If there was a second wave, what would you do if you were in power?

[Bletchleyite]

I like the term “Boris mask”, it sort of conveys a certain contempt.

Your wish is my command!

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewellery, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

(I'm not paying, though)

 

[yorkie]

I’ve already heard “Boris vaccine” being spoken about, in negative terms I might add.

If that relates to the Oxford vaccine, that's deeply unhelpful, and utterly absurd.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Lockdown extends the lives of some - mostly elderly - people, yes. It's also enjoyed by middle class people with gardens, jobs that can be done at home, and space for homeworking.

But this is at the huge expense of mental health, particularly among young people, the livelihoods of many people especially those who work in lower income jobs, and the future aspirations and development of young people.

The idea that the choice is between "lives" (actually of predominantly older people) versus merely "money" (actually livelihoods and mental health of younger or poorer people) is utterly absurd and demonstrates a lack of the wider issues at stake.

Btw - that is one problem about lockdown as you rightly stated. The fact that sadly some teenagers attempted or have managed to commit suicide. That's why I believe lockdown should become a lest resort thing, but in the case we are back in when we where during March and April period, then unfortunately it's the only way to delay the spread and save the lives of many.

 

[bramling]

If that relates to the Oxford vaccine, that's deeply unhelpful, and utterly absurd.

I agree it’s unhelpful, but given how confidence in Johnson is now at absolute rock bottom, can we really honestly blame people for being sceptical and mistrusting anything he does?

The guy couldn’t even look after his own health after all, same in less spectacular circumstances for the health secretary, so why would I take notice of them? Yes I know this is Oxford University not Boris, but ultimately it’s going to be the government organising any vaccination strategy, and people need to have confidence in that government. It’s kind of a bit more serious than a flagship bus.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I agree it’s unhelpful, but given how confidence in Johnson is now at absolute rock bottom, can we really honestly blame people for being sceptical and mistrusting anything he does?

Bozza ain't making the vaccine though (although some people obviously think otherwise!)...

 

[talldave]

Bozza ain't making the vaccine though (although some people obviously think otherwise!)...

He didn't make the bikes either!

 

[bramling]

Bozza ain't making the vaccine though (although some people obviously think otherwise!)...

I’m not disagreeing, however he (or perhaps others in government) will be advising people to take it.

Lack of confidence in Johnson could turn out to be a real problem. They could always wheel out someone else of course, I’m sure Priti Patel could come out and threaten us all with indefinite detention for not taking a vaccine shot!

 

[Jonny]

I’m not disagreeing, however he (or perhaps others in government) will be advising people to take it.

Lack of confidence in Johnson could turn out to be a real problem. They could always wheel out someone else of course, I’m sure Priti Patel could come out and threaten us all with indefinite detention for not taking a vaccine shot!

Which cannot be enforced using the current lockdown/closure/face covering powers (they would likely need an act of Parliament in fact), as discussed on other threads. It is much easier to say that it's down to people not having the vaccine; encouragement to shield should still be given high priority though.

 

[talldave]

I’m not disagreeing, however he (or perhaps others in government) will be advising people to take it.

Lack of confidence in Johnson could turn out to be a real problem. They could always wheel out someone else of course, I’m sure Priti Patel could come out and threaten us all with indefinite detention for not taking a vaccine shot!

I can just picture the scene in hundreds of hospitals, clinics and surgeries across the UK as patients roll up their sleeves for their Boris Booster: "Now, you might feel a small prick...."

 

[trebor79]

No lockdown in South Korea because there was no need to - they had effective trace and tracking systems, and cases were nowhere near as bad as in Europe. Man, I wish Europe (including the UK) would be like South Korea.

No lockdown in Sweden because all the Swedish government cared about was the economy and nothing else.

Right. But you said a lockdown was "the only" method of controlling the virus. It isn't. All these places have have avoided or halted exponential growth in cases without lockdowns.
I wish some other governments had cared a little more about the economy. There is no balance in what's being done.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Right. But you said a lockdown was "the only" method of controlling the virus. It isn't. All these places have have avoided or halted exponential growth in cases without lockdowns.
I wish some other governments had cared a little more about the economy. There is no balance in what's being done.

No, I said lockdown is the only method of controlling the virus if cases and deaths are so high that something needs to be done to halt the spread. If we can avoid lockdown, then I don't see why not.

 

[talldave]

No, I said lockdown is the only method of controlling the virus if cases and deaths are so high that something needs to be done to halt the spread. If we can avoid lockdown, then I don't see why not.

How high is so high?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

How high is so high?

Like what we experienced in April. So more than 10,000 new cases and more than 5,000 new deaths.

 

[talldave]

Like what we experienced in April. So more than 10,000 new cases and more than 5,000 new deaths.

Measured over what period? Bearing in mind around 1700 people die every day, day in, day out.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Measured over what period? Bearing in mind around 1700 people die every day, day in, day out.

The whole month of April, maybe?

 

[talldave]

The whole month of April, maybe?

So 10,000 cases and 5,000 deaths. Is "a case" a positive test result regardless of whether the person is ill or not? Why a 50% death rate assumed?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

So 10,000 cases and 5,000 deaths. Is "a case" a positive test result regardless of whether the person is ill or not? Why a 50% death rate assumed?

Positive test if a person is ill

 

[yorkie]

Positive test if a person is ill

Most people who are exposed to the virus don't seem to get ill though.

 

[talldave]

Most people who are exposed to the virus don't seem to get ill though.

And most people who get ill don't die.

 

[DB]

And most people who get ill don't die.

Or even get hospitalised.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Most people who are exposed to the virus don't seem to get ill though.

Whilst this may be a good thing, the problem is that you are spreading to others who are more vulnerable without even knowing it.

 

[yorkie]

Whilst this may be a good thing, the problem is that you are spreading to others who are more vulnerable without even knowing it.

Which makes an elimination strategy impracticable!

Surely we should therefore learn to live with the virus?

Covid-19: 'We must learn to live with the virus'

The coronavirus is not going to go away, says WHO's special envoy for Covid-19 David Nabarro.

www.bbc.co.uk

"We have all got to learn to live with this virus, to do our business with this virus in our presence, to have social relations with this virus in our presence and not to be continuously having to be in lockdown because of the widespread infections that can occur," Mr Nabarro added.

 

[FQTV]

Following four cases of community transmission, the Prime Minister of New Zealand has announced that Auckland is going back into lockdown.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has announced Auckland will go into lockdown and the rest of the country will go into level 2. It comes after four cases of community transmission were confirmed - after 102 days without any. As of noon tomorrow, Auckland will move to level 3 for three days until midnight on Friday.

Auckland in lockdown, rest of country in level 2 after community transmission

It comes after four cases of community transmission.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Which makes an elimination strategy impracticable!

Surely we should therefore learn to live with the virus?

Covid-19: 'We must learn to live with the virus'

The coronavirus is not going to go away, says WHO's special envoy for Covid-19 David Nabarro.

www.bbc.co.uk

We can live with the virus only if it's no worse than normal flu.

 

[Richard Scott]

We can live with the virus only if it's no worse than normal flu.

We need to learn to live with it or we are going to end up with far worse issues such as mental health issues, a population with reduced education, reduced productivity so wealth of country (which remember helps fund the NHS) and people with other medical issues being ignored. When are you going to realise that this virus is not the only thing on the agenda? The reason we can't move forward is due to this. Country and its politicians need to get a grip on reality.

 

[Bantamzen]

Following four cases of community transmission, the Prime Minister of New Zealand has announced that Auckland is going back into lockdown.

Auckland in lockdown, rest of country in level 2 after community transmission

It comes after four cases of community transmission.

www.nzherald.co.nz

"Act as if you have Covid, and as though people around you have Covid."

Dear goodness, my wife has family over in New Zealand and she is wondering if she'll ever see them again. Their PM seems grimly determined to keep them hostage until the virus is literally eradicated, which it will never be. This is what happens when politicians play at science, and set themselves impossible targets.

 

[trebor79]

We can live with the virus only if it's no worse than normal flu.

"Normal flu" killed tens of millions in the Spanish flu epidemic. That flu strain is just one of those that still circulates to this day. Spanish Flu had a death rate way higher than Covid19.
This coronavirus is no worse than "normal flu", in fact if you include all the asymptomatic cases it's probably considerably less deadly.

We need to learn to live with it or we are going to end up with far worse issues such as mental health issues, a population with reduced education, reduced productivity so wealth of country (which remember helps fund the NHS) and people with other medical issues being ignored. When are you going to realise that this virus is not the only thing on the agenda? The reason we can't move forward is due to this. Country and its politicians need to get a grip on reality.

100% agree.

 

[Huntergreed]

Following four cases of community transmission, the Prime Minister of New Zealand has announced that Auckland is going back into lockdown.

Auckland in lockdown, rest of country in level 2 after community transmission

It comes after four cases of community transmission.

www.nzherald.co.nz

I've got a bad feeling this may be Sturgeon's approach. Once she's eliminated it, one case pops up and the area is suddenly locked down with everything closed. This is such an impractical and unsustainable approach, we must learn to live with this virus, and right now we're just not doing that.

 

[DB]

Following four cases of community transmission, the Prime Minister of New Zealand has announced that Auckland is going back into lockdown.

Auckland in lockdown, rest of country in level 2 after community transmission

It comes after four cases of community transmission.

www.nzherald.co.nz

But surely we've been repeatedly told on here that NZ has eradicated it, and we need to follow their model?!

It does rather demonstrate though that if a country miles from anywhere, with a small population, can't eradicate it even with closed borders then it's futile to try...

 

[Richard Scott]

But surely we've been repeatedly told on here that NZ has eradicated it, and we need to follow their model?!

It does rather demonstrate though that if a country miles from anywhere, with a small population, can't eradicate it even with closed borders then it's futile to try...

Like many of us have said!!