If you could create any direct services which currently don’t run which would you choose?

[StewLane]

Leicester Loughborough Derby Manchester Bolton Preston Blackpool

 

[faltskog36abba]

Heading north or south?

I agree, I have wanted to get the night sleeper to Scotland for ages- But the boarding time is very late.

 

[itfcfan]

If it had to be a service that could realistically run with current infrastructure, I'd opt for London St Pancras to New Delhi, via Vienna, Istanbul and Tehran.

I think a Talgo variant would provide the best rolling stock option - it should be possible to clear it for the necessary high speed lines in Europe / Turkey, automatic gauge changing at Zahedan should be possible and Talgo have a good track record running on less than ideally maintained lines (e.g. Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, etc). Based on current infrastructure, I've put together a "workable" timetable below - although to make the service viable(!) we'd probably need to shave 12-18 hours off to allow a similar turnaround time to what the Chinese Trans-Mongolian sets have at Moscow.



Although we're unlikely to ever see such a scheduled service, there are rails going all the way (apart from the train ferry for a couple of hours in Turkey) and only one change-of-gauge exists (at the Iran/Pakistan border). Distance wise, it's very much in the same league as the Trans-Mongolian between Moscow and Beijing. The factor that makes things far harder than running the Trans-Mongolian is the larger number of countries involved. However, outside the (current) EU, only four countries are involved (Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and India) versus three for the Trans-Mongolian (Russia, Mongolia and China). Who knows what long distance service could run on part of the route one day(!)

A number of infrastructure improvements are being made in Turkey. Turkey and Iran have restarted a passenger service just this month - 18th June for a Van-Tabriz service. Iran and Pakistan are due to restart the Zahedan-Quetta service in September this year (the security situation is said to have improved considerably). India and Pakistan already have a limited cross-border service. So there is (faint!) hope!

 

[itfcfan]

...If, on the other hand, yet-to-be-built infrastructure can be considered, I'd open for a London to Cape Town service (splitting from the New Delhi service just after Istanbul) running via Damascus (post civil war), Cairo, Khartoum, Addis Ababa, Nairobi, Moshi (change for Dar Es Salaam), Mbeya, Kapiri Mposhi (change for Luanda), Lusaka, Livingstone, Bulawayo, Johannesburg, Cape Town.

At least 50% of the infrastructure is in place, for the other 50% - well, China Railway Group need something to work on once the Chinese HSR network is complete in 2025!

 

[SideshowBob]

Caledonian Sleeper extensions from Ft. William to Mallaig, and from Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh, and swap Preston for Manchester Piccadilly en route.

Rebuilding of the Malton to Pickering line to reinstate the link to Whitby from Leeds/York avoiding the need to change at Middlesborough...

...or at least provide a Mon-Sat service from Whitby arriving at 'Boro around 08:40, and a 17:45 departure back again.

 

[Callum J]

This won't work at the moment for various reasons, but a Clapham Junction - Denmark Hill - Lewisham - Hither Green service to facilitate easy connections between the South West and Southeastern networks avoiding Zone 1.

Good shout. As part of that I'd like to see a 'high level' platform at Brixton added to facilitate connections from Clapham Junction to the Penge East/Beckenham Junction line.

Presume this would be operated by London Overground? Maybe it could extend from Hither Green to Grove Park and onto the Bromley North branch?

 

[Confused147]

Id create a 'circle' line service across Southern Manchester using 323 units:

Stoke-on-Trent
Longport
Kidsgrove
Congleton
Macclesfield
Prestbury
Adlington
Poynton
Bramhall
Cheadle Hulme
Stockport
Manchester Piccadilly

*** THEN A REVERSE **
Mauldeth Road
Burnage
East Didsbury
Heald Green
Gatley
Manchester Airport

** REVERSE **

Styal
Wilmslow
Alderley Edge
Chelford
Goostry
Holmes Chapel
Sandbach
Crewe
Alsager
Kidsgrove
Longport
Stoke-on-Trent

* THEN REVERSE TO MANCHESTER AGAIN SEE TOP **


Do you think it would work?

 

[LBOTG]

I realise that none of these ideas are really feasible as track space in London is full to bursting, but here are some cross-city links I would like to see:

Watford Junction-Bushey-Harrow & Wealdstone-Wembley Central-Shepherd's Bush-Kensington Olympia-West Brompton-Imperial Wharf-Wandsworth Common-Balham-Streatham Hill-West Norwood-Gipsy Hill-Crystal Palace-Birkbeck-Beckenham Junction-Bromley South

Enfield Town-Bush Hill Park-Edmonton Green-Silver Street-White Hart Lane-Bruce Grove-Seven Sisters-South Tottenham-Blackhorse Road-Walthamstow Queen's Road-Leyton Midland Road-Leytonstone High Road-Woodgrange Park-Barking

East Croydon-Norwood Junction-Birkbeck-Beckenham Junction (perhaps branch to Bromley)-New Beckenham-Catford Bridge-Ladywell-Lewisham-Blackheath-Charlton-Woolwich Arsenal (this one in particular requires so many reversals)

 

[frodshamfella]

Liverpool to Cardiff and Swansea via Halton Curve

 

[traction22]

If you could create any direct services which currently don’t run which would you choose?

London King’s Cross - Peterborough - Retford - Worksop - Sheffield - Barnsley - Penistone - Huddersfield - Hebden Bridge - Burnley MR - Accrington - Blackburn - Preston - Blackpool South

I like that. For the haters, it's not about a link between London and Blackpool, but a decent link to the coast from Yorkshire (and Lancashire) as well as additional journeys to London from Yorkshire, Retford, Worksop, Peterborough.

Generally, even if summer only, more 'market town' to coastal trains are required AND finally ...

More sleeper services for cross country journeys to the most northerly of Scotland to the deepest South of England.

 

[traction22]

oh, and nighttime services particuarly to airports are a must. I'm thinking the Transpennine Express from Manchester Airport to Doncaster if not Cleethorpes to run ideally hourly, but possibly every couple of hours.
Same for the St Pancras to Sheffield via (slow or fast) running through the night.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't know why I didn't say this earlier.

Huddersfield - York via Normanton and Castleford. Could be a real boost to the five towns area.

 

[SteveyBee131]

oh, and nighttime services particuarly to airports are a must. I'm thinking the Transpennine Express from Manchester Airport to Doncaster if not Cleethorpes to run ideally hourly, but possibly every couple of hours.

AGREED! Wholeheartedly! The last train from here to anywhere useful is around 20:30!

Anyway, this thread isn't a debate so I'll be quiet now

 

[Dannys]

Edinburgh-Perth-Inverness-Dingwall-Wick/Kyle.
(I think Platform 5 can just about fit a 2 car Cl158 which can arrive from Perth, and reverse out onto the Highland line!)

 

[HowardGWR]

Weymouth to Gatwick and Victoria using 444s throughout.

 

[Ianno87]

Edinburgh-Perth-Inverness-Dingwall-Wick/Kyle.
(I think Platform 5 can just about fit a 2 car Cl158 which can arrive from Perth, and reverse out onto the Highland line!)

I'm sure everyone will be delighted to squeeze onto a 2-car just to save a few people the walk around the back of the buffer stops at Inverness...

 

[Dannys]

I'm sure everyone will be delighted to squeeze onto a 2-car just to save a few people the walk around the back of the buffer stops at Inverness...

It would only run once a day, and suppliment the existing service south of Inverness - scheduled to leave Inverness shortly after one of the existing Inverness-Edinburgh services, (maybe 15-20 minutes later) so the vast majority of passengers on from Inverness are making through journeys. I would also only run 1 a day in each direction, am southbound, pm northbound.

 

[xotGD]

Leicester and Nottingham to north east England and Scotland.

 

[Harbornite]

Wouldn't mind seeing an Edinburgh and Glasgow to Plymouth or Penzance sleeper service. Class 90s can be used on the Scottish legs and the run down to Birmingham New Street via Preston, with a diesel loco taking over at New street; preferably a 47 or 68.

 

[Pigeon]

Birmingham (via Kidderminster)/Hereford - Worcester SH (combine) - Gloucester - Swindon - Reading - Redhill - Ashford - Dover
Birmingham - Worcester - {Gloucester - Chepstow}/Hereford (alternating) - Newport - Swansea - Carmarthen (split/make connections for the ends of the brush)
Weymouth - Westbury - Melksham - Swindon - (Didcot west curve) - Oxford - Leamington - Coventry - Nuneaton - Leicester - Peterborough - Cambridge (using HSTs, and with the Peterborough-Cambridge section line speed raised to 125mph, nearly all of it is dead straight after all, because that endless flat bit is soooo boring and seems to take forever to traverse)
Pancreas - Kettering - Corby - Melton - (reinstate the missing bit at the north end of Old Dalby) - Nottingham - Mansfield - Sheffield - Derby - Crewe

London/Oxford to Birmingham NS via Evesham. Hourly service. Change at Worcester SH for Hereford.

Would make life easier for me

Well I was going to suggest starting the Chiltern Kidderminster-London services back at Shrub Hill, so let's combine the ideas:

London to London. Circular service. Paddington - Oxford - Worcester - Kidderminster - BNS - Banbury - Wycombe - Paddington (and the other way round). There used to be one, in the stated direction (not sure whether it turned left or right at Droitwich though, and don't know if there was one the other way too), that departed Worcester SH at 1235, and provided an unusual opportunity for loco haulage (often a Peak) over an otherwise DMU-saturated route. According to Google I'm the only person on the internet who remembers this, which surely can't be right.

Slip coaches

Oh well, if you're allowed to do that, I'm allowed to do this...

...Pils coaches

At the station, you have a separate platform road with sprung trailing points to get back onto the through road, and probably an extra-long block section after the station. Under the floor of the pils coach, as well as the standard slip-coach apparatus, there is an energy storage flywheel connected to a fusee with a few hundred metres of steel cable wound onto it, and an eye on the end of the cable. When it is ready to depart, the pils guard pulls a lever which extends an arm out to one side of the coach, holding the eye up at solebar height in between the tracks, where it engages a hook sticking out from the rear of the main portion of the train as it passes. Initially, the pull on the cable both accelerates the pils coach and spins up the flywheel; once all the cable has been paid out, the flywheel then winds it in again, transferring the flywheel's energy to the coach and winching it up to the back of the main train, where an auto-coupler engages. The fusee ensures that the initial take-up is smooth and that the engagement of the coach with the main train is gentle. There is also a crank handle somewhere so that if something goes wrong and the cable doesn't wind all the way back in on its own, the pils guard can winch it in by hand (rather slowly, but never mind).

The idea is, of course, that the down train spitting off slip coaches at every junction it passes can be balanced by an up train collecting pils coaches on the fly on the way back, thus getting around the unpleasant limitation of a conventional slip coach setup that it only works one way while causing endless faffing around going the other way.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Bradford Forster Square to Southport via Whitehall curve, Normanton, Wakefield Kirkgate, Mirfield, Brighouse, Todmorden, Manchester Victoria, Atherton, Wigan Wallgate. Service exists purely to provide a direct service from Apperley Bridge to to Appley Bridge.

Huddersfield to Blackpool South via Brighouse, Hebden Bridge, Burnley Manchester Road, Blackburn, Preston, Kirkham. Operated with restored heritage 2-car units which will fit in Huddersfield P5.

 

[yorksrob]

Bradford Forster Square to Southport via Whitehall curve, Normanton, Wakefield Kirkgate, Mirfield, Brighouse, Todmorden, Manchester Victoria, Atherton, Wigan Wallgate. Service exists purely to provide a direct service from Apperley Bridge to to Appley Bridge.
.

Although as it happens, I would find that service very useful for a journey I make several times a year !

 

[lyndhurst25]

Manchester Piccadilly - Chesterfield - Derby - Leicester - St Pancras
(competing with VTWC on price, rather than speed)

Sheffield - Worksop - Retford - Peterborough - Kings Cross
(competing with EMT on speed)

 

[Ian Brown]

My fantasy favourite would be a Windermere to Manchester Airport electric service via Bolton and Manchester.

 

[cle]

Manchester Piccadilly - Chesterfield - Derby - Leicester - St Pancras
(competing with VTWC on price, rather than speed)

Sheffield - Worksop - Retford - Peterborough - Kings Cross
(competing with EMT on speed)

Seconded. The best true example of competition we have is London to Birmingham on two routes.
Hence I'd say London to X City via another route is what to explore. Wrexham and Shrewbury was a fantastic offering, but fundamentally didn't go anywhere that important, and couldn't even snag Wolves. Some of course would be better with wires and some dive-unders/flyovers. They need to be hourly, 45 mins or less slower than the established main route, and keenly priced.

St Pancras to Manchester via Derby (possibly more to Leeds too)
Kings Cross to both Nottingham and Sheffield via Grantham
Kings Cross to Norwich via Cambridge
Paddington to Southampton/Bournemouth via Reading

as some examples

 

[JOHNR150]

Wick to Penzance operated by a single Class 153 unit. Via the West Coast, it would have the benefit of a mobile catering service. In order to seat more passengers would remove the toilet. Would naturally apply fresh vynls to the units and provide some market guff to keep people happy and promote the new 'modern' services.

 

[318266]

I suggested that, but via the East Coast. And caling at every station.

 

[JOHNR150]

I suggested that, but via the East Coast. And caling at every station.

The railway in the UK is cutting edge compared to much of the world so a service such as that would match its international reputation.

 

[JOHNR150]

If it had to be a service that could realistically run with current infrastructure, I'd opt for London St Pancras to New Delhi, via Vienna, Istanbul and Tehran.

I think a Talgo variant would provide the best rolling stock option - it should be possible to clear it for the necessary high speed lines in Europe / Turkey, automatic gauge changing at Zahedan should be possible and Talgo have a good track record running on less than ideally maintained lines (e.g. Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, etc). Based on current infrastructure, I've put together a "workable" timetable below - although to make the service viable(!) we'd probably need to shave 12-18 hours off to allow a similar turnaround time to what the Chinese Trans-Mongolian sets have at Moscow.

View attachment 48727

Although we're unlikely to ever see such a scheduled service, there are rails going all the way (apart from the train ferry for a couple of hours in Turkey) and only one change-of-gauge exists (at the Iran/Pakistan border). Distance wise, it's very much in the same league as the Trans-Mongolian between Moscow and Beijing. The factor that makes things far harder than running the Trans-Mongolian is the larger number of countries involved. However, outside the (current) EU, only four countries are involved (Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and India) versus three for the Trans-Mongolian (Russia, Mongolia and China). Who knows what long distance service could run on part of the route one day(!)

A number of infrastructure improvements are being made in Turkey. Turkey and Iran have restarted a passenger service just this month - 18th June for a Van-Tabriz service. Iran and Pakistan are due to restart the Zahedan-Quetta service in September this year (the security situation is said to have improved considerably). India and Pakistan already have a limited cross-border service. So there is (faint!) hope!

That would need to be cleared with the DfT, and we must ensure a ROSCO is able to make an eight figure income from the leasing of the rolling stock. The passenger can always pay higher fares as needed and the DfT\government\media can manipulate as needed to ensure people feel it is good value. One blocker that might upset the planned agenda is that to fly to New Delhi is actually quite cheap not to mention the benefit of cruising at 500-570mph depending on the aircraft equipment.

 

[PeterC]

If it had to be a service that could realistically run with current infrastructure, I'd opt for London St Pancras to New Delhi, via Vienna, Istanbul and Tehran.

I think a Talgo variant would provide the best rolling stock option - it should be possible to clear it for the necessary high speed lines in Europe / Turkey, automatic gauge changing at Zahedan should be possible and Talgo have a good track record running on less than ideally maintained lines (e.g. Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, etc). Based on current infrastructure, I've put together a "workable" timetable below - although to make the service viable(!) we'd probably need to shave 12-18 hours off to allow a similar turnaround time to what the Chinese Trans-Mongolian sets have at Moscow.

View attachment 48727

Although we're unlikely to ever see such a scheduled service, there are rails going all the way (apart from the train ferry for a couple of hours in Turkey) and only one change-of-gauge exists (at the Iran/Pakistan border). Distance wise, it's very much in the same league as the Trans-Mongolian between Moscow and Beijing. The factor that makes things far harder than running the Trans-Mongolian is the larger number of countries involved. However, outside the (current) EU, only four countries are involved (Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and India) versus three for the Trans-Mongolian (Russia, Mongolia and China). Who knows what long distance service could run on part of the route one day(!)

A number of infrastructure improvements are being made in Turkey. Turkey and Iran have restarted a passenger service just this month - 18th June for a Van-Tabriz service. Iran and Pakistan are due to restart the Zahedan-Quetta service in September this year (the security situation is said to have improved considerably). India and Pakistan already have a limited cross-border service. So there is (faint!) hope!

There would be fewer security issues with London - Hong Kong which has always been my fantasy route, not to mention the infrastructure for guage changes being in place.