Royston Vasey
Established Member
They'll never appreciate your vision
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If you could say 5 words to Dr. Beeching today, what would they be?
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GNERman
Established Member
ah well...
Royston Vasey
Established Member
I say it a little tongue in cheek, as the whole operation he led was both botched and biased... but imagine the burden of subsidy these days to keep every hamlet connected by a rail line, it's bad enough having to support and subsidise the major flows as it is!
GNERman
Established Member
or even-
how do you expect me to get home now?!
how do you expect me to get home now?!
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
That's not 5 words GNERMan...
Geezertronic
Established Member
Why drag up old threads?
That's 5 words isn't it?
That's 5 words isn't it?
FlyingScot
Member
Why do you hate stations?
37401
Established Member
Some people can not count
FlyingScot
Member
Here's a better one.
" Oh my god a zombie!!!!!!"
Cos he's dead.
" Oh my god a zombie!!!!!!"
Cos he's dead.
90019
Established Member
He's fallen in the water!
(Hopefully at least one person will get the reference
)
(Hopefully at least one person will get the reference
)
GNERman
Established Member
And all of yours are five words, hmm?
"Hello how are you, would you care for a slice of poison cake?"
"How about some drugged orange juice?"
"how was your day I heard my hitmen tried to get you, I hope you are not ok"
"Do you like grids?, look at my sig pic on http://railforums.co.uk "
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
All of mine are 5.
GNERman
Established Member
i wasn't doubting that...
FlyingScot
Member
Stop talking in five words!
ladydsm
Member
Way ahead of your time
Beeching was only part of the process. If we go back in history, in 1923 most British railways were amalgamated into 4 companies. In 1939 we went to war with Germany and the railways bore the brunt of transport - there was virtually nothing else - such as troop movements and evacuation of children as well as being shot up by German planes.
Im 1948 the railways were nationalised, and steam locomotives became outmoded, difficulty in recruiting men to work in dirty conditions to clean etc, which is how the railway worked. Everyone started at the bottom. In 1955 the modernisation plan was unveiled, with the aim of a new dieselised modern railway and the Tresuary beacame concerned at whether the country could afford the cost. So the railways asked to be released from their obligation to run services and be commercially orientated in the 1962 Transport Act. They then employed Beeching to carry out a review of the entire network to declare whether a station or line was profitable or not. Anything deemed unprofitable was earmarked for closure such as the entire former LSWR system west of Salisbury. This was the swinging sixties and the era of the car, it was believed everyone would have the freedom of the open motorway and slow dirty smelly steam trains were dinosaurs soon to become extinct
Im 1948 the railways were nationalised, and steam locomotives became outmoded, difficulty in recruiting men to work in dirty conditions to clean etc, which is how the railway worked. Everyone started at the bottom. In 1955 the modernisation plan was unveiled, with the aim of a new dieselised modern railway and the Tresuary beacame concerned at whether the country could afford the cost. So the railways asked to be released from their obligation to run services and be commercially orientated in the 1962 Transport Act. They then employed Beeching to carry out a review of the entire network to declare whether a station or line was profitable or not. Anything deemed unprofitable was earmarked for closure such as the entire former LSWR system west of Salisbury. This was the swinging sixties and the era of the car, it was believed everyone would have the freedom of the open motorway and slow dirty smelly steam trains were dinosaurs soon to become extinct
Much of what was thought to be desirable for the future in the 1950's and 1960's has been found to be wrong. Look at 1960's tower blocks! Still, there's no doubt that some of the railway system was unnecessary and had to be pruned - lines had been closing for various reasons for decades. As an example, look at the line between Ashburton and Totnes. Most local people travelled to Newton Abbot for leisure, work, shopping etc and the direct bus ttok 38 minutes as opposed to a much longer journey by train. What was unnecessary was the scale of the closures, and the dubious accounting system that was used.
Ivo
Established Member
Go jump off a cliff.
Okay, maybe not.
Okay, maybe not.
ladydsm
Member
Bend over you naughty boy
37401
Established Member
Death
Established Member
Where's me bloody CIG gone? :razz:
Some lines were built not for a direct financial return but to address social needs such as the ND&CJLR Torrington - Halwill Devon, opened 1925 closed 1965 by Beeching Fort William - Mallaig still open or several Irish branches, Killybegs, Burtonport & Cardonagh all closed.
the big issue was the proposed costs of bringing modern technology to such underutilised lines. The ND&CJLR was a true light railway, most crossings were ungated and it made news for the wrong reason when a bus collided with a train in 1951. The train had a crew of 3 and one passenger, the bus a crew of 2 and no passengers.
However if such lines had survived, maybe some would be with us today as the Newport - Ryde was uneconomic in the 60's as the bus took a more direct route, but with population growth would probably be viable today.
Remember the GWR had a nasty habit of taking over rival lines and redirecting expresses over its own lines such as the ACE or the Pines Express S&D. When the last S&D engine entered the sheds at Bath someone chalked "Gooch must go" on the smokebox.
Incidently the S&D was the Swift and delightful to its supporters, the Slow and dirty to its detractors and finally the Sabotaged and Defeated
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
ps aware that the ACE was withdrawn but WR proclaimed new accelerated diesel expresses to Plymouth notably the Golden Hind. The ACE split up providing a through service to most of the LSWR network, but shorn of through traffic the writing was on the wall for its branches
There was still agreat deal of pettiness around after nationlisation. The Wr managed to close most fo the former SR lines, for example, and in my area all of the Swansea stations were closed except for the former GWR one!
I expect there are quite a lot of lines that would have been sustainable today given demographic changes, residential development and the like. Many lines in South Wales were built to allow the transport of coal, passenger services were always of secondary importance. My closest abandoned railway is the one that served Cynheidre Colliery until its closure in 1989. There was no way that passenger services would have ever been profitable, and they succumbed to competition decades ago. There would stll be insufficient traffic to merit reopening this line - it was one of those that had served its purpose!
would add that in fact the railways were virtually nationalised during the war and most of their profits went to the war effort.
One has to question the wisdom behind the BR standard classes, they may be good engines but were built over a decade ending in 1962 and the last steam ran 1968, to be replaced by diesels of varied reliability. In fact 2 early diesels ended up in the Barry scrap queue, one even in BR Blue.
Consider lines which have survived such as St Ives Cornwall earmarked for closure and began a new era in 1978 when a park and ride scheme began
One has to question the wisdom behind the BR standard classes, they may be good engines but were built over a decade ending in 1962 and the last steam ran 1968, to be replaced by diesels of varied reliability. In fact 2 early diesels ended up in the Barry scrap queue, one even in BR Blue.
Consider lines which have survived such as St Ives Cornwall earmarked for closure and began a new era in 1978 when a park and ride scheme began
37401
Established Member
and talking of pipe men, while it was a tory government that employed Beeching, when the closures were being put into effect, the government was now labour under Harold Wilson who got some stick for putting up tax on fags but not pipe tobacco and apparently did nothing to reverse the closure programme
Or indeed a more recent prime minister who as chancellor had a tendancy to put up tax on beer but not whisky
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