Ideas/suggestions & other speculation for Okehampton / Exmouth lines

[Gloster]

As it looks as though the bridge across the A379 is single-track and the platform at Digby & Sowton is built on the formation, doubling to Topsham would probably be uneconomic. A turnback siding south of Digby & Sowton is probably the most that could be done on a reasonable budget. Even so, there might still be capacity problems.

Would it be possible to return the second siding at Exmouth Junction - visible on Google maps - to use. Although requiring some signalling and PW work, it might be a lot cheaper than the alternatives for a reasonable gain in capacity.

 

[MarkyT]

As it looks as though the bridge across the A379 is single-track and the platform at Digby & Sowton is built on the formation, doubling to Topsham would probably be uneconomic. A turnback siding south of Digby & Sowton is probably the most that could be done on a reasonable budget. Even so, there might still be capacity problems.

Would it be possible to return the second siding at Exmouth Junction - visible on Google maps - to use. Although requiring some signalling and PW work, it might be a lot cheaper than the alternatives for a reasonable gain in capacity.

Certainly would be an option, fully signalled in and out so there's no need for hand-point operation, which would need a shunter on duty. Being naughtily speculative, here's an Exmouth branch enhancement adding a terminal platform at Newcourt and a new Whipton station on a new double-track section from Polsloe Bridge. Combine with a similar terminating facility at Cranbrook on the LSWR main and large numbers of terminating trains from Okehampton, Barnstaple, Taunton etc could be handled, with the Exmouth Jn siding retained as a short turnback location for late-running of any of them. Newcourt terminators could be christened 'IKEA Expresses'

 

[sciisfun]

As it looks as though the bridge across the A379 is single-track and the platform at Digby & Sowton is built on the formation, doubling to Topsham would probably be uneconomic. A turnback siding south of Digby & Sowton is probably the most that could be done on a reasonable budget. Even so, there might still be capacity problems.

Would it be possible to return the second siding at Exmouth Junction - visible on Google maps - to use. Although requiring some signalling and PW work, it might be a lot cheaper than the alternatives for a reasonable gain in capacity.

double track the short length from exmouth junction to polsloe bridge, reopen the second platform after a bit of work to the old structure, then it can either be a terminating bay platform, or connect it in so it can be used in a normal up/down configuration

 

[21C101]

double track the short length from exmouth junction to polsloe bridge, reopen the second platform after a bit of work to the old structure, then it can either be a terminating bay platform, or connect it in so it can be used in a normal up/down configuration

with a suitable facing crossover it could perform both roles.

Doubling the first few hundred yards to the exmouth side of Polsloe also helps performance by stopping a train waitng for a late running train from Exmouth blocking the main line.

 

[Cowley]

with a suitable facing crossover it could perform both roles.

Doubling the first few hundred yards to the exmouth side of Polsloe also helps performance by stopping a train waitng for a late running train from Exmouth blocking the main line.

I like the idea of doing something with Polsloe Bridge, but I would say that rebuilding the down platform would probably swallow quite a bit of money bearing in mind that it hasn’t seen a train for many decades now and would have to be completely rebuilt on the top of an embankment that’s had very little maintenance (on the down side) in that time and will also have to have decent access incorporated into whatever design is settled on.
Not saying it’s impossible, but just because we can see the remnants of the old down platform in the undergrowth it doesn’t mean that it’s an easy job to put it back into use.
I’d love to know how solid that side of the formation is considering it hasn’t been used since the early 70s?

 

[Gloster]

Whatever the condition of the Down platform, which I think is an Exmouth Junction concrete one, I suspect that access would prove the most expensive element of bringing it back in to use. Despite having used the halt quite a few times in the early 1980s, I don’t remember much detail as it was always dark. (Stop on the cycle ride home from late shift, get a takeaway from the Chinese round the corner and then, if I had timed it right, catch a train to Central and save myself the slog up the hill.)

 

[Cowley]

Whatever the condition of the Down platform, which I think is an Exmouth Junction concrete one, I suspect that access would prove the most expensive element of bringing it back in to use. Despite having used the halt quite a few times in the early 1980s, I don’t remember much detail as it was always dark. (Stop on the cycle ride home from late shift, get a takeaway from the Chinese round the corner and then, if I had timed it right, catch a train to Central and save myself the slog up the hill.)

(That was a good Chinese ), but yes I agree Gloster.

 

[Townsend Hook]

If Network Rail are taking the line over and using it for both passengers and freight, then it looks like the Dartmoor Railway preservationists might be looking for a new home.....

......unless NR take a flexible attitude to standards compliance and a reasonable attitude to track access charges to allow Meldon to Okehampton (down platform) shuttles to continue.

What you would effectively end up with is a very similar situation to Matlock, where Peak Rail run over Network Rail infrastructure into a joint station. There’s plenty of precedent for such an arrangement, so fingers crossed, I guess!

 

[MarkyT]

What you would effectively end up with is a very similar situation to Matlock, where Peak Rail run over Network Rail infrastructure into a joint station. There’s plenty of precedent for such an arrangement, so fingers crossed, I guess!

The Dartmouth Steam Railway has a similar arrangement at Paignton where the steam trains run for a short distance over what is legally NR property across Sands Road level crossing and through the crossover between NR and DSR. The signalling block working for each of the parallel single lines is entirely independent however, both using TCB and colour lights in this case. The level crossing, train crew operated, is owned by NR and has dual controls with an auto raise feature.

 

[21C101]

The Dartmouth Steam Railway has a similar arrangement at Paignton where the steam trains run for a short distance over what is legally NR property across Sands Road level crossing and through the crossover between NR and DSR. The signalling block working for each of the parallel single lines is entirely independent however, both using TCB and colour lights in this case. The level crossing, train crew operated, is owned by NR and has dual controls with an auto raise feature.

good to hear

What you would effectively end up with is a very similar situation to Matlock, where Peak Rail run over Network Rail infrastructure into a joint station. There’s plenty of precedent for such an arrangement, so fingers crossed, I guess!

ditto

I don't think the joint services idea will matter who the MD is at any given time, it will be what the DfT (and the Treasury) wants only.

The MD of both TOCs promoting it and pointing out the financial benefits in terms of better stock and crew utilisation, as well as the significantly increased revenue a through service will bring over a shuttle (as studied and documented in the CPRE/Greengauge report) not to mention the availability of certain Tory MPs who have an unusually detailed knowledge of such issues to discuss it with the relevant ministers, will I suspect be music to the Treasurys and DfT's ears.

 

[adrock1976]

I like the idea of doing something with Polsloe Bridge, but I would say that rebuilding the down platform would probably swallow quite a bit of money bearing in mind that it hasn’t seen a train for many decades now and would have to be completely rebuilt on the top of an embankment that’s had very little maintenance (on the down side) in that time and will also have to have decent access incorporated into whatever design is settled on.
Not saying it’s impossible, but just because we can see the remnants of the old down platform in the undergrowth it doesn’t mean that it’s an easy job to put it back into use.
I’d love to know how solid that side of the formation is considering it hasn’t been used since the early 70s?

Regarding the disused platform at Polsloe Bridge, I recall from my visit there when walking from Pinhoe station that the disused platform is/was covered with a lot of Japanese Knotweed.

Japanese Knotweed is very difficult to get rid of as it is an invasive species.

 

[fgwrich]

Regarding the disused platform at Polsloe Bridge, I recall from my visit there when walking from Pinhoe station that the disused platform is/was covered with a lot of Japanese Knotweed.

Japanese Knotweed is very difficult to get rid of as it is an invasive species.

Indeed it is. The Victorian's might have brought us a lot of good ideas and inventions, but bringing the infamous (Reynoutria Japonica) over here for it's aesthetic purposes was not one of their best! Unfortunately it was highly regarded at the time for it's fast growing nature...

 

[Pinza-C55]

I’m surprised people aren’t more excited about this! A real branch line into the wilds reopening! It will open up Dartmoor and beyond to rail if they manage to build the parkway.

It's a great first start. Now the government needs to commit some money to reopening it all the way through to Bere Alston.

 

[Railcar]

Would the track to Okehampton and beyond have been part of 'the North Devon line' in 1900?

In The Hound Of The Baskervilles, the villain, Stapleton, having bought from Ross and Mangles, the dealers in the Fulham Road, 'the strongest and most savage' dog in their possession, takes it down to Dartmoor on 'the North Devon line'.

If the line is to be re-opened to passenger traffic, the link to an enduringly popular story might form an additional tourist draw.
'The Hound Line' ?

 

[randyrippley]

Would the track to Okehampton and beyond have been part of 'the North Devon line' in 1900?

In The Hound Of The Baskervilles, the villain, Stapleton, having bought from Ross and Mangles, the dealers in the Fulham Road, 'the strongest and most savage' dog in their possession, takes it down to Dartmoor on 'the North Devon line'.

If the line is to be re-opened to passenger traffic, the link to an enduringly popular story might form an additional tourist draw.
'The Hound Line' ?

Surely "The Branch of the Baskervilles"???

 

[Gloster]

Would the track to Okehampton and beyond have been part of 'the North Devon line' in 1900?

In The Hound Of The Baskervilles, the villain, Stapleton, having bought from Ross and Mangles, the dealers in the Fulham Road, 'the strongest and most savage' dog in their possession, takes it down to Dartmoor on 'the North Devon line'.

If the line is to be re-opened to passenger traffic, the link to an enduringly popular story might form an additional tourist draw.
'The Hound Line' ?

I think that the North Devon Line has always been, as far as the LSWR and Southern were concerned, the line to Barnstaple. One or two hints in The Hound suggest that it was this line that that Stapleton used. (The North Devon Line was also, somewhat loosely, used for the Taunton-Barnstaple line.)

As Michael Morpurgo lived in Iddesleigh to the north of Okehampton and appears to have got some of the original inspiration for his most famous book in the local pub, why not call it The War Horse Line? (Personally, I am not in favour of the current habit of tying in a line with some local connection.)

 

[Irascible]

(The North Devon Line was also, somewhat loosely, used for the Taunton-Barnstaple line.)

Which was mostly in Somerset!

I would imagine the Barnstaple and further being the "North Devon Line" too - either to Ilfracombe or Bideford/Torrington or both on top. Okehampton is a long way from North Devon.

 

[Railcar]

"The game's afoot, Watson!" Time for some detective work.

Holmes adds that Stapleton 'walked (the hound) a great distance across the moor so as to get it home without exciting any remarks'

If the 'North Devon line' proceeds from Exeter to Barnstaple then it is most likely that Stapleton got off at Yeoford, that being the closest to the Moor without forking left at Coleford Junction.

 

[DJ_K666]

I think that the North Devon Line has always been, as far as the LSWR and Southern were concerned, the line to Barnstaple. One or two hints in The Hound suggest that it was this line that that Stapleton used. (The North Devon Line was also, somewhat loosely, used for the Taunton-Barnstaple line.)

As Michael Morpurgo lived in Iddesleigh to the north of Okehampton and appears to have got some of the original inspiration for his most famous book in the local pub, why not call it The War Horse Line? (Personally, I am not in favour of the current habit of tying in a line with some local connection.)

The Baskervilles line? Has a good bark to it (Sorry)

 

[A0wen]

It's a great first start. Now the government needs to commit some money to reopening it all the way through to Bere Alston.

Which won't be cheap as Meldon viaduct will require some works (for "some" read "quite alot").

Perhaps it would be better to gauge whether there was actually demand to travel onto Bere Alston first ? Maybe introduce a bus which connects Okehampton and Gunnislake with through ticketing ?

Cost would be a fraction of rail reinstatement, but would have the merit of actually demonstrating whether there is demand for such a service ?

And don't go citing 'Dawlish Avoidance' - that will be far better dealt with by building a new line in-land from Starcross, which will have the added benefit of speeding up Exeter - Plymouth journeys.

 

[Irascible]

The 5mi to Tavistock first perhaps - but that is rather offtopic.

Has theer been another instance of a formerly somewhat preserved - or at least privately owned - line being taken back into national ownership?

 

[Pinza-C55]

Which won't be cheap as Meldon viaduct will require some works (for "some" read "quite alot").

Perhaps it would be better to gauge whether there was actually demand to travel onto Bere Alston first ? Maybe introduce a bus which connects Okehampton and Gunnislake with through ticketing ?

Cost would be a fraction of rail reinstatement, but would have the merit of actually demonstrating whether there is demand for such a service ?

And don't go citing 'Dawlish Avoidance' - that will be far better dealt with by building a new line in-land from Starcross, which will have the added benefit of speeding up Exeter - Plymouth journeys.

Sadly my post removed as it was apparently "speculation" so in future I will confine myself to matters of fact.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

double track the short length from exmouth junction to polsloe bridge, reopen the second platform after a bit of work to the old structure, then it can either be a terminating bay platform, or connect it in so it can be used in a normal up/down configuration

Polsloe Bridge is literally a nightmare and need demolishing a rebuilding. The second platform (and the main platform for that matter) is crumbling away and the steel reinforcment can be seen.

 

[MarkLong]

What kind of loading gauge and top speed for Exeter to Okehampton section when they reopen for regular passenger service?

 

[Irascible]

Is the track layout at Okehampton likely to change?

 

[221129]

Is the track layout at Okehampton likely to change?

Unlikely.

What kind of loading gauge and top speed for Exeter to Okehampton section when they reopen for regular passenger service?

Presumably the same as it is now...

 

[PHILIPE]

It still seems to be too early to discuss train services further in the absence of any information on services unless anybody has any further information.

EDIT:- I've just realised I saw a post in the Infrastructure thread(to which I used for a QUOTE) of 8 per day and 6 per Sunday. Exeter St Davids (using Platform 2 This would allow the service to be self contained and worked by 1 x 150. Any future alterations could and extensions might be possible in the future with changed lay outs which have been talked about.

 

[REVUpminster]

I would expect it to use platform 2 at St David's. Could go to Exmouth Junction. I am sure I read somewhere they were reinstating the second siding.
With new track and few stops the line speed should be higher.

Ideally if they moved the trailing crossover at Crediton to Coleford Junction there would be a nice stretch of double track. Yeoford has a lot of newish houses and the potential for more and would need it's second platform reinstated.

 

[davetheguard]

I'm not sure where I've got this from, but I thought there was some plan for a handful (a couple a day?) of SWR trains, on arrival at Exeter St. David's from Waterloo, to have a crew change and become GWR trains on to Okehampton?. Advantages are through operation from Exeter Central at key times of day, but the downside of course is the possibility of importing delays from the long single line sections beyond Salisbury.

Both companies are First Group owned, which might make things easier, and presumably 159s are not that different to 158s in terms of traction knowledge.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not sure where I've got this from, but I thought there was some plan for a handful (a couple a day?) of SWR trains, on arrival at Exeter St. David's from Waterloo, to have a crew change and become GWR trains on to Okehampton?. Advantages are through operation from Exeter Central at key times of day, but the downside of course is the possibility of importing delays from the long single line sections beyond Salisbury.

Both companies are First Group owned, which might make things easier, and presumably 159s are not that different to 158s in terms of traction knowledge.

Was it a plan, or a forum member’s good idea? I’m not sure this is the right place to discuss service proposals though...