If you could create any direct services which currently don’t run which would you choose?

[Class 170101]

St Pancras to Manchester via Derby (possibly more to Leeds too)
Kings Cross to both Nottingham and Sheffield via Grantham
Kings Cross to Norwich via Cambridge
Paddington to Southampton/Bournemouth via Reading
as some examples

The St Pancras service to Manchester I think should be instead of one of the Corby services and run as the slowest service as it won't compete on speed as highlighted from London but could on price. (A connecting shuttle provided to / from Kettering instead.)

St Pancras to Leeds should be an extension of the Nottingham fast - again wouldn't win on speed from London to Leeds compared to the ECML but price certainly.

No space at Kings Cross for the extra services from ECML to Sheffield via Nottingham unless you divert the Newark services there but that would be at the expense of Lincoln which I think would be a more preferable destination.

Kings Cross to Norwich may work if splitting at Ely or the existing Ely terminator is extended to Norwich. However the route to Kings Lynn is getting busier so needs longer trains

As for Paddington to Southampton / Bournemouth via Reading I could see that happening as a result of HS2 at Old Oak Common and wouldn't rule it out.

 

[Killingworth]

This sounds brilliant! Especially with the Cleethorpes extension shame it's only a pipe dream

It is a pipe dream with the current congestion through platforms 13 and 14 at Manchester Piccadilly, otherwise it's possibly not. If done now those at the extremities of the route would rarely get there due to trains being turned short of final destination.

 

[yorksrob]

That takes the bacon.

If you went in the other direction, you could end up at Appledore for pudding.

 

[Philip]

Cleethorpes to Blackpool - using current TPE stopping pattern as far as Sheffield, then calling at Dore & Totley, Stockport, Manchester Vic (via Denton), Salford Crescent, Bolton, Chorley, Preston, Blackpool.

Doncaster to Man Airport - Meadowhall, Sheffield, Stockport, Manchester Picc, Man Airport.

Manchester Vic to Shrewsbury - Salford Crescent, Bolton, Westhaughton, Wigan NW, Warrington, Chester, Crewe, Nantwich, Whitchurch, Shrewsbury.

 

[telstarbox]

Doncaster to Manchester Airport already exists?

 

[Philip]

Doncaster to Manchester Airport already exists?

It was to tie in with my idea of a Cleethorpes-Blackpool service, so that Sheffield and Doncaster don't lose their direct Airport service and so that the Sheffield-Piccadilly frequency isn't reduced.

 

[SeanG]

Manchester Vic to Shrewsbury - Salford Crescent, Bolton, Westhoughton, Wigan NW, Warrington, Chester, Crewe, Nantwich, Whitchurch, Shrewsbury.

Why Westhoughton and not Hindley? What about Runcorn East? Seems an odd stopping pattern that's all.

 

[Philip]

Why Westhoughton and not Hindley? What about Runcorn East? Seems an odd stopping pattern that's all.

Isn't Hindley having its frequency doubled anyway with the extra services on the Atherton line? Runcorn East will be served by two trains per hour when the Leeds-Chester service starts. I was thinking it could be an extension of the existing Manchester-Wigan via Bolton (so maybe starting from Stalybridge?). I guess a Wigan-Chester service could be useful, along with direct Chester-Nantwich-Whitchurch trains.

 

[Aictos]

Bedford to Milton Keynes via Bletchley
Peterborough to Lincoln to be extended to Doncaster (There is a daily service but this will increase them)
Nuneaton to Banbury via Coventry and Leamington Spa
Nottingham to Carlisle via Leeds
Crewe to Nottingham via Derby
Blackpool North to Scarborough via York
Doncaster to York via Scarborough
Birmingham to Stirling via Motherwell
Penzance to Aberdeen
St Pancras to Manchester
Cambridge to Birmingham Moor Street

That's just for starters....

 

[Aictos]

London Waterloo to Horsham via Dorking
London Victoria to Portsmouth via Dorking
Birmingham International to Stansted Airport
Dunbar to Haymarket via Fife Circle
Kings Cross to Cleethorpes via Lincoln
Blackpool South to Manchester Victoria via Accrington
Kings Cross to Nottingham via Grantham
North Berwick to Edinburgh via South Suburban (Edinburgh)
Birmingham Moor Street to Hereford
Nottingham to Birmingham Moor Street via Leicester
London Euston to Shrewsbury via Crewe
Peterborough to Inverness
Edinburgh to Oban/Fort William
Glasgow Queen Street to North Berwick

A few more as mentioned above

 

[Killingworth]

Cleethorpes to Blackpool - using current TPE stopping pattern as far as Sheffield, then calling at Dore & Totley, Stockport, Manchester Vic (via Denton), Salford Crescent, Bolton, Chorley, Preston, Blackpool.

Doncaster to Man Airport - Meadowhall, Sheffield, Stockport, Manchester Picc, Man Airport.

These two might work. The Hope Valley Capacity Scheme is designed to allow a 3rd fast train per hour between Sheffield and Manchester, the Manchester station unspecified.

However the airport stops are well used by travellers from South Humberside and Dore & Totley and there'd be strong resistance to losing them.

Possible starting points suggested for the 3rd service on the western side have included Blackpol, Liverpool and Chester.

Maybe some combination of these will emerge when the Capacity Scheme gets nearer reality. But to push anything extra through Manchester the bottlenecks between Warrington and Stockport need resolving.

See the Platform 15 & 16 thread. Manchester is currently choking with trains they can't get through anywhere near on time now, without adding any more.

 

[Philip]

That's why I suggested routing it via Denton into Victoria, unless Victoria is also at full capacity? I think the Bolton line would be the best route once beyond Manchester; if 185s were used for instance then they could make full use of the 100mph track between Manc and Preston, which neither the Liverpool or Chester routes can offer.

Whilst Cleethorpes and points east of Doncaster would lose the direct Airport connection, it could open up new connection opportunities to Preston and Blackpool, similar to what York has now with the existing service.

 

[route101]

London Waterloo to Horsham via Dorking
London Victoria to Portsmouth via Dorking
Birmingham International to Stansted Airport
Dunbar to Haymarket via Fife Circle
Kings Cross to Cleethorpes via Lincoln
Blackpool South to Manchester Victoria via Accrington
Kings Cross to Nottingham via Grantham
North Berwick to Edinburgh via South Suburban (Edinburgh)
Birmingham Moor Street to Hereford
Nottingham to Birmingham Moor Street via Leicester
London Euston to Shrewsbury via Crewe
Peterborough to Inverness
Edinburgh to Oban/Fort William
Glasgow Queen Street to North Berwick

A few more as mentioned above

There already is Glasgow?/Ayr to North Berwick . Queen St would be quicker though

 

[AndrewE]

These two might work. The Hope Valley Capacity Scheme is designed to allow a 3rd fast train per hour between Sheffield and Manchester, the Manchester station unspecified.
However the airport stops are well used by travellers from South Humberside and Dore & Totley and there'd be strong resistance to losing them.

Possible starting points suggested for the 3rd service on the western side have included Blackpool, Liverpool and Chester..

I would think not terminating in Manchester Vic would be sensible... but having worked in (and obviously with natives of) both Sheffield and Liverpool I would be surprised if that option was a popular choice! I don't know whether relations are any easier now, or whether things will improve if any Yorkshire policemen get convicted, but I found it very difficut to get my Eastern colleagues to help out on a (non-railway) job in Liverpool about 14 years ago...

 

[SteveyBee131]

Cleethorpes to Blackpool - using current TPE stopping pattern as far as Sheffield, then calling at Dore & Totley, Stockport, Manchester Vic (via Denton), Salford Crescent, Bolton, Chorley, Preston, Blackpool.

Doncaster to Man Airport - Meadowhall, Sheffield, Stockport, Manchester Picc, Man Airport...

What about running them both as a portion train, best of both worlds then

 

[Killingworth]

That's why I suggested routing it via Denton into Victoria, unless Victoria is also at full capacity? I think the Bolton line would be the best route once beyond Manchester; if 185s were used for instance then they could make full use of the 100mph track between Manc and Preston, which neither the Liverpool or Chester routes can offer.

Whilst Cleethorpes and points east of Doncaster would lose the direct Airport connection, it could open up new connection opportunities to Preston and Blackpool, similar to what York has now with the existing service.

I don't think Blackpool has quite the same attraction as Manchester Airport. Forget that part of the suggestion, but running a Doncaster, Sheffield, Victoria, Blackpool service might be helpful. There seems to be plenty of spare platform space there, whereas Piccadilly, Victoria and Lime Street all seem under more pressure.

 

[The Ham]

Here are a few:

North East Hampshire with North West Hampshire (i.e. Farnborough to Andover). This would be fairly easy to do once electrification had reached Salisbury, in that you could just extend the Basingstoke Stoppers to Salisbury. It would also mean that you would do away with two fiat junction movements an hour at Basingstoke and the associated blocking of platform one for the terminating and then restarting of the service. It could also allow the current DMU services to skip some of the more minor stations whilst increasing the frequency of the trains at those stations to 2tph.

Okehampton to Waterloo. In the nothing this could be achieved by running a Waterloo service out to Okehampton so that it was back in time to make its run to London. This would give people from the stations on the Barnstaple line (before the junction) a chance, or a better chance, to use trains to get to work in the morning. As currently the arrival times are about 8am and about 10am, which aren't ideal. Even if you get the 8am train, if they cancelled for any reason then you are going to be very late.

Ascot to Basingstoke. Although this would require a new grade separated junction at Frimley Green there's a fair amount of capacity on the two lines so patching shouldn't be a problem. It would provide the residents of Frimley and Camberley an option for a faster route to Waterloo. There would be better connectivity within an urban area with a lot of people where there's often peak hour traffic congestion impacting the buses. There could be scope for new stations at Watchmoor Park and Southwood where there's large employment developments as well as at Fleet West where there's been a lot of housing built in the last 20 years. It would provide extra capacity to Hook and Winchfield where there's been some development in the last few years and now to come. Finally it would provide a diversion route around Woking, which although shouldn't count in the business case could reduce the costs for further maintenance and enhancement schemes by removing the need for as many replacement buses.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I'd probably want a limited service to and from Liverpool and Portsmouth. I believe this use to happen. I'd be tempted to start with Class 158's as it use to be I think, before moving to 100mph trains for new stock.

I'm not sure which route I'd want it to take but perhaps a few limited calling points to and from Liverpool and Cardiff before say integrating it (if that's the right word, if not tell me) with the to and from Cardiff and Portsmouth services. I can't decide if I'd want these to start at Liverpool Lime Street, South Parkway and Portsmouth Harbour or Southsea.

I'd suggest the faster route via Birmingham but that's full at capacity I believe. However joining and splitting at Stockport rather than Manchester Piccadilly would be more appropriate given the level of passengers at Stockport. So perhaps it could link up with XC's Bristol - Manchester services and GWR's Cardiff - Portsmouth services somehow. So maybe XC, therefore, could take over from GWR on their Portsmouth routes !

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

deleted due to making a royal mess of my quoting!!

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Cleethorpes to Blackpool - using current TPE stopping pattern as far as Sheffield, then calling at Dore & Totley, Stockport, Manchester Vic (via Denton), Salford Crescent, Bolton, Chorley, Preston, Blackpool.

Doncaster to Man Airport - Meadowhall, Sheffield, Stockport, Manchester Picc, Man Airport.

Manchester Vic to Shrewsbury - Salford Crescent, Bolton, Westhaughton, Wigan NW, Warrington, Chester, Crewe, Nantwich, Whitchurch, Shrewsbury.

Just wondering, Why go to Chester and reverse? Why not go direct to Crewe from Warrington?

 

[NorthKent1989]

This won't work at the moment for various reasons, but a Clapham Junction - Denmark Hill - Lewisham - Hither Green service to facilitate easy connections between the South West and Southeastern networks avoiding Zone 1.

Years ago in the early or mid 2000s the Former SRA (Strategic Rail Authority) there were plans for such a service but from Plumstead.

 

[NorthKent1989]

The first two would serve as Crossrail feeder routes from outer East and South Kent, faster further out semi fast in the inner London areas:

1: Cannon Street, London Bridge, Deptford, Greenwich, Charlton, Woolwich Arsenal, Plumstead,
Abbey Wood, Dartford, Greenhithe, Gravesend, Higham, Strood, Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Sittingborne, Faversham & Canterbury West

2: Charing Cross, Waterloo East, London Bridge, Lewisham, Blackheath, Charlton, Woolwich Arsenal, Plumstead, Abbey Wood, Dartford, Greenhithe, Gravesend, Higham, Strood, Maidstone West,
Tonbridge

The next one probably would never happen but this is a rail journey, that did run until the 50s/60s,

Charing X, Waterloo East, London Bridge, New Cross Gate, East Croydon, Purley, Redhill, then 1tph will call only at Dorking West and Guildford then all stations to Reading, 1tph would be all stations to Guildford then fast to Wokingham, then all stops to Reading, this would mainly be a service to areas that aren’t directly served by a London terminal on the North Downs Line.

 

[AndrewE]

3) Nottingham-Derby-Stoke-Crewe-Chester (maybe Wrexham)(

+1 for this, I'm surprised no-one else has commented. We have acknowledged the problem of crossing the layout at Crewe in another thread, I think, but I think it's still worth trying to make more of what could be a much more useful cross-country service. I would hope for a terminus even further east even if it's not Skegness! Grantham?
[Edit: apologies, I've only just spotted class 403's support.]

 

[Class 170101]

I would think not terminating in Manchester Vic would be sensible... but having worked in (and obviously with natives of) both Sheffield and Liverpool I would be surprised if that option was a popular choice! I don't know whether relations are any easier now, or whether things will improve if any Yorkshire policemen get convicted, but I found it very difficut to get my Eastern colleagues to help out on a (non-railway) job in Liverpool about 14 years ago...

There is already a service, run by EMT, between Sheffield and Liverpool. Can't see why another service wouldn't work. Not everyone likes or is / has been involved in football.

 

[AndrewE]

There is already a service, run by EMT, between Sheffield and Liverpool. Can't see why another service wouldn't work. Not everyone likes or is / has been involved in football.

All true, but there did seem to be a real fear or unwillingness on the part of my Sheffield colleagues to get involved in work in Liverpool.

 

[6Gman]

+1 for this, I'm surprised no-one else has commented. We have acknowledged the problem of crossing the layout at Crewe in another thread, I think, but I think it's still worth trying to make more of what could be a much more useful cross-country service. I would hope for a terminus even further east even if it's not Skegness! Grantham?
[Edit: apologies, I've only just spotted class 403's support.]

It's not just the crossing of the layout at Crewe; it's also platform time. At the moment the Chester has exclusive use of p.9 and the Derby has exclusive use of p.4 *. A through service could only use ps. 6 (very busy), 11 (very busy) and 12 (rather isolated).

* Very occasionally LNW uses p.4

 

[Metal_gee_man]

If TFL were to give up control of the Elizabeth Line/Crossrail system, then services from Norwich, Ipswich, Southend & Stansted from Anglia, Services from Dover, Ashford, Tonbridge & the Medway Towns could run through the central tunnels to destinations along the Great Western Mainline, maybe Oxford, Bristol, Cardiff or Gloucester! Creating a great East/West connection! The 24tph could be maintained through the central section, very much like the Thameslink system

 

[Killingworth]

All true, but there did seem to be a real fear or unwillingness on the part of my Sheffield colleagues to get involved in work in Liverpool.

I live in Sheffield and know of people who commute to Liverpool by train. It's a ghastly journey at present unless you start very early with the train about 6.20. The East Midlands trains back are often half an hour late in the evenings for a train timetabled to take almost 2 hours from Liverpool, under an hour from Manchester to Sheffield.

There's currently no room for all the trains running now, let alone any more. I haven't detected any reluctance to work in Liverpool for the reasons stated by AndrewE, more the distance and time factors. Which is why the bottleneck through Manchester needs resolving, and other bottlenecks on the Hope Valley route and elsewhere.

 

[jhy44]

Birmingham - Lincoln.
Birmingham - Swansea.

Two hugely glaring omissions in my view.
Conveniently both could be obtained by extending the Nottingham - Cardiff to Lincoln - Swansea.

 

[james60059]

I would resurrect a historical one, for purely selfish reasons - The daytime boat train from London to Fishguard Harbour:

London Paddington - Reading - Swindon - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central - **Swansea District Line** - Llanelli - Whitland - Fishguard Harbour. Same for the return.