Ideas to reopen the leisure & tourism sectors if social distancing is to continue

[DB]

This thread is about coming up with ideas for those industries - so speculate away yourself if you wish!

Sooner or later it's going to go back to normal - the issue is how much damage to these industries the government will do before that happens.

 

[northernchris]

Airlines, yes, they should probably be closed down in an orderly manner.

Only yesterday easyJet announced they were increasing their schedule due to better than predicted demand, so there's still some hope!

 

[DB]

They are not creating jobs at the moment because they are still expecting this to be a short term shock that will be reversed.
Once the reality of the situation that the Government has signed us all up for becomes clear, some form of normality will reassert itself.

You've just told us that normality won't reassert itself a few posts up! The government hasn't 'signed us up' for anything. For the time being people are going along with it, but the longer it drags on the more dissent there will be.

 

[HSTEd]

You've just told us that normality won't reassert itself a few posts up!

Some form of normality in terms of people will act like their situation is normality.

Not that that normality is the same as the pre pandemic normality.

The government hasn't 'signed us up' for anything. For the time being people are going along with it, but the longer it drags on the more dissent there will be.

It has signed us up to driving the economy into the ground and damaging tens of millions of people to save a few hundred thousand pensioners from dying a few years early.
Thats the reality.

 

[DB]

Some form of normality in terms of people will act like their situation is normality.

Not that that normality is the same as the pre pandemic normality.

Society is not going to completely change itself just because of this. nearly everybody is sick of it and wants normality back - the only major diffentiator is that some think the measures are justified (for now) and some think they are a massive over-reaction.

 

[Bantamzen]

There seems to be some level of enthusiasm to kill off an entire industry, deprive millions of people of leisure activities, and throw hundreds of thousands onto the dole. Well I trust those people are cancelling all their leisure activities for the long term, and are committing themselves to staying indoors for the good of others? Because it would be highly hypocritical for them to wish misery on others but not themselves...

 

[HSTEd]

There seems to be some level of enthusiasm to kill off an entire industry, deprive millions of people of leisure activities, and throw hundreds of thousands onto the dole. Well I trust those people are cancelling all their leisure activities for the long term, and are committing themselves to staying indoors for the good of others? Because it would be highly hypocritical for them to wish misery on others but not themselves...

All the leisure activities I have traditionally had outside my house are currently forbidden by the state.

I don't even get to get out of my house to go to my office any more, again because my functionally state owned employer has forbidden it.

 

[Bantamzen]

All the leisure activities I have traditionally had outside my house are currently forbidden by the state.

I don't even get to get out of my house to go to my office any more, again because my functionally state owned employer has forbidden it.

So everyone else has to suffer, many losing their jobs? I'm sorry if you can't do the things you usually do, but that doesn't mean that everyone else can't do theirs. I can't get to see my family right now, but I don't & won't begrudge people going on holiday.

 

[HSTEd]

So everyone else has to suffer, many losing their jobs? I'm sorry if you can't do the things you usually do, but that doesn't mean that everyone else can't do theirs. I can't get to see my family right now, but I don't & won't begrudge people going on holiday.

Why do you think that I want these things to stop?
The state has functionally, through one means or another, destroyed these industries.

It simply continues to pour money into the corpses to try and avoid the public realising what it has done.

 

[DB]

Why do you think that I want these things to stop?
The state has functionally, through one means or another, destroyed these industries.

It simply continues to pour money into the corpses to try and avoid the public realising what it has done.

So what's the alternative? Put loads on the dole. How is that an improvement?

 

[HSTEd]

So what's the alternative? Put loads on the dole. How is that an improvement?

Because very large scale unemployment does not persist forever, it never has done.
We are simply pouring money away trying to retain the world that was lost when the government decided lockdowns were the order of the day.

Those people will end up on the dole eventually, when the government finally decides to pull the plug.

 

[Bikeman78]

Society is not going to completely change itself just because of this. nearly everybody is sick of it and wants normality back - the only major diffentiator is that some think the measures are justified (for now) and some think they are a massive over-reaction.

Today I tried to get a table in Miller and Carter. Every Monday to Wednesday evening already booked up in both restaurants. Clearly people want to get out. As the weeks and months go by, more and more people will say sod this and take their chances.

 

[northernchris]

Today I tried to get a table in Miller and Carter. Every Monday to Wednesday evening already booked up in both restaurants. Clearly people want to get out. As the weeks and months go by, more and more people will say sod this and take their chances.

It's great to know many people are taking advantage of the offer, and hopefully the scheme will achieve its aim of protecting jobs in leisure and hospitality

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder if there's any chance that the Government might extend it (eat out to help out), as it seems to be working well. I can't imagine it's one of the more expensive actions taken in response to this virus, and it's actually supporting employment, rather than funding people not working (be it through furlough/out of work benefits etc).

 

[Richard Scott]

It has signed us up to driving the economy into the ground and damaging tens of millions of people to save a few hundred thousand pensioners from dying a few years early.
Thats the reality.

Would change to a few thousand months early. Most of the pensioners who's life expectancy is in years would probably get over this.

 

[HSTEd]

Would change to a few thousand months early. Most of the pensioners who's life expectancy is in years would probably get over this.

Hard to get hard data, and we won't have it for years.

The interesting thing will be what happens to mortality rates in care homes for the next handful of years.
After all, whilst mean survival time in a care home is ~3-4 years, median survival is 14 months.

 

[Jamiescott1]

It's great to know many people are taking advantage of the offer, and hopefully the scheme will achieve its aim of protecting jobs in leisure and hospitality

I guess the ultimate marker is to see how much weekly takings have increased if at all or is it just shifting the business from a weekend to earlier in the week

 

[AM9]

Hard to get hard data, and we won't have it for years.

The interesting thing will be what happens to mortality rates in care homes for the next handful of years.
After all, whilst mean survival time in a care home is ~3-4 years, median survival is 14 months.

Of course the consequences of contracting COVID-19 are not as simple as survive or die. There are many who managed not to die but who will require considerably enhanced support, - possibly for years ahead, maybe for the rest of their lives. That won't come cheap!

 

[DB]

Of course the consequences of contracting COVID-19 are not as simple as survive or die. There are many who managed not to die but who will require considerably enhanced support, - possibly for years ahead, maybe for the rest of their lives. That won't come cheap!

There has been the occasional report of people who have potentially long-term complications, but not sure where the view that it's 'many' came from.

 

[HSTEd]

Of course the consequences of contracting COVID-19 are not as simple as survive or die. There are many who managed not to die but who will require considerably enhanced support, - possibly for years ahead, maybe for the rest of their lives. That won't come cheap!

There is only a relatively narrow field of secondary effects from disease that cost large amounts of money.
They have to be severe enough to significantly impair the patient, but not severe enough to substantially shorten their lives.

The fact that despite many millions of survivors we are not completely swamped with people with secondary effect sindicates the economic burden is not that bad

 

[AM9]

There is only a relatively narrow field of secondary effects from disease that cost large amounts of money.
They have to be severe enough to significantly impair the patient, but not severe enough to substantially shorten their lives.

The fact that despite many millions of survivors we are not completely swamped with people with secondary effect sindicates the economic burden is not that bad

There were/are quite a few whose health once released from hospital and have not returned to work. A non-trivial proportion of them will require extended support.

 

[Bantamzen]

Of course the consequences of contracting COVID-19 are not as simple as survive or die. There are many who managed not to die but who will require considerably enhanced support, - possibly for years ahead, maybe for the rest of their lives. That won't come cheap!

There are many people whose treatments got suspended or cancelled, or indeed missed out on treatment because the NHS was re-focused towards covid prioritisation. But I guess they don't matter as much.

There has been the occasional report of people who have potentially long-term complications, but not sure where the view that it's 'many' came from.

Indeed, it does seem that people at latching onto these occasional reports and trying to make more of them than is actually the case. And its also worth remembering that complications as a result of a disease is far from unique to covid.

 

[AM9]

... Indeed, it does seem that people at latching onto these occasional reports and trying to make more of them than is actually the case. And its also worth remembering that complications as a result of a disease is far from unique to covid.

COVID-19 has brought a whole new range of chronic conditions, many of which there is little knowledge of the long-term effects and how to deal with them. So all of those stricken people should stop just 'latching on to them'.

 

[Bantamzen]

COVID-19 has brought a whole new range of chronic conditions, many of which there is little knowledge of the long-term effects and how to deal with them. So all of those stricken people should stop just 'latching on to them'.

As I said, all diseases come with potential complications, as does shutting down the NHS to pretty much only covid and emergency services.

 

[AM9]

As I said, all diseases come with potential complications, as does shutting down the NHS to pretty much only covid and emergency services.

But as I said, "... many of which there is little knowledge of the long-term effects and how to deal with them." Most of the other diseases are already within the shpere of health knowledge and treatment. Nobody here knows how far that will scale up to impact all health services.
You can have your last word now.

 

[Bantamzen]

But as I said, "... many of which there is little knowledge of the long-term effects and how to deal with them." Most of the other diseases are already within the shpere of health knowledge and treatment. Nobody here knows how far that will scale up to impact all health services.
You can have your last word now.

Aaahhh, thanks. You're such a sweetheart….

But seriously, we probably already know some of the possible long term effects. Its been around for at least 8 months, and we had a peak of infections almost 4 months ago. So if there really was many people suffering many long term effects, that would becoming clear now. However thus far reports are sporadic, which is true of other diseases. Like I said, there are those amongst us trying very hard to make this far worse than it actually might be (and that was the last word!).

 

[yorksrob]

I do think that there should be a scheme whereby people who've spent a sufficient amount/proportion of their income on leisure activities within the British economy, should be able to claim a rebate.

I would include off-peak rail travel within this scheme.

 

[Spineynorman]

In terms of leisure I was looking forward to a day at one of the cricket pilots (1,000 spectators in a 25,000 capacity stadium), all outdoors, no concourses necessary to traverse, distancing no problem but that has been halted. I am struggling to fathom how that can pose more of a risk to myself or others than a pub but maybe I'm missing something ? Just wondering on the priorities here - does the pub industry shout louder than the Cricket authorities ? does it have more of an economic effect so that's the priority ? I'm giving that as an example of just one aspect of our lives that I feel could start up relatively safely and I'm sure there are many others that might just help a few people whose own "passions / interests" are gone and their lives quite hollow at present. Not a problem for me and in the grand scheme of things obviously not as important as saving people's lives but sometimes little things help.

 

[yorksrob]

In terms of leisure I was looking forward to a day at one of the cricket pilots (1,000 spectators in a 25,000 capacity stadium), all outdoors, no concourses necessary to traverse, distancing no problem but that has been halted. I am struggling to fathom how that can pose more of a risk to myself or others than a pub but maybe I'm missing something ? Just wondering on the priorities here - does the pub industry shout louder than the Cricket authorities ? does it have more of an economic effect so that's the priority ? I'm giving that as an example of just one aspect of our lives that I feel could start up relatively safely and I'm sure there are many others that might just help a few people whose own "passions / interests" are gone and their lives quite hollow at present. Not a problem for me and in the grand scheme of things obviously not as important as saving people's lives but sometimes little things help.

That's a shame to hear. I'm hoping for a return of non-league football, so cricket should be a good pre-runner.

 

[DB]

COVID-19 has brought a whole new range of chronic conditions, many of which there is little knowledge of the long-term effects and how to deal with them. So all of those stricken people should stop just 'latching on to them'.

Examples?