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If there were a general election in a month, whom would you vote for to most effectively get us out of this mess?

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DB

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If I had a choice I would like Boris and Mutt Hancock replaced by Ian Duncan Smith and Liam Fox. Although the former might not be everybody's cup of tea they are couple of level headed experienced politicians

Iain Duncan Smith has already had a spell as Tory leader and proved spectacularly useless!
 

edwin_m

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If I had a choice I would like Boris and Mutt Hancock replaced by Ian Duncan Smith and Liam Fox. Although the former might not be everybody's cup of tea they are couple of level headed experienced politicians
Do you mean Liam "easiest trade deal ever" Fox or Liam "the Russians hacked my email" Fox?

Documents on UK-US trade talks, leaked ahead of the 2019 general election, were stolen from an email account belonging to Conservative MP Liam Fox, it has emerged.

The papers were published online and used by Labour in the 2019 campaign to claim the NHS would be put at risk.

The UK government has said Russians almost certainly sought to interfere in the election through the documents.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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If I had a choice I would like Boris and Mutt Hancock replaced by Ian Duncan Smith and Liam Fox. Although the former might not be everybody's cup of tea they are couple of level headed experienced politicians

They give that aura, but they are both rabid brexiters and don't care about the impact.
I'm not sure either of them has enough financial nous, they only know one phrase - WTO rules.
Fox has had shady dealings on defence contracts - we'll soon know if he and Liz Truss have done anything useful as International Trade Secs over the last 4 years.
IDS was the architect of the Universal Credit millstone, which is bogged down in negative fallout.
Sajid Javid might be a better bet - Sajid + Rishi would make an interesting top pair!

I'm reminded that Maggie Thatcher was on the ropes before the Falklands War catapulted her to stardom.
But Covid-19 is nothing like the "short sharp shock" that Maggie could wave the Union Jack over.
 

PHILIPE

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They give that aura, but they are both rabid brexiters and don't care about the impact.
I'm not sure either of them has enough financial nous, they only know one phrase - WTO rules.
Fox has had shady dealings on defence contracts - we'll soon know if he and Liz Truss have done anything useful as International Trade Secs over the last 4 years.
IDS was the architect of the Universal Credit millstone, which is bogged down in negative fallout.
Sajid Javid might be a better bet - Sajid + Rishi would make an interesting top pair!

I'm reminded that Maggie Thatcher was on the ropes before the Falklands War catapulted her to stardom.
But Covid-19 is nothing like the "short sharp shock" that Maggie could wave the Union Jack over.

What has Brexit got to do with it ? How Remainers love to throw a dig about it in. It's over.
 

DB

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What has Brexit got to do with it ? How Remainers love to throw a dig about it in. It's over.

It's not 'over' in that it hasn't fully happened yet.

The current situation is certainly going to be handy for Johnson & co in hiding the economic impact if they fail (as is likely) to get any meaingful trade deals by the end of the year.
 

Busaholic

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I think he means Disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox
The same Liam Fox who (a) imagines he's off to head the infamous World Trade Organisation and (b) whose emails were hacked by the Russians and bits fed to J. Corbyn prior to December's General Election.
 

Butts

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Bring back the Cigar Smoking, Hush Puppy shod, Jazz Loving, dishevelled individual formerly an MP for nearly 50 years !!
 

edwin_m

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What has Brexit got to do with it ? How Remainers love to throw a dig about it in. It's over.
Perhaps because it isn't over, in all probability the economic shock of Covid will be followed by a totally self-inflicted one from Brexit at the end of the year.
And it is pretty hollow, to say the least, when those who claim to be motivated by saving the economy after Covid (at a cost of lives, but mostly poor people and minorities so that doesn't matter)…
…are often the same people who couldn't care less about the economic impact of Brexit (which harms everybody except a few rich speculators)
...and who conned the public into supporting it then railroaded it through against objections when a majority had turned against it.
…who are hell-bent on delivering something totally different from what they promised.
…and by so doing have shown they are either incompetent or venal.

It's a disgrace that these people should now be running the country, but the Corbyn faction should be sharing the blame.
 

PHILIPE

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Perhaps because it isn't over, in all probability the economic shock of Covid will be followed by a totally self-inflicted one from Brexit at the end of the year.
And it is pretty hollow, to say the least, when those who claim to be motivated by saving the economy after Covid (at a cost of lives, but mostly poor people and minorities so that doesn't matter)…
…are often the same people who couldn't care less about the economic impact of Brexit (which harms everybody except a few rich speculators)
...and who conned the public into supporting it then railroaded it through against objections when a majority had turned against it.
…who are hell-bent on delivering something totally different from what they promised.
…and by so doing have shown they are either incompetent or venal.

It's a disgrace that these people should now be running the country, but the Corbyn faction should be sharing the blame.


Typical remainers attitude
 

PHILIPE

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I make no apology for that. Better than sticking your fingers in your ears, saying it's all going to be fine and insulting those who disagree with you.

We don't actually know how things will work out yet but more people who voted preferred to leave and it could even be a case of "if you make your bed you must lie in it". What I am disagreeing with is the throwing in of remarks about Brexit in other topics. People say that people have changed their minds since the vote but how do they know for certain as we have never had another vote. Anyway we are going off topic now.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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We don't actually know how things will work out yet but more people who voted preferred to leave and it could even be a case of "if you make your bed you must lie in it". What I am disagreeing with is the throwing in of remarks about Brexit in other topics. People say that people have changed their minds since the vote but how do they know for certain as we have never had another vote. Anyway we are going off topic now.

Well you brought up the idea of two Brexit ideologues in the top jobs.
If you think Brexit is "over" you are mistaken.
The real hard impact will start on 1 Jan 2021 when free movement and membership of the single market/customs union ends.
 

edwin_m

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We don't actually know how things will work out yet but more people who voted preferred to leave and it could even be a case of "if you make your bed you must lie in it". What I am disagreeing with is the throwing in of remarks about Brexit in other topics. People say that people have changed their minds since the vote but how do they know for certain as we have never had another vote. Anyway we are going off topic now.
Brexit is fundamental to this discussion because it's the only reason the current shower are in office and indicative of thelr low level of competence and honesty. Therefore it's a big reason why we're in such a mess with Covid as well as why we'll probably be in an even worse one in six months.

Anyway, if your concern is going off topic then you could have just said so without throwing in all the "remainer" stuff where you are essentially doing the exact thing you're complaining about. Fortunately I don't regard it as an insult so I won't be adding that to the charge sheet.
 
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jtuk

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There is a group called Make Votes matter that is trying to lobby Starmer to back PR, a voting system I agree we definitely need, which apparently 76% of Labour members would like.

Probably correlated to PR only being liked by parties that cannot win by FPTP, which is the case for Labour for as long as the SNP are hoovering up all the Scottish seats. I'd rather have a system similar to Germany rather than straight PR, which goes completely against my desire to ban political parties, but will leave that there for fear of diverting off topic
 

Butts

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Well you brought up the idea of two Brexit ideologues in the top jobs.
If you think Brexit is "over" you are mistaken.
The real hard impact will start on 1 Jan 2021 when free movement and membership of the single market/customs union ends.

Will this effect my ability to import as many Cigarettes as I like from an EU country provided the applicable rare of duty has been paid in the EU Member State they are purchased from ?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Will this effect my ability to import as many Cigarettes as I like from an EU country provided the applicable rare of duty has been paid in the EU Member State they are purchased from ?

I did download HMRC's proposals for duties after Brexit but can't find it now.
I think the rules for personal imports from the EU will become the same as those from non-EU countries, so like USA, Australia, Turkey, South Africa etc.
Of course David Frost might do a deal before 1 Jan that is better, but it's looking improbable at the moment.
Then there might be the return of duty free on the ferry, but even that wasn't very generous as to quantity... ;)
But I seem to remember the start-up of Eurotunnel/Eurostar as a land connection made the sea crossing ineligible for duty free.

I think we really are off topic now...
 

Butts

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I did download HMRC's proposals for duties after Brexit but can't find it now.
I think the rules for personal imports from the EU will become the same as those from non-EU countries, so like USA, Australia, Turkey, South Africa etc.
Of course David Frost might do a deal before 1 Jan that is better, but it's looking improbable at the moment.
Then there might be the return of duty free on the ferry, but even that wasn't very generous as to quantity... ;)
But I seem to remember the start-up of Eurotunnel/Eurostar as a land connection made the sea crossing ineligible for duty free.

I think we really are off topic now...

Thanks !!

Going back on topic sounds like my only hope is for that renowned smoker Nigel Farage to become PM !!
 

Cowley

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I believe David Cameron was not adverse to the odd one either ?
The way you talk about smoking @Butts I imagine you with four fags in your mouth, two up your nostrils and a couple sticking out of your ears... :lol:
How many do you smoke a day on average do you reckon?
 

Butts

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The way you talk about smoking @Butts I imagine you with four fags in your mouth, two up your nostrils and a couple sticking out of your ears... :lol:
How many do you smoke a day on average do you reckon?

Judging by your description about 80 a Day - you forgot the one sticking out of my arse :E

20 a Day man for forty years - and still here to tell the tale !! - gosh how many fags have I smoked I'm too frightened to do the calculation:oops:

"Pure Gold From Benson and Hedges"
 

Cowley

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Judging by your description about 80 a Day - you forgot the one sticking out of my arse :E

20 a Day man for forty years - and still here to tell the tale !! - gosh how many fags have I smoked I'm too frightened to do the calculation:oops:

"Pure Gold From Benson and Hedges"
:lol:
 

jfollows

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Currently the Fixed-term Parliaments Act says its May 2024. Of course the expectation is this will be repealed, where if the Private Member's bill currently going through Parliament is what replaces it, the plan is to return to the previous legislation, but this appears to still be no later than May 2024.
The Constitution Unit (https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/events/2020/oct/repealing-fixed-term-parliaments-act) ran a short event today which discussed the repeal of the Fixed Term Parliament Act,. building on a report from the House of Lords (https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/2335/documents/24130/default/) published in September.

The main "take away" for me is that it's unlikely that the act will simply be repealed, because it would mean parliament having to un-repeal the Septennial Act 1715 and hand back the power transferred to the House of Commons in 2011. More likely will be replacement legislation which could not readily be challenged in court in future. The reality remains that a government with a majority of one can pass legislation. There was interesting discussion - with which I agreed - that the status quo ante never really gave the prime minister a huge advantage of being able to call an election, but clearly there was some and the future consideration on how much power to give the executive will be interesting.

Today's meeting should be available to view on-line at some point in the near future. [EDIT - : https://youtu.be/JQ0dHLRV5Mg ]

The 1715 act (below) was modified from "seven years" to "five years" by the Parliament Act 1911. But essentially its repeal in 2011 takes power from the monarch to dissolve Parliament, and giving that power "back" would be a bit troublesome.

An Act for enlarging the Time of Continuance of Parliaments, appointed by an Act made in the Sixth Year of the Reign of King William and Queen Mary, intituled An Act for the frequent meeting and calling of Parliaments

Whereas in and by the Meeting of Parliament Act 1694 it was, among other things, enacted, that from thenceforth no Parliament whatsoever, that should at any time thenafter be called, assembled, or held, should have any continuance longer than for three years only at the farthest, to be accounted from the day on which by the writ of summons the said Parliament should be appointed to meet: And whereas it has been found by experience that the said clause hath proved very grievous and burthensome, by occasioning much greater and more continued expences in order to elections of members to serve in Parliament, and more violent and lasting heats and animosities among the subjects of this realm, than were ever known before the said clause was enacted; and the said provision, if it should continue, may probably at this juncture, when a restless and popish faction are designing and endeavouring to renew the rebellion within this kingdom, and an invasion from abroad, be destructive to the peace and security of the government: Be it enacted by the Kings most excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the lords spiritual and temporal, and commons, in Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, that this present Parliament, and all Parliaments that shall at any time hereafter be called, assembled, or held, shall and may respectively have continuance for seven years, and no longer, to be accounted from the day on which by the writ of summons this present Parliament hath been, or any future Parliament shall be, appointed to meet, unless this present or any such Parliament hereafter to be summoned shall be sooner dissolved by his Majesty, his heirs or successors.
 
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