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If all of the supermarket chains in the UK except for Aldi and Lidl disappeared, would you care?

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Mojo

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All bananas still in plastic bags in my local. Yesterday I was so annoyed by their tomatoes that I counted the display: half a case of loose tomatoes, 17 and a half of plastic. And there's never any chance of any loose potatoes other than baking or Jersey royals. Morrisons are the cheapest of the big four but their much-vaunted "Market Street" is a deluded nightmarish homage to single-use plastic waste! Oh for a late night greengrocery!
Yes they are in plastic bags everywhere but at least that’s recyclable (not that it makes it right mind). Morrisons is the best of a bad bunch in my opinion though.

Dreadful shame that nature didn’t come up with a way to protect the bit of the banana that gets eaten. Oh wait!
 
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Mojo

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That's to punish you for not juggling your shopping over to the packing shelf on the wall/window behind. I only know this because I grew up with shops laid out like that, rather than the British/American style of long trays and staff waiting while you pack before you pay - I don't think I've ever seen anything in the pallet shops to tell you to do this.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone pack their bags on the shelf! People still seem to pack like they would at a normal shop, even foreigners who might be more familiar with the concept than British customers! My local Aldi doesn’t even have anywhere to pack your shopping unless you have a trolley yet I’ve even seen people balancing their bags on the bit at the end of the checkout trying to pack.

There’s a new Lidl near a family member’s house that doesn’t even have the packing shelf even though there would be room for it, instead they have a moveable divider and a Chip & Pin machine on a long pole, meaning that they can start to serve a second customer when the other person is still packing. Our local one which is quite new also has this but it still has the shelf but I’ve never seen either used!
 

ashkeba

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Yes they are in plastic bags everywhere but at least that’s recyclable (not that it makes it right mind). Morrisons is the best of a bad bunch in my opinion though.
Agree on the last, but a lot of the plastci produce wrap in my local is that crinkly stuff they won't accept for recycling.
 

dgl

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone pack their bags on the shelf! People still seem to pack like they would at a normal shop, even foreigners who might be more familiar with the concept than British customers! My local Aldi doesn’t even have anywhere to pack your shopping unless you have a trolley yet I’ve even seen people balancing their bags on the bit at the end of the checkout trying to pack.

There’s a new Lidl near a family member’s house that doesn’t even have the packing shelf even though there would be room for it, instead they have a moveable divider and a Chip & Pin machine on a long pole, meaning that they can start to serve a second customer when the other person is still packing. Our local one which is quite new also has this but it still has the shelf but I’ve never seen either used!
I always pack my shopping away from the checkout as I know this is the done thing and speeds things up no end.
If everybody did this then it would take much less time to go through the checkouts.
 

train_lover

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The food retail sector is overcrowded. We've seen some shrinking in store numbers over the last few years largely thanks to Aldi and Lidl. That being said I couldn't just do my shop at one of those supermarkets. There range isn't there (it's the lack of range that gives them the edge). I personally like to visit a in store bakery and more recently the pizza/ salad bar counters. Something the discounters don't offer.
 

ashkeba

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I always pack my shopping away from the checkout as I know this is the done thing and speeds things up no end.
If everybody did this then it would take much less time to go through the checkouts.
But individually it would take every customer more time because they have to unpack and repack all their shopping twice. The main benefit is to the shop who don't have to pay as many checkout staff - and don't think they will pass that saving on to you instead of their investors!
 

ashkeba

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The food retail sector is overcrowded. We've seen some shrinking in store numbers over the last few years largely thanks to Aldi and Lidl. That being said I couldn't just do my shop at one of those supermarkets. There range isn't there (it's the lack of range that gives them the edge). I personally like to visit a in store bakery and more recently the pizza/ salad bar counters. Something the discounters don't offer.
OK I have read this several times. My nearest Lidl has an in store bakery since the last refurbishment. Is this unusual or new? I think lots of Lidls do in other countries.
 

train_lover

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OK I have read this several times. My nearest Lidl has an in store bakery since the last refurbishment. Is this unusual or new? I think lots of Lidls do in other countries.

I believe this was a Lidl concept. A handful of stores trialled this around the country. They may well be rolling it out now.

Morrisons trialled loose fruit and veg. Unfortunately at the time people didn't like it and voted with their feet. Morrisons were forced to bring back plastic packaging.

This was before plastic was such a taboo subject.
 

Mojo

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Morrisons trialled loose fruit and veg. Unfortunately at the time people didn't like it and voted with their feet. Morrisons were forced to bring back plastic packaging.
Must admit, I'm a bit confused by this. Most shops sell, like they have always done, loose fruit & veg. It's just that this is usually much more expensive than stuff in a package. I don't remember any shop ever ditching its plastic packaging. Even this Waitrose trial in Oxford doesn't go as far as completely removing it from fruit & veg.
I believe this was a Lidl concept. A handful of stores trialled this around the country. They may well be rolling it out now.
Lidl launched its in store bakery in 2011; most of their shops, even the smaller ones, seem to have one. I don't think it could be described as a "roll out" in any way!
 

train_lover

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Must admit, I'm a bit confused by this. Most shops sell, like they have always done, loose fruit & veg. It's just that this is usually much more expensive than stuff in a package. I don't remember any shop ever ditching its plastic packaging. Even this Waitrose trial in Oxford doesn't go as far as completely removing it from fruit & veg.
Lidl launched its in store bakery in 2011; most of their shops, even the smaller ones, seem to have one. I don't think it could be described as a "roll out" in any way!

When I had my own morrisons store we trialled a completely packaged free produce aisle. On paper it was brilliant. In reality the punters hated it. Sales dropped something silly.

As said Lidl trialled it. Then rolled it out. Most supermarkets have ideas they trial in a select few stores.

My store trialled the plastic free produce. Produce ice and mist beds. Clothing ranges. Bulk purchases and a new own brand range. Some trails fail some trails get rolled out.
 

ashkeba

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When I had my own morrisons store we trialled a completely packaged free produce aisle. On paper it was brilliant. In reality the punters hated it. Sales dropped something silly.
Ah, you put it in a freak ghetto, like us poor lactose-intolerant saps have to go visit a freak ghetto to find margarine. I really hate supermarkets doing that. Just put it next to the similar products clearly-labelled so we don't have to visit a special place for it. Oh but then we'd see how much higher our prices are, wouldn't we?
 

Bletchleyite

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But individually it would take every customer more time because they have to unpack and repack all their shopping twice. The main benefit is to the shop who don't have to pay as many checkout staff - and don't think they will pass that saving on to you instead of their investors!

I prefer to pack at my leisure away from the till. This is a big selling point to me.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I've been in Tescos a couple of times recently and been dissappointed by the lack of choice. I think its gone off the boil a bit recently.
This, 100%. I live 5 minutes walk from a Tesco Extra, but there's a small Asda (former Netto) only 5 minutes further away which is about a tenth of the size if not less, but wins on choice and value for everyday items. The big Tesco is perhaps less likely to run out of a given item, but only if they stock it in the first place instead of yet another aisle of their pathetic "Discount Brands" range. They're also woefully understaffed, and don't make up for that with quality.

Broadly back on topic, whilst there are certain items I'll go out of my way to get from Lidl or Aldi (Chilli Bratwurst, and Stroopwaffels that are big enough to sit on the rim of my favourite mug unlike the ones sold in Tesco et al) but if they were the only place I'd miss many things.
The in-store baked items at more modern branches of Aldi are often very nice though. If there's nothing left of the item you want, the staff (if you can find one to ask) will happily stick some more in the oven for you. Their pretzels are to die for when fresh out of the oven!
 
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GusB

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Must admit, I'm a bit confused by this. Most shops sell, like they have always done, loose fruit & veg. It's just that this is usually much more expensive than stuff in a package. I don't remember any shop ever ditching its plastic packaging. Even this Waitrose trial in Oxford doesn't go as far as completely removing it from fruit & veg.

It's not. It's usually cheaper.
I think it was Hugh Fearnley-Whatsits programme last week that tried to highlight that it was often cheaper to buy produce in pre-packaged bags than it was to buy loose. When I took my father shopping in our local Sainsbury's earlier today, I made a point of checking how much loose vs packaged cost and in most cases the loose produce was about 10p cheaper per kilo that the pre-pack stuff. Whether or not this is a direct result of Mr H F-W's campaign, I don't know, but it makes sense. Why should anyone be penalised for only requiring two carrots over a kilo of carrots?

(Reminiscing hat on) When I first started working for a major supermarket, the likes of sweet peppers, swedes (turnips/neeps to us north-of-the-border folks) were priced per pound. Eventually a neep was priced the same per item, regardless of how big it was. A customer who didn't want a whole neep could ask for one to be cut in two, and it would be chopped, shrink-wrapped and given a "half-neep" barcode, but this was never advertised. The situation could have been completely avoided if the items had been priced by weight.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I think it was Hugh Fearnley-Whatsits programme last week that tried to highlight that it was often cheaper to buy produce in pre-packaged bags than it was to buy loose. When I took my father shopping in our local Sainsbury's earlier today, I made a point of checking how much loose vs packaged cost and in most cases the loose produce was about 10p cheaper per kilo that the pre-pack stuff. Whether or not this is a direct result of Mr H F-W's campaign, I don't know, but it makes sense. Why should anyone be penalised for only requiring two carrots over a kilo of carrots?

(Reminiscing hat on) When I first started working for a major supermarket, the likes of sweet peppers, swedes (turnips/neeps to us north-of-the-border folks) were priced per pound. Eventually a neep was priced the same per item, regardless of how big it was. A customer who didn't want a whole neep could ask for one to be cut in two, and it would be chopped, shrink-wrapped and given a "half-neep" barcode, but this was never advertised. The situation could have been completely avoided if the items had been priced by weight.
I worked in a major supermarket during the 2000s, and the vast majority of "produce" items were cheaper loose than packaged. The only exception I recall was baking potatoes which were available in a pack of 4 for £1, whereas if you took 4 loose ones of a comparable size and weighed them the price would be close to £1.50.

So if Mr. Fearnley-Whittingstall ever does claim credit for this, he's a scoundrel and a charlatan! ;)
 

Mojo

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It's not. It's usually cheaper.
Got an example of that? You can use screenshots from online shopping if you want.

As someone else said, the TV programme “War On Plastic,” shows that that is most certainly not the case.

I can give one example because it sticks in my head from my shop last week, that a 1kg bag of carrots in Morrisons is 60p. 1kg loose is 70p.
 

krus_aragon

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Got an example of that? You can use screenshots from online shopping if you want.
Online shopping prices can vary from in-shop prices. My experience is that loose produce (sold by weight) tends to be more expensive online. This is to because it takes the in-store pickers more time to weigh out the quantity you've asked for, so they raise the price to compensate for their staffing costs, and/or encourage online shoppers to choose the quicker pre-packed option instead.

In-store, my personal impression is that the price difference between loose and pre-packed produce has fallen slightly over the past decade or so, but that there are fewer items offered in both forms to compare by.
 

Mojo

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Online shopping prices can vary from in-shop prices. My experience is that loose produce (sold by weight) tends to be more expensive online. This is to because it takes the in-store pickers more time to weigh out the quantity you've asked for, so they raise the price to compensate for their staffing costs, and/or encourage online shoppers to choose the quicker pre-packed option instead.
I'm not so sure about that, but I don't know for definite. I don't shop online but the prices online are usually representative of what you pay instore. I know Morrisons doesn't offer loose products online, so perhaps he might like to take photos of labels in-store. I'd love to find out what these shops are that are as I have been actively looking in the past week, and I have not found a loose selection of fruit & veg that is cheaper than the pre-packaged alternative in the same shop (per kg), and I know that for a fact, the shops I've been in charge more for loose. I'm excluding markets which are usually much cheaper!
My store trialled the plastic free produce. Produce ice and mist beds. Clothing ranges. Bulk purchases and a new own brand range. Some trails fail some trails get rolled out.
If you are talking about the misting machines, it's a bit disingenuous to claim this was a plastic free trial that flopped. These were rolled out at over 300 branches and were placed right by the entrance at the header to the fruit & veg section. This is the area where they, used to before and have done after the machines, put their headline fruit and vegetable offers to entice customers to buy. Instead, they put there a selection of mostly higher-end products, such as bunches of icicle radish, topped bunched carrots, chicory, kale and fancy salads. Many of these products aren't exactly what the ordinary person who goes to their shops would buy, and they took up prime real estate right by the entrance, so it isn't surprising it failed, but this was not really a plastic free trial, it was an attempt to make the shop more high-end. There were also "normal" things here too like unpacked spring onions and asparagus, as well as herbs, which they still sell now, but are refrigerated normally and placed in a more appropriate area of the fruit & veg section.
 

yorksrob

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Lidl launched its in store bakery in 2011; most of their shops, even the smaller ones, seem to have one. I don't think it could be described as a "roll out" in any way!

Well, it's a good pun at any rate.
 

train_lover

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I'm not so sure about that, but I don't know for definite. I don't shop online but the prices online are usually representative of what you pay instore. I know Morrisons doesn't offer loose products online, so perhaps he might like to take photos of labels in-store. I'd love to find out what these shops are that are as I have been actively looking in the past week, and I have not found a loose selection of fruit & veg that is cheaper than the pre-packaged alternative in the same shop (per kg), and I know that for a fact, the shops I've been in charge more for loose. I'm excluding markets which are usually much cheaper!

If you are talking about the misting machines, it's a bit disingenuous to claim this was a plastic free trial that flopped. These were rolled out at over 300 branches and were placed right by the entrance at the header to the fruit & veg section. This is the area where they, used to before and have done after the machines, put their headline fruit and vegetable offers to entice customers to buy. Instead, they put there a selection of mostly higher-end products, such as bunches of icicle radish, topped bunched carrots, chicory, kale and fancy salads. Many of these products aren't exactly what the ordinary person who goes to their shops would buy, and they took up prime real estate right by the entrance, so it isn't surprising it failed, but this was not really a plastic free trial, it was an attempt to make the shop more high-end. There were also "normal" things here too like unpacked spring onions and asparagus, as well as herbs, which they still sell now, but are refrigerated normally and placed in a more appropriate area of the fruit & veg section.

No no, we trialled plastic free produce and the ice machines as separate trials. They worked years apart. The mist machines you see today are what we trialled. In the trial stages the selected fruit and veg sat on a bed of ice with ice cold mist being sprayed over the top. However this was far too labour intensive and quickly got trimmed down to just the mist machines you see today. As previously said we trialled the loose produce and the ice/ mist machines separately.
 

underbank

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When I had my own morrisons store we trialled a completely packaged free produce aisle. On paper it was brilliant. In reality the punters hated it. Sales dropped something silly.

Sounds like Morrisons got their timing wrong and did it too soon. Now there is so much more awareness of plastic that it would probably be far more popular. I don't think it ever pays to be an "early adopter" of anything - just sit back and let others be the guinea pigs and then strike when someone else has suffered the learning curve.

But I also think that it has to be a far more wide ranging roll-out than just an "aisle". Having a "packaged free" aisle just makes it gimmicky, and no doubt, knowing the supermarkets never do anything unless there's profit in it for them, everything on that aisle would have been more expensive. So that's two reasons for Joe Public not to engage. Reduced plastic needs to be engrained within the organisation in all aspects for "the message" to have an impact. No good having an aisle without plastic when on all the other aisles you have the usual plastic inside plastic inside cardboard excessive packaging - it just shouts of hypocracy.

It's a bit like McDonalds scrapping plastic straws yet still using plastic lids. What should have been a good message has made them look incredibly stupid (not helped by the paper straws being useless!).

These days, Joe Public want a "story" they can buy into. Not gimmicks and soundbites. And sadly, a "package free" aisle sounds to me like a gimmick to tick a box rather than a genuine attempt to reduce plastic use.
 

train_lover

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Sounds like Morrisons got their timing wrong and did it too soon. Now there is so much more awareness of plastic that it would probably be far more popular. I don't think it ever pays to be an "early adopter" of anything - just sit back and let others be the guinea pigs and then strike when someone else has suffered the learning curve.

But I also think that it has to be a far more wide ranging roll-out than just an "aisle". Having a "packaged free" aisle just makes it gimmicky, and no doubt, knowing the supermarkets never do anything unless there's profit in it for them, everything on that aisle would have been more expensive. So that's two reasons for Joe Public not to engage. Reduced plastic needs to be engrained within the organisation in all aspects for "the message" to have an impact. No good having an aisle without plastic when on all the other aisles you have the usual plastic inside plastic inside cardboard excessive packaging - it just shouts of hypocracy.

It's a bit like McDonalds scrapping plastic straws yet still using plastic lids. What should have been a good message has made them look incredibly stupid (not helped by the paper straws being useless!).

These days, Joe Public want a "story" they can buy into. Not gimmicks and soundbites. And sadly, a "package free" aisle sounds to me like a gimmick to tick a box rather than a genuine attempt to reduce plastic use.

You are spot on in what you say. My store trialled the plastic free produce in 2009/10. People hated it and we were forced to bring back plastic. Back then there was very little awareness around the environmental factors of plastic. Should they trial it out again ( I'd be very surprised if they aren't already) it'll go down much better.
 

Mojo

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You are spot on in what you say. My store trialled the plastic free produce in 2009/10. People hated it and we were forced to bring back plastic. Back then there was very little awareness around the environmental factors of plastic. Should they trial it out again ( I'd be very surprised if they aren't already) it'll go down much better.
The Morrisons press office implied they did a trial starting last year and following a success it is already in the process of being introduced.

Morrisons is to become the first British supermarket to roll-out plastic free fruit and veg areas in many of its stores. Customers will be able to choose from up to 127 varieties of fruit and veg - and buy them loose or put them in recyclable paper bags.

The move follows a ten-month trial in three Morrisons stores in Skipton, Guiseley and St Ives where the amount of loose fruit and veg bought by customers increased by an average of 40%. The new 'buy bagless' fruit and veg shelves are expected to result in a similar switch from bagged to loose - saving an estimated three tonnes of plastic a week, equating to 156 tonnes a year.

https://www.morrisons-corporate.com...-and-veg-areas-to-help-customers-buy-bagless/

Of course, this is in the Fruit & Veg dep't, where it is relatively easy for them to make changes and where much of the plastic was probably recyclable anyway. The real change has to come from the rest of the shop, where the plastic use isn't very recyclable.

I think people find those "zero waste" shops very fashionable, the issue is the price!
 

train_lover

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The Morrisons press office implied they did a trial starting last year and following a success it is already in the process of being introduced.



https://www.morrisons-corporate.com...-and-veg-areas-to-help-customers-buy-bagless/

Of course, this is in the Fruit & Veg dep't, where it is relatively easy for them to make changes and where much of the plastic was probably recyclable anyway. The real change has to come from the rest of the shop, where the plastic use isn't very recyclable.

I think people find those "zero waste" shops very fashionable, the issue is the price!

I thought as much. My trail was in 09/10 and much has changed since then. I left Morrisons in 2013 to join the railway so I cannot say what's been going on since then.

You aren't wrong. Fruit and veg is easy as nature does the hard part. If you can cast your mind back to when Iceland first started they specialised in selling loose frozen products...would this work today I wonder?
 

underbank

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Of course, this is in the Fruit & Veg dep't, where it is relatively easy for them to make changes and where much of the plastic was probably recyclable anyway.

I think we need to stop using too much "stuff" whether recyclable or not. Recycling takes an enormous amount of resources and lots of people don't bother anyway, not helped by the cack-handed way in which local councils have mis-managed recycling. Far better to reduce all packaging as far as possible first, and then concentrate on ensuring whatever is really needed is easily recyclable.
 

Mojo

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I think we need to stop using too much "stuff" whether recyclable or not. Recycling takes an enormous amount of resources and lots of people don't bother anyway, not helped by the cack-handed way in which local councils have mis-managed recycling. Far better to reduce all packaging as far as possible first, and then concentrate on ensuring whatever is really needed is easily recyclable.
Oh yes I absolutely agree. The first step is obviously reduce, then reuse, recycling should come last.

The issue is, however, some items that Supermarkets will argue will need to be packaged, until legislation forces them to change, or enough research is done on how to adequately protect said items given modern logistics. At least for those items the least they could do is start using recyclable material.
 
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