If there were to be new locomotives,what would they be?

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Photohunter71

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Just wondering what would happen if say,we were to order some new locomotives for replacing ageing stock,this would be both electric and diesel. Baring in mind we have already got 66's/67's/70's and the proposed new 68. What other ones would perhaps be seen on our tracks?
 
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Jonny

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The main limiting factor is the standard "loading gauge", known as W6a. It's pretty constrictive, but anything that's going to be viable on the ex-BR mainline is going to have to fit.
 

Yew

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Maybe brush could make an electric loco off the 92 platform? Maybe to Chunnel spec as wellc. To allow them to operate to and on the continent?
 

TDK

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Something that will comply with the new european directive for emissions if it was diesel
 

D365

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Get the old locomotives back in use first, I'm sure we've got way more than enough! But if we need more power for electric haulage and the like, I'd suggest a bi-mode locomotive with diesel power, so that goods yards and low-speed branch lines wouldn't have to be electrified. A Class 92 evolution?
 

sprinterguy

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Get the old locomotives back in use first, I'm sure we've got way more than enough! But if we need more power for electric haulage and the like, I'd suggest a bi-mode locomotive with diesel power, so that goods yards and low-speed branch lines wouldn't have to be electrified. A Class 92 evolution?
The Bombardier Traxx UK proposal would provide an electric locomotive with a small "last mile" diesel power unit to allow it to access yards and sidings.
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Maybe brush could make an electric loco off the 92 platform? Maybe to Chunnel spec as wellc. To allow them to operate to and on the continent?
There are already large numbers of available class 92s, they were incredibly expensive to build and they are less than twenty years old, with some of them having barely turned a wheel in all that time. It would be more sensible to try and get the French to renounce their fears over the structural integrity of the class 92s, given that part of the reason for the locos complexity is to allow their operation on the continent.
 

apk55

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I agree with the suggestion that an electro diesel is the way forward. We are going to have many parts of the country where most of the lines are electrified particularly on the congested lines where smart working is required. Most of the none electrified lines in these areas will probably be low speed and have a limited service so lesser performance on diesel would be acceptable. Only in the remoter parts of the network would pure diesels be required and this could be done for many by cascading units replaced by electro diesels elsewhere. The class 92 is a 20+ year old design and I am sure they could do much better now. On the continent there are many areas where most lines are electrified so the potential market could be large.

While the TRAX design is attractive it is little more than a low powered shunter off wire. However it is designed with a low frequency (16.7Hz) transformer, which if replaced by a 50Hz only version could save as much as 10 tonnes of weight allowing a larger diesel and fuel tank to be fitted. The maximum speed could be limited to say 90mph and the power to 4MW more weight could be saved. It could then become a good class 20 replacement for all the odd duties around the system such as light freight and maintenance trains.

Another design that could be considered is a Bi mode class 37 replacement CoCo design. Keep the weight down to about 110 tonnes and a top speed of a 110MPH, an AC power of 5MW, 3MW on DC and maybe 1 to 1.5MW on Diesel (with something like an HST engine) and you would have a useful general purpose locomotive. It would have enough power to work substantial distances off wire, could go anywhere on the system and could be used for freight and Passengers.

Finally a heavy haul Electro diesel could be considered (a bi mode class 70). With high axle loading and high tractive effort so the maximum speed would have to be limited to maybe 70MPH. But then a substantial diesel engine could be fitted maybe up to 2MW rating as well as 5 or 6MW on AC.
 

Aictos

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I be more then happy with a UK model of the HLE 13s and I11 coaches used by SNCB, they're designed and do the same work that the Class 91s were earmarked for ie both passenger and freight services.

They would be ideal for Cross Country, "hint hint" ;)
 

route:oxford

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Another design that could be considered is a Bi mode class 37 replacement CoCo design. Keep the weight down to about 110 tonnes and a top speed of a 110MPH, an AC power of 5MW, 3MW on DC and maybe 1 to 1.5MW on Diesel (with something like an HST engine) and you would have a useful general purpose locomotive. It would have enough power to work substantial distances off wire, could go anywhere on the system and could be used for freight and Passengers.
Would there be any real point in it having the shoes? It's clear that Southampton is going to be wired up in the not too distant future, so between knitting and diesel it should be fine.
 
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What ageing stock would the locomotives replace? In locomotive lifespan terms the locomotives that are currently working around the system on the front line are hardly middle aged. The only "old" locomotives are the 73s, 31s and 37s but given their light (in railway terms) usage they'll go on for years yet. There's years of life left in the 90s on the G.E. line as well as the 91s on the E.C.M.L. I think - and I'm happy to be proven wrong - that the oldest proper heavy freight stuff are the 59s at about twenty two years old and again, hardly middle aged.
The 92s? One of the world's great money wasting locomotives. Just about the most expensive prime mover built with the least usage.
Several people have mentioned electro-diesels as being really useful. That's exactly what the design boys on the Southern thought when they designed them in 1961/2. With to-day's whizzo technology it should and would be tempting to rip the guts out of the aforementioned 92s and stick a 3,000hp electric package in one end and a 1,000 hp V8 at the other.
 

apk55

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Would there be any real point in it having the shoes? It's clear that Southampton is going to be wired up in the not too distant future, so between knitting and diesel it should be fine.[/QUOTE]

There are probably several duties where third rail operation could be useful for many years to come, for example Channel tunnel freight traffic avoiding the high speed lines. Therefore fitting at least some with third rail gear would be useful. Many of the third rail lines are quite congested so having more power would quite useful in fitting between suburban trains.

Diesel engine design has improved substantially over the last 30 years with engines considerably more efficient and clean, however fuel costs have also gone up considerably more than inflation and we only need another bust up in the middle East for fuel costs to rise even more. Fuel costs are already a considerable part of the operating costs of a loco where as electricity costs about half the amount. Diesel engines are not very efficient when running on part load and use fuel when Idling.

If a class 92 was to be designed today a different approach would be used. IGBT's at the were only just out of the lab at the time so GTO's were used instead. And three phase inverter and induction traction motors technology was in its infancy as against commutator motors used then.
 
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