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If all of the supermarket chains in the UK except for Aldi and Lidl disappeared, would you care?

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Darandio

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Got an example of that? You can use screenshots from online shopping if you want.

As someone else said, the TV programme “War On Plastic,” shows that that is most certainly not the case.

I can give one example because it sticks in my head from my shop last week, that a 1kg bag of carrots in Morrisons is 60p. 1kg loose is 70p.

I suppose it depends where you look. I use Tesco now ever since our local Morrisons went downhill and I always buy loose, it allows me to choose what I want in terms of quantity and quality. Onions are a great example, the medium to large ones sold in a net are often marked up astronomically so i'll always buy loose in this case. There may be larger plastic bags (1kg or 1.5kg) which may be slightly cheaper per kilo, but I often find these are very small onions, not what i'm after.

TescoVeg.jpg
 
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Mojo

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I suppose it depends where you look. I use Tesco now ever since our local Morrisons went downhill and I always buy loose, it allows me to choose what I want in terms of quantity and quality. Onions are a great example, the medium to large ones sold in a net are often marked up astronomically so i'll always buy loose in this case. There may be larger plastic bags (1kg or 1.5kg) which may be slightly cheaper per kilo, but I often find these are very small onions, not what i'm after.

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To compare, these are the screenshots I took earlier, showing how Carrots, Onions & Oranges are much cheaper in packaging.
 

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Darandio

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The onions demonstrate perfectly what I was talking about. Very little price difference and also far too small, at least for what I want to use them for.
 

Bletchleyite

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The issue is, however, some items that Supermarkets will argue will need to be packaged, until legislation forces them to change, or enough research is done on how to adequately protect said items given modern logistics. At least for those items the least they could do is start using recyclable material.

Or compostable material. It does now seem to be possible to make compostable "plastic" - the Co-op have started selling single-use bags of this kind.
 

Mojo

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Or compostable material. It does now seem to be possible to make compostable "plastic" - the Co-op have started selling single-use bags of this kind.
Very useful if your council doesn’t provide free food waste bags, as they are significantly cheaper than the ones that you can buy! Admittedly a lazy option because you could line your bin with newspaper instead.
 

Bletchleyite

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Very useful if your council doesn’t provide free food waste bags, as they are significantly cheaper than the ones that you can buy! Admittedly a lazy option because you could line your bin with newspaper instead.

Or just not line it at all. My caddy fits in the dishwasher, so I just put it through there each time I empty it into the outside compost bin (typically once or twice a week). This means no smells at all, because it's always 100% clean. I actually started doing this because I was using compostable liners but the bin men round here are too thick to realise that they are compostable so the food waste bin is the correct place for them, and were refusing to empty it thinking they were contaminants.

I think one big use case for this type of bag is takeaway food at stations - a lot of M&S multi-use carrier bags end up in the bin because there is a need for somewhere to put wrappers which are often covered in the likes of mayonnaise. I really think M&S Food at stations need to start providing this kind of bag, or as an alternative single-use paper bags, for that kind of purpose. I wouldn't remove the charge (as it makes people think if they need one or not) but if you do need one it is almost certainly not going to be to use it again next time in this context.
 

ComUtoR

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-48095482
Five plastic bag materials found in UK shops were tested to see what happens to them in environments where they can appear if littered.

They all disintegrated into fragments after exposure to air for nine months.

But after more than three years in soil or sea, three of the materials, including biodegradable bags, were still intact.

Compostable bags were found to be a little friendlier to the environment - at least in the sea.

After three months in a marine setting they had disappeared, but could still be found in soil 27 months later.

There is still a long way to go with 'plastic' bags.
 

route101

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This seems to be a London thing generally, most probably because you'll never get quality people in those kinds of jobs if you pay them poverty wages. (The London living wage is all very well, but even that is still a poverty wage in London).

Ive noticed in London , central London at least , its more foreigners who work in the supermarkets
 

Tom B

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A new Aldi opened near me around Christmas in a former poundland. I'm in two minds - yes, some things are cheaper, but mostly the prices seem similar to Tescos etc. What they do have though, for an inner London shop, is a decent range of products rather than the limited and expensive ones sold in the "Tesco Express" etc outlets.

I tend to go to a large Tescos or Morrison's once per fortnight for things that'll keep, and top up for things such as meat etc as and when locally from either the aforementioned Aldi/Tesco Express or local greengrocers (8am-3am). I've found that if I try to think ahead too much and buy what I think I'll use for a week or so, things end up wasted - a combination, I think, of living alone, shift work, sometimes unpredictable plans!
Then to Costco a few times per year for bulk items. (Costco can give you excellent pricing on many things, as long as you're careful and would be buying them anyway! I suppose those with large families etc stand to save more).
 

Mutant Lemming

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Must admit, I'm a bit confused by this. Most shops sell, like they have always done, loose fruit & veg. It's just that this is usually much more expensive than stuff in a package. I don't remember any shop ever ditching its plastic packaging. Even this Waitrose trial in Oxford doesn't go as far as completely removing it from fruit & veg.
Lidl launched its in store bakery in 2011; most of their shops, even the smaller ones, seem to have one. I don't think it could be described as a "roll out" in any way!
I believe the comment may have been referring to Morrisons practice of not providing anything for you to put your loose veg in - i.e. no plastic or paper bags on the sections.
It kind of reminds me, though it was many decades ago, as a pimply youth working for a now defunct (or should say a taken over) supermarket chain where it was customary to use the out of code packaged veg to stock up the loose sections. Similarly the 'halves' of cucumbers, melons and the like were often the 'good' half of a mouldy or damaged one.
 

GusB

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I'm not so sure about that, but I don't know for definite. I don't shop online but the prices online are usually representative of what you pay instore. I know Morrisons doesn't offer loose products online, so perhaps he might like to take photos of labels in-store. I'd love to find out what these shops are that are as I have been actively looking in the past week, and I have not found a loose selection of fruit & veg that is cheaper than the pre-packaged alternative in the same shop (per kg), and I know that for a fact, the shops I've been in charge more for loose. I'm excluding markets which are usually much cheaper!
I'm not sure what prices are like instore as we usually shop online with Asda, but their website is currently showing:

Grower's Selection carrots PP 1kg, 60p (60p/kg)
Grower's Selection carrots LS 65p/kg
Organic carrots 500g 65p (£1.30/kg)

So they're 5p/kg more expensive loose.

But I also think that it has to be a far more wide ranging roll-out than just an "aisle". Having a "packaged free" aisle just makes it gimmicky, and no doubt, knowing the supermarkets never do anything unless there's profit in it for them, everything on that aisle would have been more expensive. So that's two reasons for Joe Public not to engage. Reduced plastic needs to be engrained within the organisation in all aspects for "the message" to have an impact. No good having an aisle without plastic when on all the other aisles you have the usual plastic inside plastic inside cardboard excessive packaging - it just shouts of hypocracy.
The "benefit" of having "package free" is that those products are separated from the main sections of the store where such items would normally be located, making it more difficult to compare prices. The same happens with gluten-free products - if they were side-by-side with their non-GF equivalents it becomes very apparent how much extra is being charged.
 

Bletchleyite

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Grower's Selection carrots PP 1kg, 60p (60p/kg)
Grower's Selection carrots LS 65p/kg
Organic carrots 500g 65p (£1.30/kg)

So they're 5p/kg more expensive loose.

The question is if that's the same for in-store purchase. For online, it takes more staff time to do loose. For in store, it takes more staff time to do packaged plus the cost of the package.

The "benefit" of having "package free" is that those products are separated from the main sections of the store where such items would normally be located, making it more difficult to compare prices. The same happens with gluten-free products - if they were side-by-side with their non-GF equivalents it becomes very apparent how much extra is being charged.

I prefer them all together as shopping is less effort :) These are going to cost extra anyway because they are produced in far smaller volumes and require dedicated facilities for their production, so I don't think the higher price is really resented.
 

scotrail158713

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I really like my local Aldi. They need to take down their sign in the car park though - it says “Your fresh new Aldi store is now open!”. (It opened in October 2015)
 

Butts

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Thirty years ago there were probably half the number of Supermarkets that exist today.

Everyone still managed to do their shopping so why is there such a proliferation of different stores now available ?

Perhaps there is to much choice !!
 

yorksrob

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If you're in the middle of London for example, there seems to be very little choice. You get a large number of small 'metro/local' type shops, all selling the same very limited range of products.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Thirty years ago there were probably half the number of Supermarkets that exist today.

Everyone still managed to do their shopping so why is there such a proliferation of different stores now available ?

I suspect the answer is that 30 years ago, there were many more small independent grocers, greengrocers, butchers and corner shops etc. Most of those have been driven out of business by the supermarkets. Population increase in some parts of the country will play a role too.
 

Clip

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Didnt read thread from the start but I voted yes simply for the amount of people who would be out of a job.

And Aldi/Lidl are not always the cheapest ;)
 

Butts

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I suspect the answer is that 30 years ago, there were many more small independent grocers, greengrocers, butchers and corner shops etc. Most of those have been driven out of business by the supermarkets. Population increase in some parts of the country will play a role too.

When I first lived near Dudley in 1988 there was a Tesco in the Town Centre where we used to do a weekly shop. Bear in mind it was only open late on a Thursday Night until about 8pm, the rest of the days it closed about 6pm.

Others included a Safeway in Halesowen, another in Sedgley and a Sainsbury and Asda at the the newly emerging Merry Hill Centre. These were all miles apart with similar opening hours. There was also a small Sainsburys in Dudley Town Centre.

Today the picture is completely different with a plethora superstores in the surrounding area complemented by numerous Lidl and Aldi Stores. There must be ten times as many supermarkets as existed thirty years ago. With regard to the smaller shops a lot of these have been supplanted by Tesco Metro and their cohorts.

The population has not increased markedly so something else has changed. More stores with longer opening hours must have diluted each outlets take, or do people just spend a lot more now than thirty years ago ?
 

GusB

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Thirty years ago there were probably half the number of Supermarkets that exist today.

Everyone still managed to do their shopping so why is there such a proliferation of different stores now available ?

Perhaps there is to much choice !!
Casting my mind back to my childhood, we had the following supermarkets in town, all located on the High Street, or not far from it:
- Wm Low
- Templetons/Presto
- FineFare
- Co-op
None were "superstores", and FineFare was the largest store with the most central location. Fast forward to today and we have
- Farmfoods (former Wm Low site)
- Tesco (Wm Low relocated to a new build site just off the High St, then Tesco closed it and built a new Extra store)
- Asda (FineFare moved to an out-of-town location, became Gateway and ultimately Asda which then built a larger store on the site opposite)
- Marks & Spencer Food
- Aldi
- Lidi

Co-op closed when Norco (a local co-operative) built a new store at the end of the High Street. When Norco went bust, that store was purchased by Argyll Foods who closed Presto, moved the staff over and rebranded as Safeway. It was very briefly a Morrison's, but the shop wasn't really big enough for them and they sold it to Somerfield. Had Somerfield not pulled out and sold the building to the council, it probably would have come full circle and become a Co-op again.

Overall, not a huge increase, and out of those six, only two are located any distance away from the High Street (Asda and Lidl being next to the railway station on either side of the line). There has probably been enough of a population increase locally to sustain a couple of extra stores, but I think we've reached the point where the local market can't support any more.

Fortunately we still have few local butchers and fishmongers, but we've lost a few independent stores (eg the hardware store) over the years, and probably because the likes of Tesco, Asda expanded their non-food range when they built their new, larger stores.
 

Mojo

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The population has not increased markedly so something else has changed. More stores with longer opening hours must have diluted each outlets take, or do people just spend a lot more now than thirty years ago ?
I would probably say it goes some way to explain why the UK has the third lowest food bills as a proportion of household income out of all developed countries in the world, and also why our food bills are, on average, 8% cheaper than nearby countries in western Europe.
 

175mph

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I would probably say it goes some way to explain why the UK has the third lowest food bills as a proportion of household income out of all developed countries in the world, and also why our food bills are, on average, 8% cheaper than nearby countries in western Europe.
That's a pleasant surprise when I've read so many times how we always seem to have the worst of something or the least of something good in Europe/rest of the developed world. :smile:
 

Busaholic

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Casting my mind back to my childhood, we had the following supermarkets in town, all located on the High Street, or not far from it:
- Wm Low
- Templetons/Presto
- FineFare
- Co-op
None were "superstores", and FineFare was the largest store with the most central location. Fast forward to today and we have
- Farmfoods (former Wm Low site)
- Tesco (Wm Low relocated to a new build site just off the High St, then Tesco closed it and built a new Extra store)
- Asda (FineFare moved to an out-of-town location, became Gateway and ultimately Asda which then built a larger store on the site opposite)
- Marks & Spencer Food
- Aldi
- Lidi

Co-op closed when Norco (a local co-operative) built a new store at the end of the High Street. When Norco went bust, that store was purchased by Argyll Foods who closed Presto, moved the staff over and rebranded as Safeway. It was very briefly a Morrison's, but the shop wasn't really big enough for them and they sold it to Somerfield. Had Somerfield not pulled out and sold the building to the council, it probably would have come full circle and become a Co-op again.

Overall, not a huge increase, and out of those six, only two are located any distance away from the High Street (Asda and Lidl being next to the railway station on either side of the line). There has probably been enough of a population increase locally to sustain a couple of extra stores, but I think we've reached the point where the local market can't support any more.

Fortunately we still have few local butchers and fishmongers, but we've lost a few independent stores (eg the hardware store) over the years, and probably because the likes of Tesco, Asda expanded their non-food range when they built their new, larger stores.
When I moved to Penzance in 1988 we had a small town centre Tesco and small Co-Op, though it wasn't branded as such. The nearest medium size supermarket was Safeway's, located at Pool. midway between Redruth and Camborne, a 45 minute round trip. In 1989 a medium size Safeways opened just outside Penzance on land sold by British Rail as surplus to requirements. It was an immediate success, such that a year or two later it became common knowledge that it was Safeway's second best performing in the whole of the U.K. based on square footage. At the same time trade in Penzance town centre on a Saturday deteriorated markedly, and not just for food shops, as the lure of free parking drew people out there to shop. A few years later Tesco secured a greenfield site slightly nearer to Penzance, again on the east side, to develop another medium size supermarket: in order to retain their town centre staff, who were not going to transfer to the new store, they were assured verbally that the store would remain open. A week after the new store opened, all town centre staff were given four weeks notice, at which time the store would close. There are still some locally who won't shop at Tesco in consequence. Then, a few years ago, the operators of the Isles of Scilly helicopter link announced they wished to sell the airfield site to Sainsbury's, with the millions of profit thereby achieved 'helping to secure the helicopter business for the future', with no indication of how this would be achieved without somewhere to fly from! I'll skate over what happened next, as I became quite 'outspoken' on local media as to the only possible outcome of all this, and, lo and behold, Cornwall Council gave planning permission, the store was built and the helicopter co. b*ggered off, never to return. Oh, by the way, the Sainsbury's is located midway between Tesco and what has become an unloved Morrison's (unloved by its operator as much as most of the public, who've deserted in droves). So, with no great increase in population and a depressed and depressing town centre, a lot of trade has moved out of town.
 

cactustwirly

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I would probably say it goes some way to explain why the UK has the third lowest food bills as a proportion of household income out of all developed countries in the world, and also why our food bills are, on average, 8% cheaper than nearby countries in western Europe.

It really depends on what you are buying, some things like beer etc are very cheap in Europe but expensive in the UK.
But on the whole it's more expensive in Western/Southern Europe.
Although Austria and Germany are a bit cheaper than France or Italy
 

yorksrob

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When I moved to Penzance in 1988 we had a small town centre Tesco and small Co-Op, though it wasn't branded as such. The nearest medium size supermarket was Safeway's, located at Pool. midway between Redruth and Camborne, a 45 minute round trip. In 1989 a medium size Safeways opened just outside Penzance on land sold by British Rail as surplus to requirements. It was an immediate success, such that a year or two later it became common knowledge that it was Safeway's second best performing in the whole of the U.K. based on square footage. At the same time trade in Penzance town centre on a Saturday deteriorated markedly, and not just for food shops, as the lure of free parking drew people out there to shop. A few years later Tesco secured a greenfield site slightly nearer to Penzance, again on the east side, to develop another medium size supermarket: in order to retain their town centre staff, who were not going to transfer to the new store, they were assured verbally that the store would remain open. A week after the new store opened, all town centre staff were given four weeks notice, at which time the store would close. There are still some locally who won't shop at Tesco in consequence. Then, a few years ago, the operators of the Isles of Scilly helicopter link announced they wished to sell the airfield site to Sainsbury's, with the millions of profit thereby achieved 'helping to secure the helicopter business for the future', with no indication of how this would be achieved without somewhere to fly from! I'll skate over what happened next, as I became quite 'outspoken' on local media as to the only possible outcome of all this, and, lo and behold, Cornwall Council gave planning permission, the store was built and the helicopter co. b*ggered off, never to return. Oh, by the way, the Sainsbury's is located midway between Tesco and what has become an unloved Morrison's (unloved by its operator as much as most of the public, who've deserted in droves). So, with no great increase in population and a depressed and depressing town centre, a lot of trade has moved out of town.

I still rather like the town centre, although I'm told by my family that some clothes shops have closed, since we started holidaying there ten years ago.
 

175mph

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It really depends on what you are buying, some things like beer etc are very cheap in Europe but expensive in the UK.
But on the whole it's more expensive in Western/Southern Europe.
Although Austria and Germany are a bit cheaper than France or Italy
I don't drink any beer, so the prices don't worry me.
 

mmh

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It's all fine and well for those of you that love them but if you can afford it you go first class and don't go for second rate now don't you ?

No. For a travel analogy, I won't pay for first class if I don't consider that the benefit of it is worth the extra money. Often there's no benefit.

For example, I often use Southern, Thameslink and London Northwestern. I wouldn't dream of buying a first class ticket. The difference for an LNR advance first is often only a few pounds more than standard, but is completely not worth bothering with.

I don't fly much these days, but I'd never consider a "premium" class on a short haul flight. I go from Gatwick to Jersey 2 or 3 times a year, and the only consideration is which of BA or Easyjet are cheaper at the time. BA business class? Completely pointless waste of money. I can survive half an hour without a "free" cup of tea and "meal."
 

train_lover

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Supermarkets are all simply fighting for market share. Store have been opening at record rates but the bubble will burst. Theres only so much money go around. My better half insists on shopping at different stores to ensure we are getting the best prices. However I strongly disagree with this policy. By the time I've driven between 3 stores I've spent the saving made on the shopping on fuel.
 
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