Ideas to reopen the leisure & tourism sectors if social distancing is to continue

[Bletchleyite]

So not great for leisure in Scotland at all, though I can see ‘school holidays’ (start of July) leading to pressure from leisure businesses and also punters saying ‘why can’t I go to a caravan park in the Cairngorms’? People seem already to be voting with their feet, a little early IMO, on leisure travel and socialising more generally - admittedly that’s mostly personal observation but that is how it seems.

I certainly think there will be a lot of bitterness if the English can take a summer camping holiday and the Scots can't, which seems to be looking likely.

That said, Scotland's early relaxation has one thing that people would like in preference to what England presently has - any two households will be able to meet in public, not just two people. That brings families back together, and is what a huge majority of people want at the moment (even if it so happens it'd make no odds to me because the other household I would be most likely to meet in public is, like mine, also of one person, so the English rules allow me that too). The Scottish ones allow it in the garden, that said.

 

[sheff1]

Overall, there are two ways to manage capacity at something that has limited capacity - queueing or reservations. The former presents a danger, the latter does not. Therefore, reservations are clearly the way to manage anything that has limited capacity during something like COVID where a queue may itself pose a risk.

Why does queuing present a danger ? It is what people have been doing for over two months now outside supermarkets, banks, post offices, small shops, takeaways etc as all these have limited capacity (actual or self-imposed).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why does queuing present a danger ? It is what people have been doing for over two months now outside supermarkets, banks, post offices, small shops, takeaways etc as all these have limited capacity (actual or self-imposed).

It's higher risk than those people being at home or sat in their cars. Indeed, Asda are now trialling virtual queueing (which is basically a timeslot reservation, if I read it rightly) to allow the latter.

 

[sheff1]

It's higher risk than those people being at home or sat in their cars. Indeed, Asda are now trialling virtual queueing (which is basically a timeslot reservation, if I read it rightly) to allow the latter.

I must surely have misunderstood, but that reads as though Asda are intending to only admit people who arrive by car - if so, yet another blow to public transport (as being discussed on another thread)

I still cannot see why queuing outside a cafe, restaurant, pub etc is any different to queuing outside a shop, bank etc. Yes the risk is less if you stay at home but is there really a serious risk in the current queuing arrangements ?

 

[Bantamzen]

I must surely have misunderstood, but that reads as though Asda are intending to only admit people who arrive by car - if so, yet another blow to public transport (as being discussed on another thread)

I still cannot see why queuing outside a cafe, restaurant, pub etc is any different to queuing outside a shop, bank etc. Yes the risk is less if you stay at home but is there really a serious risk in the current queuing arrangements ?

Well if that is the case then Asda are about to lose a lot of custom.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well if that is the case then Asda are about to lose a lot of custom.

I wouldn't be too hasty, I see no reason why virtual queueing (basically "take a number" in some form) or reservations should require a car.

 

[Bantamzen]

I wouldn't be too hasty, I see no reason why virtual queueing (basically "take a number" in some form) or reservations should require a car.

If you are arriving by public transport, or even just on a lunchbreak, you're going to have to hang around somewhere....

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you are arriving by public transport, or even just on a lunchbreak, you're going to have to hang around somewhere....

You can go and find the most distant part of the car park rather than precisely 2m from the next person.

 

[Bantamzen]

You can go and find the most distant part of the car park rather than precisely 2m from the next person.

<Shakes head and walks slowly away.....>

 

[Bletchleyite]

<Shakes head and walks slowly away.....>

...to the far corner of the car park

Do you actually like queueing? I don't get why people wouldn't prefer reservations in preference to that.

Queueing is an utter waste of my valuable time. If I can reserve use of a limited resource, that means I can be doing something else while I wait for my allocated time.

 

[Bantamzen]

...to the far corner of the car park

Do you actually like queueing? I don't get why people wouldn't prefer reservations in preference to that.

Queueing is an utter waste of my valuable time. If I can reserve use of a limited resource, that means I can be doing something else while I wait for my allocated time.

And there it is, finally! You've admitted why you are all into compulsory reservations, because it suits you! Thank you, finally, for your honesty!

However, not everyone's lives are so easily & neatly packaged into a series of pre-bookings, and that's why your ideas on them won't always work, and sometimes will make life even worse.

For the record I hate queuing, I much prefer a system whereby you arrive at a supermarket, go in, get what you need, pay & then get on your way. If Asda decide that you've got to book a slot, then forget it, my business will go elsewhere.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Pubs to open between 2pm and 4pm Tuesday to Thursday for a little while at first. Apologies if this or similar has been suggested upthread.
Too late for most to pop in on lunch break if working roughly office hours from home nearby, but too early for most early shift to pop in after they're finished. Mondays and Fridays remain closed as many are only doing 4-day weeks for the foreseeable future so that would mean more footfall as people frequent on their weekday off.

 

[Ianno87]

And there it is, finally! You've admitted why you are all into compulsory reservations, because it suits you! Thank you, finally, for your honesty!

However, not everyone's lives are so easily & neatly packaged into a series of pre-bookings, and that's why your ideas on them won't always work, and sometimes will make life even worse.

For the record I hate queuing, I much prefer a system whereby you arrive at a supermarket, go in, get what you need, pay & then get on your way. If Asda decide that you've got to book a slot, then forget it, my business will go elsewhere.

Problem with virtual queuing is people requesting a place and then not using it. So then people actually queuing end up being assigned an entry time much later than is actually necessary.

I've weirdly enjoyed the physical queue to get into the supermarket lately; it's just a few minutes of standing still, doing nothing, which is a precious resource at the moment! And the reward is a near-empty supermarket to negotiate without having to wait at crowded tills.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the record I hate queuing, I much prefer a system whereby you arrive at a supermarket, go in, get what you need, pay & then get on your way. If Asda decide that you've got to book a slot, then forget it, my business will go elsewhere.

And I prefer that normally, too. But that just isn't possible at the moment.

I similarly prefer a walk-up railway, but where I am effectively guaranteed travel even if there's no seat. That's off the agenda at the moment, too.

I definitely prefer reservations than the risk of turning up and being turned away or having to wait in a queue.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Problem with virtual queuing is people requesting a place and then not using it. So then people actually queuing end up being assigned an entry time much later than is actually necessary.

I've weirdly enjoyed the physical queue to get into the supermarket lately; it's just a few minutes of standing still, doing nothing, which is a precious resource at the moment! And the reward is a near-empty supermarket to negotiate without having to wait at crowded tills.

I'd agree with that wholeheartedly. It's been noted by a few people I've spoken to that they have been able to browse the shelves in more comfort since the social distancing/queuing measures have been in force.

 

[Bantamzen]

And I prefer that normally, too. But that just isn't possible at the moment.

I similarly prefer a walk-up railway, but where I am effectively guaranteed travel even if there's no seat. That's off the agenda at the moment, too.

I definitely prefer reservations than the risk of turning up and being turned away or having to wait in a queue.

But it will be sooner rather than later. Everyone seems to be working on the assumption that distancing is here for a while, yet signs are starting to show that businesses that could not possibly operate under a 2m, or for that matter 1m minimum distancing are starting to work on start-up plans. So whilst Walmart, sorry Asda try out their let's fill up their car parks full of angry punters waiting for permission to approach the store, other businesses are clearly getting a message to get ready, even if it means some punitive measures to appease the bean counters and neurotics.

 

[Carlisle]

I definitely prefer reservations than the risk of turning up and being turned away or having to wait in a queue.

That’s fine with rail as the nature of how it’s financed means governments ultimately cover whatever losses occur from becoming reservation only, but reopening pubs with similar restrictions wouldn’t be viable for all that many of them

 

[Bantamzen]

A huge blow to the UK tourism industry yesterday as Specialist Leisure Group fell into administration.

About 2,500 jobs have been lost and 64,000 bookings cancelled with the collapse into administration of Specialist Leisure Group.

The hotel and travel company included well-known coach holiday brands Shearings and National Holidays.

Trade organisation Abta said the company, which specialised in products for the over-50s, was "significantly impacted" by the coronavirus pandemic.

One hotel owner predicted its demise would leave "a void in the market".

Abta said the company had struggled to provide thousands of refunds for cancelled trips.

It added that the vast majority of cancelled bookings were coach package holidays, which are financially protected, and customers with these bookings would receive a full refund.

The Specialist Leisure Group, based in Wigan, also operated Caledonian Travel and hotel businesses such as Bay Hotels, Coast and Country Hotels and Country Living Hotels.

'Gutted'

The firm said on its website that all tours, cruises, holidays and hotel breaks had been cancelled and would not be rescheduled, blaming the impact of the pandemic.

Employee Matthew Herbert said he was "gutted" upon hearing the news.

"It'll take a while for this wound to heal. To my colleagues, good luck, stay safe, stay strong," he wrote on Twitter.

Richard Perry, who owns the Silversands Hotel in Blackpool, has worked with National Holidays and Caledonian Travel for 10 years and said they had been "very successful and brought lots of people" to the hotel.

Mr Perry said he was owed £6,500 by National and would have "to look at our business model again as National supplied around 60% of our trade".

He described the group's collapse as "a great shame" and believes there "will be a void now in the market especially for pensioners who can no longer travel abroad".

Harry Carter, 71, and his wife Gillian have been regular National Holidays customers for years.

Mr Carter said: "I'm upset about the news. Never in all my years of using them have we ever had a bad experience.

"You get on the coach and you meet some very interesting people, and the service you get from the driver is first-class.

"It's like a big family."

John de Vial, Abta's director of membership and financial services, said: "Today is a very sad day for these customers and the thousands of staff who will have lost their jobs.

"The fact that two such well-known brands with a loyal customer base have had to call in administrators is a stark indication of the pressure that the holiday industry is under as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

"Abta has repeatedly highlighted to the government the urgency of the situation and the need to set out a co-ordinated strategy with clearer communication if it wants to help avoid significant job losses and support companies to weather the storm."

Other coach companies sent messages of support.

Runcorn-based Anthony's Travel mourned the loss of a firm said in a tweet Shearings was "long-associated with the golden age of coach travel and UK tourism".



Teesside-based Skelton Coaches urged the government to "help the coach and tour industry before it's all gone".Atol, the government-run financial protection scheme, said it would be contacting the small number of customers with flight-inclusive packages, which would be protected.

Atol spokesman Andrew McConnell said: "This is a particularly sad day for customers and employees of Shearings Holidays Ltd, a long-standing business and well-known UK travel company."

This will almost certainly send shockwaves through the industry, especially on the back of the government insisting on quarantining almost all people arriving into this country after 8th June. We are literally watching the collapse of our entire economy now, and something needs to be done really urgently.

 

[Butts]

A huge blow to the UK tourism industry yesterday as Specialist Leisure Group fell into administration.



This will almost certainly send shockwaves through the industry, especially on the back of the government insisting on quarantining almost all people arriving into this country after 8th June. We are literally watching the collapse of our entire economy now, and something needs to be done really urgently.

Although regrettable it's hardly "A Thomas Cook Affair" and unlikely to send "shockwaves through the industry".

Wait till Virgin Atlantic go (which is a possibility) then I may agree with you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wait till Virgin Atlantic go (which is a possibility) then I may agree with you.

Virgin Atlantic is a small, unimportant airline which the brand assigns significance.

Wait until either BA or easyJet goes - then worry.

 

[Bantamzen]

Although regrettable it's hardly "A Thomas Cook Affair" and unlikely to send "shockwaves through the industry".

Wait till Virgin Atlantic go (which is a possibility) then I may agree with you.

As far as the UK tourist trade goes this is a big deal, a lot of businesses rely on the tourists they generate. Three hotels in Whitby & Scarbourgh have already closed as a direct result, and many more are likely to follow.

Losing VA would be a blow, but their slots would be quickly snapped up by other operators.

 

[Butts]

Just heard on the Radio Hertz have filed for bankruptcy, if true that is a big player.

 

[Huntergreed]

Virgin Atlantic is a small, unimportant airline which the brand assigns significance.

Wait until either BA or easyJet goes - then worry.

Whilst I do agree, I fear that the government won't take any action until one of these big names does eventually go, and by that point the damage will be done.

I'm quite shocked that the government seem to either be unaware or turning a blind eye to how much damage this is actually doing to the economy and these industries in particular, now that the first peak is over with we really need to think about how we can get the country moving again, as if we don't then the damage will be on a scale much greater than anything the virus would have caused.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm definitely planning on booking a couple of overnight stays once hospitality comes back. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

 

[Jayden99]

Whilst I do agree, I fear that the government won't take any action until one of these big names does eventually go, and by that point the damage will be done.

I'm quite shocked that the government seem to either be unaware or turning a blind eye to how much damage this is actually doing to the economy and these industries in particular, now that the first peak is over with we really need to think about how we can get the country moving again, as if we don't then the damage will be on a scale much greater than anything the virus would have caused.

This is going to sound callous, especially as an ex-airline industry worker, but flying really shouldn't go back to it's previous unending growth. Any government bailout should enforce some pretty serious downsizing and limits on flying because what we're going through now is nothing compared to what's to come with climate change. I do want to stress though that along side this the government should be investing in a system of job creation, austerity isn't going to dig us out of this one and working people are better for the economy than people out of work

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just heard on the Radio Hertz have filed for bankruptcy, if true that is a big player.

Chapter 11, which is a different game in the US. Most companies come out of Chapter 11, not so UK style bankruptcy which is an out and out collapse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is going to sound callous, especially as an ex-airline industry worker, but flying really shouldn't go back to it's previous unending growth. Any government bailout should enforce some pretty serious downsizing and limits on flying because what we're going through now is nothing compared to what's to come with climate change. I do want to stress though that along side this the government should be investing in a system of job creation, austerity isn't going to dig us out of this one and working people are better for the economy than people out of work

I do agree. There is one good way of creating jobs in the transport sector which may suit - the railway - and that's conveniently under Government control too. How about, for a start, an OBS on every currently DOO train? It would be a highly popular move with the public too.

 

[FQTV]

Just heard on the Radio Hertz have filed for bankruptcy, if true that is a big player.

Chapter 11, which is a different game in the US. Most companies come out of Chapter 11, not so UK style bankruptcy which is an out and out collapse.

The April lease payments on some or all (not sure which) of their US daily rental fleet were deferred until May 22nd, so they filed for bankruptcy protection yesterday to avoid those payments again and to allow them to ‘restructure’.

They’ve got about USD19bn of debt, USD1bn cash and about USD14bn of security, the security being the vehicle fleet.

So, they’re out of bed by about USD4bn. However, if used car values fall, future lease rates will increase, and Hertz is heavily exposed to the airport market, of course. So, you can see that the short to medium prospects don’t look good with limited cash, existing debt, increasing unit costs and depressed turnover.

Note that many non-airport (and some airport) Hertz rental stations are franchises, so even if Hertz did cease trading, the franchisee could potentially just reflag to Avis (say), or make use of a white label booking system and hoist a ‘Bob’s Bangers’ sign outside and carry on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm normally opposed to Chapter 11 as a thing, because it allows (mostly large) companies to get away with not paying their debts to (mostly small) suppliers and yet continue trading with the shareholders not losing out. However, this situation seems made for it - just put everything on hold until it's clear in what form resumption will be possible, and then either restart or liquidate. It would have worked well for (going back to the top) major tour coach/hotel operators.

I'd support it being offered as an option in the UK in the short term only - maybe a one year sunsetted law.

 

[greyman42]

Whilst I do agree, I fear that the government won't take any action until one of these big names does eventually go, and by that point the damage will be done.

I'm quite shocked that the government seem to either be unaware or turning a blind eye to how much damage this is actually doing to the economy and these industries in particular, now that the first peak is over with we really need to think about how we can get the country moving again, as if we don't then the damage will be on a scale much greater than anything the virus would have caused.

I feel we are already tipping over that point and I get the impression that so does Rishi Sunak.