If you could open 10 stations in Scotland...

[Bletchleyite]

Culrain and Invershin are 34 chains apart, but it is not possible to walk between the two stations.

In between is the Kyle of Sutherland, and the railway is the only means of getting from one side to the other at that location. The nearest alternative for crossing the Kyle of Sutherland is the road bridge between Ardgay and Bonar Bridge more than 3 miles away.

This was true before but a footbridge was built in 2000, presumably to reduce trespass.

(Along similar lines an Arnside to Grange footbridge would likely eliminate late evening trespass on this viaduct)

 

[lachlan]

This was true before but a footbridge was built in 2000, presumably to reduce trespass.

(Along similar lines an Arnside to Grange footbridge would likely eliminate late evening trespass on this viaduct)

The "push to stop" buttons at request stops should allow them to reduce journey times but I haven't heard anything for a while.

My list of 10 stations would start with Newtonhill, Cove, and Kittybrewster (for Aberdeen uni) as this is the area I'm familiar with. The shuttle service to serve these is already there. Newtonhill station is controversial due to lack of space for a car park or building over the Meadows and reducing the gap between Newtonhill Muchalls depending on the site chosen.

Then Winchburgh and Kirkliston ought to be next on the list. Winchburgh already discussed, Kirkliston could be served by Fife to Glasgow trains but would presumably be better served if the curve to Edinburgh was added.

For the remaining five, assuming no or minimal new track, I'm not sure but there's already several good suggestions in this thread.

 

[daodao]

The "push to stop" buttons at request stops should allow them to reduce journey times but I haven't heard anything for a while.

My list of 10 stations would start with Newtonhill, Cove, and Kittybrewster (for Aberdeen uni) as this is the area I'm familiar with. The shuttle service to serve these is already there. Newtonhill station is controversial due to lack of space for a car park or building over the Meadows and reducing the gap between Newtonhill Muchalls depending on the site chosen.

Then Winchburgh and Kirkliston ought to be next on the list. Winchburgh already discussed, Kirkliston could be served by Fife to Glasgow trains but would presumably be better served if the curve to Edinburgh was added.

For the remaining five, assuming no or minimal new track, I'm not sure but there's already several good suggestions in this thread.

A sensible approach (other than Kirkliston, as there are currently no regular passenger trains on the line passing it). The greatest benefit is in opening suburban stations that are fairly close to a large city and can be served by a frequent existing train service (at least 2 tph); this applies throughout Great Britain and Ireland. Developing the Inverurie-Aberdeen-Stonehaven local service would be a worthwhile use of resources, in contrast to opening rural stations distant from large cities on lines that only have a 1tp2h service at best.

 

[D6130]

it’s a real shame. Strathaven is a lovely town but it’s is in the middle of nowhere and there has been a lot of housebuilding in that area recently I do believe the locals got together and created a community bus service but I’m not sure how that’s going.

Very true. My wife and I travelled on the community bus for a day out from Glasgow the Summer before last. It was very lightly-loaded as far as Stonehouse - just us and one other woman - but once off the motorway it fulfills the role of a local service and quite a few people got on and off between Stonehouse and Strathaven, ending-up with about 12 getting off at the terminus. However, we were travelling contra-peak and the driver told us that it's pretty busy going into Glasgow in the morning and returning in the evening. I wonder how many Strathaven commuters drive into either East Kilbride or Hamilton to take the train into Glasgow?

 

[Magdalia]

This was true before but a footbridge was built in 2000, presumably to reduce trespass

Thanks, that didn't show up on the map I was looking at.

 

[gingerheid]

it’s a real shame. Strathaven is a lovely town but it’s is in the middle of nowhere and there has been a lot of housebuilding in that area recently I do believe the locals got together and created a community bus service but I’m not sure how that’s going.

I have a soft spot for Strathaven - such a lovely place. But even then it's hard to argue that it's realistic for it to see a train
The bus is doing amazingly; now up to half hourly morning peaks, hourly most of the day, and an evening service starting to appear! https://bustimes.org/services/3c-strathaven-stonehouse?calendar=6801184 Given that Strathaven had one bus a day to Glasgow for ages, and then apparently even that couldn't be viable, it's remarkable evidence of the market failure that is the UK bus market.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks, that didn't show up on the map I was looking at.

It's not that obvious on an OS map but you can see it on Google.

 

[RT4038]

1. Wigtown
2. Lochskerrow
3. Marchmont
4. Sunilaws
5. Killin
6. Ballachulish
7. St Combs
8. Cullen
9. Banff
10. Renfrew (Fulbar St.)

 

[newguy]

I have a soft spot for Strathaven - such a lovely place. But even then it's hard to argue that it's realistic for it to see a train
The bus is doing amazingly; now up to half hourly morning peaks, hourly most of the day, and an evening service starting to appear! https://bustimes.org/services/3c-strathaven-stonehouse?calendar=6801184 Given that Strathaven had one bus a day to Glasgow for ages, and then apparently even that couldn't be viable, it's remarkable evidence of the market failure that is the UK bus market.

That's an excellent result. Last time I looked I think the bus might have been a 2 hour service, so delighted to see the service intervals increase. I hope the service is viable. I had previously been told that they were relaying on charity funding but given the extra services, maybe the service is now profitable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2025 ==

Very true. My wife and I travelled on the community bus for a day out from Glasgow the Summer before last. It was very lightly-loaded as far as Stonehouse - just us and one other woman - but once off the motorway it fulfills the role of a local service and quite a few people got on and off between Stonehouse and Strathaven, ending-up with about 12 getting off at the terminus. However, we were travelling contra-peak and the driver told us that it's pretty busy going into Glasgow in the morning and returning in the evening. I wonder how many Strathaven commuters drive into either East Kilbride or Hamilton to take the train into Glasgow?

My friend in Strathaven used to drive to Hamilton West as that was closer than the EK stations. His biggest issue was trying to get home after a night out. Hopefully the bus is a better alterative for him!

 

[D6130]

I have a soft spot for Strathaven - such a lovely place. But even then it's hard to argue that it's realistic for it to see a train
The bus is doing amazingly; now up to half hourly morning peaks, hourly most of the day, and an evening service starting to appear! https://bustimes.org/services/3c-strathaven-stonehouse?calendar=6801184 Given that Strathaven had one bus a day to Glasgow for ages, and then apparently even that couldn't be viable, it's remarkable evidence of the market failure that is the UK bus market.

I may be mistaken....but I think that one bus a day went all the way round the houses through every village and clachan between Strathaven and Hamilton, before persuing a fairly leisurely suburban course into Glasgow city centre. There were several more buses between Strathaven and Hamilton Interchange giving train connections from Hamilton Central into the city. The Community Transport coach is non-stop between Glasgow and Stonehouse via the M8 and M74 motorways....giving a creditable - and usually achievable - journey time of 45 minutes. Incidentally, Strathaven may not have much chance of regaining a main line rail service anytime soon....but there's an excellent miniature railway in the park!

That's an excellent result. Last time I looked I think the bus might have been a 2 hour service, so delighted to see the service intervals increase. I hope the service is viable. I had previously been told that they were relaying on charity funding but given the extra services, maybe the service is now profitable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2025 ==


My friend in Strathaven used to drive to Hamilton West as that was closer than the EK stations. His biggest issue was trying to get home after a night out. Hopefully the bus is a better alterative for him!

There's always the Weavers' if he doesn't want to stray too far from home!

1. Wigtown
2. Lochskerrow
3. Marchmont
4. Sunilaws
5. Killin
6. Ballachulish
7. St Combs
8. Cullen
9. Banff
10. Renfrew (Fulbar St.)

 

[AlastairFraser]

Alloa - Dunfermline rail link:
1. Kincardine
2. Clackmannan
3. Dunfermline West / South
Lines north of Aberdeen:
4. Ellon
5. Peterhead
6. Fraserburgh
Borders Line:
7. Melrose
8. St Boswells
9. Hawick
Additionally:
10. Stranraer Town/Central

Pretty decent suggestions, although Ellon should definitely be reopened, Newmachar is worth a shout for commuting/leisure trips into Aberdeen (especially with some more houses between Kingseat/Newmachar proper), and reopening just the Peterhead branch would be a better use of funds (open a station at Mintlaw with a decent sized car park - it's a 17 min drive away from Fraserburgh and the existing decent selection of bus services from Fraserburgh only take a maximum of 30 mins).

 

[daodao]

Pretty decent suggestions, although Ellon should definitely be reopened, Newmachar is worth a shout for commuting/leisure trips into Aberdeen (especially with some more houses between Kingseat/Newmachar proper), and reopening just the Peterhead branch would be a better use of funds (open a station at Mintlaw with a decent sized car park - it's a 17 min drive away from Fraserburgh and the existing decent selection of bus services from Fraserburgh only take a maximum of 30 mins).

Is there any realistic prospect of re-opening railway lines in the sparsely populated Buchan area, which would be extremely expensive to achieve?

Station re-openings should be focussed on substantial settlements within 15 miles of major cities, with priority given to those on existing (or mothballed) lines. In the Aberdeen area, re-opening Cove and Newtonhill would be much better value for money.

 

[lachlan]

Is there any realistic prospect of re-opening railway lines in the sparsely populated Buchan area, which would be extremely expensive to achieve?

Station re-openings should be focussed on substantial settlements within 15 miles of major cities, with priority given to those on existing (or mothballed) lines. In the Aberdeen area, re-opening Cove and Newtonhill would be much better value for money.

The Campaign for North East Rail have been, well, campaigning for the reinstatement of those lines. The distance is significant but Fraserburgh and Peterhead are both big towns that have poor road links and could be ripe for regeneration. It would make most sense to connect Ellon first and go from there.

That being said I agree with focusing on urban stations first - these should be low-hanging fruit and I don't know why it has taken so long. There has been some interest, consultations etc on reopening Newtonhill but I haven't heard anything about Cove. I've never seen any interest from Aberdeen City Council about reopening stations in the city.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jan 2025 ==

Another suggestion is to improve the local services around Dundee. We've shown with Moniefieth and Portlethen that increasing a sparse service to a regular one can bring a big increase in usage.

Perhaps a repositioned Golf Street or even just a regular local service for all stations 7 days per week would be a big improvement.

 

[daodao]

Another suggestion is to improve the local services around Dundee. We've shown with Moniefieth and Portlethen that increasing a sparse service to a regular one can bring a big increase in usage.

Perhaps a repositioned Golf Street or even just a regular local service for all stations 7 days per week would be a big improvement.

I agree. IMO, a regular half-hourly local service from St. Andrews to Arbroath would be a good idea, although I don't know how easy it would be to re-open the line from St. Andrews to Leuchars Junction.

 

[waverley47]

I agree. IMO, a regular half-hourly local service from St. Andrews to Arbroath would be a good idea, although I don't know how easy it would be to re-open the line from St. Andrews to Leuchars Junction.

Technically possible without too much fuss, but it's a case of why on earth would you. It's just one of those schemes that everything possible conspires to make it as difficult as possible to get a positive business case.

Reopening railway lines are very expensive, and this one would be a lot of capital to serve a relatively small number of people.


In order to get the best use out of the line, you'd really need to connect it into Edinburgh without changing, to give you access to the airport and points south. But that means you have to run trains down through Fife to serve the line. And suddenly it you're looking at an ongoing cost of 3/4 extra units and train crew to serve five miles of track and a grand total of let's say 220k journeys a year?

Or you could built a triangle at Leuchars and have all trains serving St Andrews reverse back out and continue to Dundee, or vice versa, but then you're looking at services between Edinburgh and Dundee taking an extra 30 minutes in each direction, and have to think about timetabling over a presumably single track section, or provide passing opportunities.

Or you could spend a couple of million making an improved interchange at Leuchars station, and pay Stagecoach to always have a bus ready to meet the trains.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Is there any realistic prospect of re-opening railway lines in the sparsely populated Buchan area, which would be extremely expensive to achieve?

Station re-openings should be focussed on substantial settlements within 15 miles of major cities, with priority given to those on existing (or mothballed) lines. In the Aberdeen area, re-opening Cove and Newtonhill would be much better value for money.

There is a significant prospect of lines in the Buchan area reopening.
A recent feasibility study was completed to show that reopening a line could cut serious accidents down on the A90 by up to 75 percent (costly for the region due to losses of productivity and accident investigation/cleanup costs) and connect a significant new labour force to the large job market in Aberdeen.Buchan Sustainable Transport Study

I agree that Cove Bay station deserves reopening, as the population within easy reach of the station is fast approaching 10k, and there is easy access to a number of large settlements.
Whereas, with Newtonhill, even if you add Chapleton of Elsick as a nearby settlement within catchment, you reach max 4k population within 2 miles (excluding Portlethen as that already has a station).
Portlethen station is only approx. an 8 min drive from all of the settlements within the Newtonhill station catchment area, or approx. 15 mins from Newtonhill itself on the bus. It seems better to invest money in building a large car park at Portlethen and improve bus links from the settlements that Newtonhill would serve.

 

[McRhu]

Callander
Lesmahagow, Blackwood/Kirkmuirhill, Stonehouse
Symington
Law
Almondbank, Methven, Crieff

 

[lachlan]

There is a significant prospect of lines in the Buchan area reopening.
A recent feasibility study was completed to show that reopening a line could cut serious accidents down on the A90 by up to 75 percent (costly for the region due to losses of productivity and accident investigation/cleanup costs) and connect a significant new labour force to the large job market in Aberdeen.Buchan Sustainable Transport Study

I agree that Cove Bay station deserves reopening, as the population within easy reach of the station is fast approaching 10k, and there is easy access to a number of large settlements.
Whereas, with Newtonhill, even if you add Chapleton of Elsick as a nearby settlement within catchment, you reach max 4k population within 2 miles (excluding Portlethen as that already has a station).
Portlethen station is only approx. an 8 min drive from all of the settlements within the Newtonhill station catchment area, or approx. 15 mins from Newtonhill itself on the bus. It seems better to invest money in building a large car park at Portlethen and improve bus links from the settlements that Newtonhill would serve.

To be fair Laurencekirk is a similar size if not smaller and saw its station reopened recently

 

[AlastairFraser]

To be fair Laurencekirk is a similar size if not smaller and saw its station reopened recently

It's a decent point, but Laurencekirk is a lot further from any other potential rail head.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Purely fantasy play but.

I'd open.

Causewayhead, Tullibody Parkway, Alloa, Sauchie, Tillicoultry, Dollar, Kinross, Milnathort (M90 Parkway), and St Andrews.

Kinross being both on the East-West Glasgow to St Andrews line and M90 Parkway to Edinburgh line.

Then to make it 10.

Auchterarder & Crieff.

 

[Tayway]

There seems to be a few clusters of possible re-openings, and I would suggest that all in each group be progressed at a similar pace to maximise the benefits from potential frequency enhancements etc.

• Aberdeen cluster (Newtonhill, Cove, Kittybrewster, Bucksburn)
• West Edinburgh cluster (Winchburgh, Newbridge)
• Forth Valley cluster (Grangemouth, Cambus, Bannockburn, Bonnybridge, Abronhill)
• Fife Circle cluster (Dysart, Halbeath)
• Tay Valley cluster (Bridge of Earn, Newburgh)
• Kilmarnock to Dumfries cluster (Hurlford, Mauchline, Cumnock, Thornhill)

The best of the rest would probably include Elderslie, Portobello, Halkirk, Dundee West and Ayr South (although here you start needing closures and electrification as mentioned above).

I don't think anyone's mentioned Stanley on the Highland main line so that would by my wildcard.

I quite like the idea of a Livingston Parkway, with two platforms immediately to the east of Midcalder Junction. It would act as a sort of Motherwell equivalent for West Lothian and surrounds to allow direct access to WCML services without needing to go into Edinburgh.

Not a new station, but sticking an extra set of platforms at Cathcart to allow access from the Newton direction would be helpful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jan 2025 ==

Or you could built a triangle at Leuchars and have all trains serving St Andrews reverse back out and continue to Dundee, or vice versa, but then you're looking at services between Edinburgh and Dundee taking an extra 30 minutes in each direction, and have to think about timetabling over a presumably single track section, or provide passing opportunities.

Or you could spend a couple of million making an improved interchange at Leuchars station, and pay Stagecoach to always have a bus ready to meet the trains.

Would splitting/joining at either Cupar (if the triangle junction was built) or Leuchars (if not) work?

 

[newguy]

The other station I’ve been thinking of is uplawmoor. However it might not have a big enough population.

 

[Transilien]

he other station I’ve been thinking of is uplawmoor. However it might not have a big enough population.

I would say it's too small, however it is a good location for new housing in my opinion.

 

[waverley47]

There seems to be a few clusters of possible re-openings, and I would suggest that all in each group be progressed at a similar pace to maximise the benefits from potential frequency enhancements etc.

• Aberdeen cluster (Newtonhill, Cove, Kittybrewster, Bucksburn)
• West Edinburgh cluster (Winchburgh, Newbridge)

Newbridge would be basically be a small town, on the peripheral of a large city, not big enough for a station, if it weren't for the M8, M89 and M90.

I'm not sure you could ever make it work, because pretty much anyone who would park and ride at Newbridge would either be served better by parking and riding at Uphall, Halbeath or Ferrytoll, or at Ingliston for the tram, or just getting a town from their local station in the first place.

Building it would likely actively encourage more people to drive for longer to get to Newbridge by car, and then take the train for a shorter journey. Its a really hard one to justify.

• Forth Valley cluster (Grangemouth, Cambus, Bannockburn, Bonnybridge, Abronhill)

Grangemouth is impractical, and never going to happen for many reasons above.

Abronhill, Bonnybridge and Bannockburn are because this area of the Forth Valley was hit hard by a combination of high numbers of closures in the 60s, and artificially high population growth in new towns in the 70s and 80s, often in similar places to the closures a decade and a half earlier. See also Aberdeen, and the government's failure to predict the oil boom.

• Fife Circle cluster (Dysart, Halbeath)
• Tay Valley cluster (Bridge of Earn, Newburgh)
• Kilmarnock to Dumfries cluster (Hurlford, Mauchline, Cumnock, Thornhill)

Realistically, any more stations need to wait for electrification and at least 1tph along this stretch, if only to make the sums work

I quite like the idea of a Livingston Parkway, with two platforms immediately to the east of Midcalder Junction. It would act as a sort of Motherwell equivalent for West Lothian and surrounds to allow direct access to WCML services without needing to go into Edinburgh.

Such a Livingston Parkway station would fail very quickly when you realise it would be very close indeed to Kirknewton, and as far as connections to the WCML, it would probably only be served by the 1tph stopping service on the Shotts line, and 4tpd? in each direction Carstairs ScotRail services.

Would splitting/joining at either Cupar (if the triangle junction was built) or Leuchars (if not) work?

Unfortunately, if it's not going to justify 1tph of its own dedicated services, it's very very unlikely to justify 1tph of splitting and joining, which is just going to be more complicated, would need additional units, more drivers, and would ultimately prove to be more expensive.

 

[Carntyne]

I don't think I would open or reopen any at the moment. I think we've built the main big wins already.

My focus would be on maintaining and upgrading existing stations, particularly focusing on the North and South Electrics in Glasgow, to boost passenger numbers and generate more income.

 

[The exile]

Developing the Inverurie-Aberdeen-Stonehaven local service would be a worthwhile use of resources, in contrast to opening rural stations distant from large cities on lines that only have a 1tp2h service at best.

Although if that rural line is single track and the lie of the land favourable you need a lot fewer bucks for your bang!

 

[AlastairFraser]

I don't think I would open or reopen any at the moment. I think we've built the main big wins already.

My focus would be on maintaining and upgrading existing stations, particularly focusing on the North and South Electrics in Glasgow, to boost passenger numbers and generate more income.

What could you realistically do to upgrade further? Ticket gates at every station?

 

[Transilien]

What could you realistically do to upgrade further? Ticket gates at every station?

The service frequencies are awful on much of the Cathcart Circle and branches for an inner suburban railway. Also ticketing could be improved in Strathclyde by having integrated tap in and tap out ticketing for subway/train/bus with the bramble card as it already in use on the subway.

 

[Tayway]

Such a Livingston Parkway station would fail very quickly when you realise it would be very close indeed to Kirknewton, and as far as connections to the WCML, it would probably only be served by the 1tph stopping service on the Shotts line, and 4tpd? in each direction Carstairs ScotRail services.

I would advocate stopping Manchester and Birmingham services there, and both Shotts services each hour. Kirknewton would likely need to be shut however.

 

[waverley47]

I would advocate stopping Manchester and Birmingham services there, and both Shotts services each hour. Kirknewton would likely need to be shut however.

You'd advocate stopping 1p2h of express trains to both Manchester and Euston via Birmingham, on top of 2tph ScotRail, in a field 20 minutes from Haymarket? I admire your optimism.