Ideas for the Boris-backed Leeds-Manchester high speed route

[DanTrain]

moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ster-receives-pm-backing.186996/#post-4125546

Agreed, but it's a big step forward from May's government that didn't even discuss the issue. The possible downside is that it may distract from desirable Leeds and Manchester Station upgrades that could deliver benefits in the medium term.

Indred, personally I’d like to see a much larger scheme with a Liverpool - Hull high speed line with a connection up to Newcastle on a 140mph ECML, a decent HS2 connection to Sheffield with a triangular junction to Leeds/Hull and some sort of upgrade on Sheffield - Manchester (and by extension Liverpool). This could deliver real change to the North but requires serious commitment by a government (and sort of needs HS2 phase 2b in place as well).

 

[yoyothehobo]

Surely the only way to produce a high speed alignment is to have a twin bore dedicated tunnel direct from Manchester City Centre to Leeds, too much other stuff in the way on the surface. T'Pennine Base Tunnel. Surfacing far to the east of Leeds and West of Manchester carrying on to Leeds and Hull and the HS2 network north to Newcastle.

 

[47421]

From the Financial Times:

Northern leaders angered by ministers stance on rail promises
Bradford and Manchester accuse government of playing them off against each other

Greater Manchester mayor Andy Burnham and Susan Hinchcliffe, leader of Bradford council, hit out after Jake Berry, Northern Powerhouse minister, said the government was unlikely to fund both a proposed new central station in Bradford and the proposed £6bn redevelopment of Manchester Piccadilly station as part of the scheme.

“If you are pulling in £6bn for Manchester something has to give. My preference is for Bradford city centre. It is the youngest city in the UK with a skilled population that needs to be mobile. It is hard to find £6bn headroom in the business case [for Manchester as well],” Mr Berry told the FT.
...
Mr Berry stressed that it was for Transport for the North, a body that speaks for the region’s local authorities, to make the business case to government. It is working with HS2, which has costed an underground station in Manchester at £6bn. It has yet to publish the cost of a central Bradford station but it would require extensive tunnelling.

 

[MarkyT]

From the Financial Times:

But without a major Manchester improvement as well, NPR will have to go round through Victoria and Oxford Road via the Ordsall chord to reach the airport. I can see that working extremely well! If its the only way to get platforms 15/16 and Oxford Road improvements built then perhaps it might just work, but it will still be a very slow way through Manchester for what is meant to be an express service. I would be happier with a new tunnel instead of 15/16 for east-west expresses, with the Castlefield corridor then relegated to largely more locally-oriented services, including some via the Ordsall chord. If the NPR services can't get onto the HS2 alignment to the airport and thence Liverpool affordably, then surely that seriously damage the wider business case for the Phase 2b Manchester branch.

 

[Meerkat]

Are they really planning an HS2 station AND an underground NPR one?
Surely they should be the same station, with either HS2 going onto Leeds or a North Manchester Parkway somewhere?

 

[MarkyT]

Are they really planning an HS2 station AND an underground NPR one?
Surely they should be the same station, with either HS2 going onto Leeds or a North Manchester Parkway somewhere?

I believe they're looking at a two level station structure with NPR through platforms in the basement and HS2 terminal platforms above that. An alternative might be terminal platforms on both levels and an enforced reverse to go transpennine, or a wider single level terminal. To the south all platforms would merge into one throat and the tunnelled HS2 pair will be shared with NPR as far as a divergence to Liverpool, just after Manchester Airport.