Returns. The trial extended that to Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak tickets and has been extended every year since.

Like the discount on season tickets for non-safeguarded staff, it's non-contractual and could be withdrawn at any point rather than extended.

 

[theironroad]

Originally a priv was only available on Anytime Returns. The trial extended that to Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak tickets and has been extended every year since.

Like the discount on season tickets for non-safeguarded staff, it's non-contractual and could be withdrawn at any point rather than extended.

I think this isn't he trial mrpic was thinking about. I've not heard about advance fares getting priv and would be surprised if they did.

The priv only on anytime tickets was becoming crazy and it could often be cheaper to buy advance. The 'trial' has made a big difference and I'm happy to keep at that.

What I would like the RDG and RSTL to do is set out a way of buying tickets online , maybe m-tickets can a dedicated app that is linked to your RSTL staff travel records.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I think this isn't he trial mrpic was thinking about. I've not heard about advance fares getting priv and would be surprised if they did.

The priv only on anytime tickets was becoming crazy and it could often be cheaper to buy advance. The 'trial' has made a big difference and I'm happy to keep at that.

What I would like the RDG and RSTL to do is set out a way of buying tickets online , maybe m-tickets can a dedicated app that is linked to your RSTL staff travel records.

I think the issue with having them issued without a physical check - ie online or via a TVM using a code, as per the Cal Sleeper, is that not enough tickets are checked so the general public may and probably will get hold of it and abuse it, as tickets are not physically checked enough, especially on DOO services. It works with the Cal Sleeper as the Hosts check every single ticket on boarding. To link it to your Staff Travel details would be very complicated as every ticket machine in the country would need to be linked to the RST database.

Personally, I don't find having to buy from a ticket office or guard overly inconvenient. But then my home and work stations both have ticket offices

 

[Teddyward]

Just to clarify a point about Police Officers. If you are in the Met you get free rail travel within about 70 miles of London if you joined before a certain date this was agreed with the ATOC.

Hasn’t been free for years. It’s not much compared to what a real season ticket on any given TOC would cost, but it’s definitely not free. It’s about a third of what mine from GRY to WEH would be. ( if anyone is interested it’s £64.88 pcm).

 

[IanXC]

I think the issue with having them issued without a physical check - ie online or via a TVM using a code, as per the Cal Sleeper, is that not enough tickets are checked so the general public may and probably will get hold of it and abuse it, as tickets are not physically checked enough, especially on DOO services. It works with the Cal Sleeper as the Hosts check every single ticket on boarding. To link it to your Staff Travel details would be very complicated as every ticket machine in the country would need to be linked to the RST database.

Personally, I don't find having to buy from a ticket office or guard overly inconvenient. But then my home and work stations both have ticket offices

I think thats why theironroad was suggesting an app and the use of m-tickets. No TVM issues then.

 

[6Gman]

Sorry but Metros and Trams are nothing to do with the railway why should they get discounted rail travel?

Curiously, I think I get Priv on Tyne & wear (because it's basically ex-BR) but not on Manchester Metro (despite it being basically ex-BR).

I think.

 

[theironroad]

I think the issue with having them issued without a physical check - ie online or via a TVM using a code, as per the Cal Sleeper, is that not enough tickets are checked so the general public may and probably will get hold of it and abuse it, as tickets are not physically checked enough, especially on DOO services. It works with the Cal Sleeper as the Hosts check every single ticket on boarding. To link it to your Staff Travel details would be very complicated as every ticket machine in the country would need to be linked to the RST database.

Personally, I don't find having to buy from a ticket office or guard overly inconvenient. But then my home and work stations both have ticket offices

Same could be said for any public railcards discount that's open to abuse if theyre not checked.

I don't mind using ticket office if there is one and it's open and there is no queue, but often not very convenient.

 

[theironroad]

I think thats why theironroad was suggesting an app and the use of m-tickets. No TVM issues then.

Indeed. There'd be no link to this or ticket offices. It'd be all between the app and RSTL and if I can bank and check Oyster journies online via apps then it can't be beyond the wit of humanity to sort this.

 

[pitdiver]

I think this isn't he trial mrpic was thinking about. I've not heard about advance fares getting priv and would be surprised if they did.

The priv only on anytime tickets was becoming crazy and it could often be cheaper to buy advance. The 'trial' has made a big difference and I'm happy to keep at that.

What I would like the RDG and RSTL to do is set out a way of buying tickets online , maybe m-tickets can a dedicated app that is linked to your RSTL staff travel records.

Don't know about Advance but I get Priv rate on Super Off Peak Day Return. EG Flitwick to Brighton costs me £5.45.

 

[Starmill]

I have no idea what you're talking about, since you didn't bother to actually explain it or to expand on your acronyms in the original post. I am sure these things have been clarified since - it's a long thread - but why should I go reading through it all while not having a clue what you're talking about if you're not going to explain it yourself?

 

[Shrimper]

Curiously, I think I get Priv on Tyne & wear (because it's basically ex-BR) but not on Manchester Metro (despite it being basically ex-BR).

I think.

I think it's down to whether the organisations are members of ATOC/RDG as they are now. Some preserved railways are members and have reciprocal rights for their staff as well. Metrolink are not part of the scheme so don't offer any Priv discounts; nor do their staff receive any.

 

[WarJan]

I understand that walking up to ticket machines with TFL staff or going to visitor centre that showing them a priv card they can set the discount on your Oyster card.
This has been done by some members of staff not entitled to the PTAC from EC and GN, is this correct

 

[Mag_seven]

I understand that walking up to ticket machines with TFL staff or going to visitor centre that showing them a priv card they can set the discount on your Oyster card.
This has been done by some members of staff not entitled to the PTAC from EC and GN, is this correct

To get PRIV loaded onto Oyster you need to take both your staff travel card and an authorised TfL Privilege Oyster Application (XX19) form to a LUL station.

To get the Privilege rate discount set on Oyster, you need to get an Oyster card and then complete a TfL Privilege Oyster Application (XX19) and submit it to RST.

Once authorised by RST, take the form together with your Staff Travel Card and Oyster card to a London Underground station, where a member of staff in the booking hall can set the Privilege rate discount on your Oyster card. You will need to ask the staff to set the ‘Priv All Rail’ discount as that is what it is called by TfL. It is ‘Priv All Rail’ for staff and child dependants and ‘Priv All Rail N’ for spouses/partners.

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/rst/travel-on-tfl.html

According to RSTL Priv on Oyster is only available to Safeguarded Staff.

 

[Theooboy]

Does the PTAC work on London overground if anyone knows

 

[WarJan]

To get PRIV loaded onto Oyster you need to take both your staff travel card and an authorised TfL Privilege Oyster Application (XX19) form to a LUL station.



https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/rst/travel-on-tfl.html

According to RSTL Priv on Oyster is only available to Safeguarded Staff.

You for one of them, are not understanding my query, just replying with some generic information that we all know.

Locking the other thread on the other forum that I have wrote I found unnecessary so you may as well delete the thread please.

What I am asking is that I have seen cases where people have attained this discount just using a card by walking up to the visitor centre and would like that clarified,

I take it, with the greatest respect, that you are not a member of staff within the industry, you’ll find that being a member of staff, with roles that don’t pay sky high wages vs the private sector, it would be a nice addition for tube travel but I am just asking this brief query but clearly the answer to my question is No.

Thank you

 

[WarJan]

Does the PTAC work on London overground if anyone knows

Yes PTAC works on all Oyster cards within any oyster area

 

[Theooboy]

Thanks

 

[WarJan]

Thanks

Yes a PTAC works on the whole network and beyond zone 6, it also includes NR travel within oyster which is a great benefit

 

[Trainguy90]

Since privatisation free/discounted travel are just staff perks you get for working for particular companies. Safeguarded staff are lucky on a number of things, but it’s just how it is. I’m on freight so travel wise I get naff all unless I’m on duty. We know what we sign up to when we get a job so should be happy with what we have, the railway overall still has some of the best perks and conditions in my view, although I did come from catering which is probably one of the worst

 

[CyrusWuff]

According to RSTL Priv on Oyster is only available to Safeguarded Staff.

There are four different varieties of Staff Travel discount that can be applied to an Oyster:

• Priv All - Provides a PRIV discount on PAYG fares on Docklands Light Railway, London Underground and National Rail (including London Overground and TfL Rail, for the avoidance of doubt) services and allows PRIV discounted Travelcard Seasons to be loaded onto the card, providing the expiry date is on or before the discount expires. This is available to Safeguarded Staff and Child dependants and requires presentation of the Staff Travel Card and authorised Form xx19.
• Priv All-N - Provides a PRIV discount on PAYG fares on Docklands Light Railway, London Underground and National Rail (including London Overground and TfL Rail, for the avoidance of doubt) services but doesn't allow discounted Travelcard Seasons to be loaded. This is available to spouses and partners, and again requires presentation of the Staff Travel Card and authorised Form xx19.
• Priv TfL Rail - Provides a PRIV discount on PAYG fares on Docklands Light Railway, London Overground, London Underground and TfL Rail services only. This is the version that applies to non-safeguarded GTR staff.
• Priv NR only - Provide a PRIV discount on PAYG fares on National Rail services (including London Overground and TfL Rail) only. This is available to all non-safeguarded Staff upon presentation of a TOC Privilege Card and does not require a form.

 

[Mag_seven]

You for one of them, are not understanding my query, just replying with some generic information that we all know.

Locking the other thread on the other forum that I have wrote I found unnecessary so you may as well delete the thread please.

What I am asking is that I have seen cases where people have attained this discount just using a card by walking up to the visitor centre and would like that clarified,

I take it, with the greatest respect, that you are not a member of staff within the industry, you’ll find that being a member of staff, with roles that don’t pay sky high wages vs the private sector, it would be a nice addition for tube travel but I am just asking this brief query but clearly the answer to my question is No.

Thank you

Only forum staff lock threads and I didn't request that the other thread was locked either.

I'm sorry that you appear to have taken offence at the information provided which I provided in good faith. And your completely wrong about my status.

Anyway I hope you now have the response you require.