Ideal use for class 365

[Prestige15]

If GTR is still planning to keep 19 365's, Would it be ideal if the remaining 21 were refitted with 3rd rail and sent to Southern to replace all of the 313's? Serving the Coastway and perhaps provide a new semi fast and direct coastway from Portsmouth/Southampton - Hastings via Brighton (Maybe Asford too if it gets electicfied)

 

[Clansman]

I disagree.

Replacing life expired rolling stock with near life expired rolling stock won't solve the problem of having to churn them away in the not so distant future, when you could settle the route for the next 20-40 years with newer off-lease rolling stock, or better yet, new built ones altogether.

 

[Kneedown]

At 22-23 years old i'd hardly describe 365's as "near life expired".
With a 40 year life expectancy they're good for another 17 years at least. Plenty of Sprinters to replace before we think of 90's era stock.

 

[Class465fan]

Either they cascade them to Northern rail or cascade them over to southeastern to work along with the 465s/466s (is that possible?).

 

[Class465fan]

(Maybe Asford too if it gets electicfied)

Speaking of the Ashford electrification, has work taken place yet?

 

[Wivenswold]

As above. Passengers see others getting brand new trains and will not be happy with cast-offs.

Every so often a generation of rolling stock becomes old hat and is replaced, it happened with Steam, non-corridor stock, slamdoors and now ex-BR EMUs that are non-DDA compliant but also have none of the things customers come to expect nowadays like wifi, aircon, information systems and uncomfortable seats. It's just the shifting of time, diesels will be next in the 2030s.

 

[NSEFAN]

As above. Passengers see others getting brand new trains and will not be happy with cast-offs.

Every so often a generation of rolling stock becomes old hat and is replaced, it happened with Steam, non-corridor stock, slamdoors and now ex-BR EMUs that are non-DDA compliant but also have none of the things customers come to expect nowadays like wifi, aircon, information systems and uncomfortable seats. It's just the shifting of time, diesels will be next in the 2030s.

It depends on the quality of the refurbishment. Aircon is seemingly possible to retrofit to Turbostars so the Networkers shouldn't be too hard by comparison, similarly for wifi. I've heard quite a few people talk about the "sleek, modern silver trains on Chiltern", of course refering to the Mk3s with original seating. They are surprised when I tell them that the stock is 1970s vintage!

In some cases, even tired stock is far superior to what it replaces; see class 319s replacing Pacer and Sprinter DMUs on Northern.

 

[Starmill]

This with the Southern 313 hate again. Aren't those units on lease until the end of the franchise? So looking at replacing them before that seems premature?

 

[D365]

We’ve had a number of fairly extensive discussions about the 365s recently, one of which can be found here.

 

[Darandio]

As above. Passengers see others getting brand new trains and will not be happy with cast-offs.

That is par for the course in many places, some only ever see cast offs. Don't see why it's any different in this case.

 

[MatthewRead]

The trouble is they don't have the 3rd rail shoegear it was removed when they ceased running on Southeastern metals in 2004 and would apparently be too expensive to re-install.

 

[Failed Unit]

That is par for the course in many places, some only ever see cast offs. Don't see why it's any different in this case.

To be honest in EMT I would love more cast offs of the 156 / 158 verity. They are still both very good trains.

Likewise GN users would rather have the 365s than either replacements but we have gone through this before.

If you replace the 313s on southern. Wait for the surplus 3rd rail stuff rather than refit shoes to 365s. We are not short of them. (Once SWR releases it)

 

[D365]

For all intents and purposes, the 365s are now AC only units. There’s virtually nil chance that any will be converted back.

 

[Lrd]

London Northwestern could take them in place of the 319s, which can go oop North with their mates

 

[Hadders]

I suspect they will all remain on Great Northern as they will be needed when the enhanced Thameslink timetable falls over and quickly needs to be rehashed in a similar way to Virgin's Operation Princess.

 

[Wivenswold]

I think Hadders is on to something there. They'll probably trickle back into service as spares and then stay. Giving the TOC the chance to say "We've listened, here's more seats".

 

[bspahh]

I think Hadders is on to something there. They'll probably trickle back into service as spares and then stay. Giving the TOC the chance to say "We've listened, here's more seats".

If and when the platforms are extended to take 8 car trains between Ely and Kings Lynn, would there be enough 387s to run longer trains, or would some 365s help?

 

[D365]

London Northwestern could take them in place of the 319s, which can go oop North with their mates

No reason to when the Aventras will replace them anyway.

To be fair, it is hard to keep track

 

[Bald Rick]

Speaking of the Ashford electrification, has work taken place yet?

Work? It is not even been studied in any detail!

It is very unlikely to be electrified, ever.

 

[MatthewRead]

London Northwestern could take them in place of the 319s, which can go oop North with their mates

That was once suggested on a previous thread which I created but it has since been locked down.

 

[D365]

That was once suggested on a previous thread which I created but it has since been locked down.

... and does not need to be reopened. WMT will be taking on an Aventra fleet of their own.

 

[DanNCL]

I suppose one use that they might be suited to is on that all shacks service between Newcastle and Berwick that SENRUG (South East Northumberland Rail User Group) want to see launched (and in my opinion probably wont happen for the foreseeable future...)

 

[physics34]

This with the Southern 313 hate again. Aren't those units on lease until the end of the franchise? So looking at replacing them before that seems premature?

yep its a wasted argument... the 313s are here to stay until 2021 and then until new stock is ordered. Agree 365s need a new home but so do many other classes of stock after 2020.
317s, 319s, 321s, 379s, 455s, 456s etc etc etc ...there doesnt seem to be a plan

 

[Kneedown]

To be honest in EMT I would love more cast offs of the 156 / 158 verity. They are still both very good trains.

Please no more! The ones we've got are falling to bits left right and centre!

 

[Failed Unit]

Please no more! The ones we've got are falling to bits left right and centre!

I know. That is why I would take anything. Anything is better than an overcrowded 153. My comment was more in the context a cast off is better than no train at all. But do look with Envy at the West Midlands who are about to get their 3rd generation of new trains.

Oh well back on topic.

 

[RichJF]

Could they go to EMT to operate Corby services when it's wired up?

 

[whhistle]

317s, 319s, 321s, 379s, 455s, 456s etc etc etc ...there doesnt seem to be a plan

All those apart from the 379s, could do with going to the scrap heap.
Old trains, simply not required any more.

People may tout they're "not old enough" but in this modern day and age, anything pushing on 30 years old is in the danger zone.

The 365s are still fairly moden though. Shame WMT don't take the whole fleet and get shot of their 323s. Corby is another potential home for a small fleet. I still think the 360s may go there though.

 

[Domh245]

Shame WMT don't take the whole fleet and get shot of their 323s.

Why on earth would they replace them with 365s when they've ordered a whole load of aventras to replace them?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 365s are still fairly moden though. Shame WMT don't take the whole fleet and get shot of their 323s. Corby is another potential home for a small fleet. I still think the 360s may go there though.

I think the Stansted Electrostars are a better bet for Corby.

 

[A0wen]

I think the Stansted Electrostars are a better bet for Corby.

+1 - have the added advantage of corridor end connections. Since the Corbys will almost certainly be 8 car formations, EMT won't want the expense of two train managers i.e. one in each unit. But there will still need to be some fare checking on the Corbys because north of Bedford the stations don't have ticket barriers.