If St Andrews Get a Station ?

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MidnightFlyer

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I'm sorry, I don't fully understand. Are you assuming St Andrews will be built on the existing NR line?
 

MidnightFlyer

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I would predict that reopening a central St Andrews station would see Leuchars' usage plummet. It all depends on what level of service the new loop would get however.
 

ainsworth74

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What I am considering is a loop that just after Leuchars would go to St Andrews and then come back, I have seen this proposed before.

I assume this would add time to the journey in which case I doubt EC would be that interested and would just argue that people that want to use the direct service south of Edinburgh will just drive/take the bus/use local railway services to Leuchars and therefore it's not worth inconveniencing the rest of the passengers with a longer journey time.

Just a thought, I could be wrong on the view that EC would take.
 

D841 Roebuck

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Would be nice for GOLFEXES.

Another reopening for golfers could be Dornoch - great course...
 

Ivo

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Wouldn't it make more sense to have a branch line to St Andrews that is covered by local services to Edinburgh? EC or whoever in the future could always run terminating services during the Open when it visits St Andrews, but otherwise I just don't think there's enough of a case.
 

scotsman

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STARLink are the pressure group in St Andrews campaigning for a station and they've proven before that they don't have the faintest clue about railways. It was a shame that it was an interview with their press officer on Radio Scotland that exposed this, but anyway.

Their website refers to a St Andrews - Leuchard rail link, yet on the radio they were asked whether the line would pass through or terminate in the town. They said that it was up to Network Rail
 

tbtc

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STARLink are the pressure group in St Andrews campaigning for a station and they've proven before that they don't have the faintest clue about railways

True.

I lived in the town for half my life, and was never convinced of a rail link working.

For a start, where is the land in St Andrews for a nine coach train to sit? (esp given property prices anywhere near the centre)

And any regular service would require a double track line into/out of St A, because otherwise you may struggle to get a train from Leuchars to St A and back (allowing time for changing ends etc) in a short space of time.

Can you imagine the struggle at golf time? The golf people would still need shuttle buses to get them down to the course.

There are around six or seven buses an hour from St Andrews to Leuchars (which serve residential St A too on some journeys), so connections are pretty decent as they are.

Diverting the East Coast services into St A would mean a fifteen/twenty minute time penalty (esp with reversing at Leuchars) which would be uncompetative for Dundee/ Aberdeen passengers. The only solution would be to divert the Edinburgh - Dundee "semi-fast" into St A (though that would mean a big time penalty for journeys like Dundee - Kirkcaldy)...

...or, dare I say it, a Pacer shuttling along the branch? :lol:
 

MCR247

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For a start, where is the land in St Andrews for a nine coach train to sit? (esp given property prices anywhere near the centre)

Just to ruin the argument of having a station even more, EC HSTs are actually 11 coaches (2+9)! :lol:
 

Butts

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Having to regularly visit my daughter at the University it would be handy.

However there is a frequent bus service or taxis if you are in a party at Leuchars Station.
 

Murphyen

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True.
For a start, where is the land in St Andrews for a nine coach train to sit? (esp given property prices anywhere near the centre)
They should put it back in the Argyle Street carpark – a line out on either side. One goes straight up the Cannongate (unlucky residents), and the other around the Old Course Hotel. Bish bosh bash rail link done.
 
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Wouldn't it make more sense to have a branch line to St Andrews that is covered by local services to Edinburgh? EC or whoever in the future could always run terminating services during the Open when it visits St Andrews, but otherwise I just don't think there's enough of a case.

.....like it was in 1958 when the family lived in Leuchars. In those days the station was called Leuchars Junction. We used to catch the train to St. Andrews for days out in the summer. Little choo-choo puff and three or four coaches. I don't recall the train going any further than Leuchars on the return, as far as I can remember (I was only 8 and I'm 62 now) the train was just a branch shuttle with one station in between at Guardbridge.
 

W-on-Sea

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A branch line would surely be the only realistic option, with a few, mostly not insurmountable problems where the former trackbed is no longer usable. A bigger problem would be where to put the station: I'm not convinced the Argyle St car park is long enough, the original station is now a pub (and a very nice one at that-at least it was when I was last there some years ago), and the bus station is on the site of the 2nd station. Not convinced it's essential, myself, anyway..
 

tbtc

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They should put it back in the Argyle Street carpark – a line out on either side. One goes straight up the Cannongate (unlucky residents), and the other around the Old Course Hotel. Bish bosh bash rail link done.

I'm not convinced the Argyle St car park is long enough

I don't think you could fit an HST at Argyle Street (and I'd hate to think how much busier the centre of the place would be without those car parking spaces soaking up some demand).

To the south the line passed through a lot of land that houses are now built on, I can't see any path that would suit a line apart from the route between the Old Course and Guardbridge etc.
 

PFX

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The notion of anything other than a branchline being reinstated is nonsensical. Surely there would be no more likelihood of the ECML via St Andrews than of me setting foot on the moon?

If the branchline were to happen, it could theoretically be run in a similar way to the branch from Coleraine to Portrush on the NIR network. That has a shuttle between the 2 stations 2 stops in-between and connecting to onward services to Belfast and Derry.
 

cuccir

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I don't know the area, but would a line operated in a pseudo-light rail style, as per Stourbridge, work? The advantage of a high-frequency but relatively low-capacity self contained line would be that it might be easier to manage during the occasional high demand event, but not be an over-provision most of the time?

Edit - ah, I see PFX got there before me!
 

Bevan Price

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.....like it was in 1958 when the family lived in Leuchars. In those days the station was called Leuchars Junction. We used to catch the train to St. Andrews for days out in the summer. Little choo-choo puff and three or four coaches. I don't recall the train going any further than Leuchars on the return, as far as I can remember (I was only 8 and I'm 62 now) the train was just a branch shuttle with one station in between at Guardbridge.

St Andrews lay on a loop line from Thornton Junction, via Leven, Anstruther, Crail & St. Andrews to Leuchars Junction. In the 1961 timetable, the line was mostly operated in two sections, Edinburgh, Glasgow or Thornton to Crail, and St. Andrews to Leuchars Junction, with a few trains continuing to Dundee (or beyond). Only about 5 trains each way per day covered the 11 miles between Crail & St. Andrews. There was also a summer saturday service to Glasgow (Central, Low Level) which reversed at Leuchars Junction .
 

PaxVobiscum

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Brief mention on BBC Scotland News tonight and this article on the website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-18038394

Optimism at St Andrews rail link feasibility study
Campaigners calling for the restoration of a direct rail link to St Andrews have welcomed a new report suggesting the line could be reinstated for £76m.

Lobby group Starlink have said that an hourly service, introduced between the Fife town and Edinburgh, would pay for itself.

They maintain that a rail link would help boost the town's tourism numbers and reduce traffic on the A91.

The line to St Andrews was closed in 1969.

Campaigners believe that it would be feasible to introduce an hourly service to Edinburgh, reaching Cupar in 10 minutes, Dunfermline in 49 minutes and the Edinburgh Airport interchange in 69 minutes.

A half-hourly service to Dundee, arriving at Leuchars in six minutes, Dundee in 20, and including a stop at Wormit, would also prove popular, the feasibility study suggested.

A Transport Scotland spokesman said further studies would have to be carried out before the project could move forward.

He added: "The proposals must be discussed with the local regional transport partnership, SEStran, and a STAG appraisal considering all transport options, not just rail, must be carried out."
 

tbtc

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Brief mention on BBC Scotland News tonight

It sounds like an extension of the current Edinburgh - Cowdenbeath all-stops service to St Andrews, plus a half hourly St A - Dundee service?

I'm not sure how they plan to get from St A to Cupar in only ten minutes when they'd presumably need to go via Leuchars (and reverse there)?

And "Edinburgh Airport interchange"? Is that a posh rebranding for Inverkeithing (where the Stagecoach bus to the Airport leaves)?

Yet more QANGO feasibility studies, yet more expense, no doubt...
 

WatcherZero

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Not knowing the local geography why does the report say it would take 5 minutes longer St Andrews to Edinburgh than the reverse journey?
 

scotsman

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It sounds like an extension of the current Edinburgh - Cowdenbeath all-stops service to St Andrews, plus a half hourly St A - Dundee service?

I'm not sure how they plan to get from St A to Cupar in only ten minutes when they'd presumably need to go via Leuchars (and reverse there)?

And "Edinburgh Airport interchange"? Is that a posh rebranding for Inverkeithing (where the Stagecoach bus to the Airport leaves)?

Yet more QANGO feasibility studies, yet more expense, no doubt...

You wouldn't want to extend the Cowdenbeath trains to St Andrews - for a start, all they do is run to the siding, change ends and head back at the moment anyway. Secondly, running via Cowdenbeath is the slow way. Surely it would make more sense to divert some of the current Dundee trains there, or, even better, run a shuttle.
 

tbtc

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You wouldn't want to extend the Cowdenbeath trains to St Andrews - for a start, all they do is run to the siding, change ends and head back at the moment anyway. Secondly, running via Cowdenbeath is the slow way. Surely it would make more sense to divert some of the current Dundee trains there, or, even better, run a shuttle.

I only mentioned the Cowdenbeath terminators as my reading of the article suggested that these were the ones that the STARLINK people were wanting to run to St A (hence mentioning a time to Dunfermline in the press release).

It would be a slow way of getting from St Andrews to Edinburgh, but maybe (if I've read their plans correctly?) they were thinking that doing it this way would avoid the need to run additional services over the Forth Bridge - since there is effectively no spare capacity south of Inverkeithing)?

Since they talked about doubling the number of services at Cupar I presumed that this was in addition to the current Edinburgh - Dundee "semi fast". Maybe I'm reading things wrong though, dunno.

A Leuchars shuttle sounds by far the best option (unless they are going to provide space for a nine coach HST to sit at St Andrews on a double track line)
 

robertclark125

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I only mentioned the Cowdenbeath terminators as my reading of the article suggested that these were the ones that the STARLINK people were wanting to run to St A (hence mentioning a time to Dunfermline in the press release).

It would be a slow way of getting from St Andrews to Edinburgh, but maybe (if I've read their plans correctly?) they were thinking that doing it this way would avoid the need to run additional services over the Forth Bridge - since there is effectively no spare capacity south of Inverkeithing)?

Since they talked about doubling the number of services at Cupar I presumed that this was in addition to the current Edinburgh - Dundee "semi fast". Maybe I'm reading things wrong though, dunno.

A Leuchars shuttle sounds by far the best option (unless they are going to provide space for a nine coach HST to sit at St Andrews on a double track line)

The plans to reopen the railway link to Leven (track still in situ) would possibly use the Cowdenbeath terminators,, giving Lochgelly and Cardenden (my local station) an improved service to Edinburgh.

But, there is a way such a service to st andrews can be run. The hourly Edinburgh to Dundee trains, could split at Leuchars, front train to Dundee, rear to St. Andrews. Trains meet up again at leuchars.

Also worth noting that the Stagecoach in Fife travel office in the bus station (located next to the old station site) sells National Rail tickets.
 

Waverley125

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There's certainly space at Argyle St to rebuild the old station platforms, their being long enough for HSTs is beside the point in my eyes, the station wouldn't serve the ECML.

The need for a station building can be obviated by building next to the existing abutment for the footbridge, which would be directly opposite St Andrews Bus station. Or you could just slightly extend the bus station, and ask people to walk the few yards over to the rail platforms, it's not a problem in my view.

As has been said, the original St andrews station was on the Neuk line, which you'd be reopening under this-so heading south via St Andrews South Parkway (Morrisons/Community Hospital), Crail, Anstruther, St Monans, Pittenweem, Elie, Largo, Leven and Cameron Bridge to Waukmill Junction, and from there either to Glasgow via Dunfermline or Edinburgh via Kirkcaldy.

Heading north the line would pass immediately to the rear of the old course hotel (station here), then on to Guardbridge, Leuchars, hopefully a re-opened Wormit station, and Dundee.

The line could run with an hourly Dundee-Edinburgh service, marked as Cameron bridge until it diverged at Leuchars. Calling pattern would be: Wormit, Leuchars, Guardbridge, Old Course St Andrews, St Andrews, St Andrews South Parkway, Crail, Anstruther, St Monans, Pittenweem, Elie, Largo, Leven, Cameron Bridge, Kirkcaldy, Inverkeithing, Haymarket, Edinburgh.
 
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