I'm confused as to where all the trains fit at night...

TT-ONR-NRN

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Dear moderators, we don't have a depot subforum so I put it here... please feel free to move if there is a better place

Where do trains go at night?

It sounds obvious - the depot, but I read that Longsight can take a maximum of fifteen 390s overnight. Now I know that there is a depot in Wembley and Glasgow, etc. But fifteen? It is the main depot for the Pendolinos and there are fifty six? So... where do all the other ones go?

If a depot as large as Longsight can only take fifteen Pendolinos, where are all the Eurostars kept overnight? Can Temple Mills take all seventeen 374s and the 373s at the same time? And Great Western Railway has over a hundred IETs split between North Pole, Maliphant, Stoke Gifford and I think some stay at Laira. If they can only take fifteen too, that accounts for only sixty or seventy IETs? LNER has all of the Azumas and the 225s as well over Bounds Green, Doncaster, Neville Hill and Craigentinny?

Unless of course, it means fifteen IN the actual shed, and more can sit on the sidings outside the depot? But if not... where do they all go?? Unless Longsight is just... small? Although Craigentinny can handle 176 vehicles... and that's only what, nineteen Azumas?

I'm confused. How many trains actually sit at the depot (inside and outside of it), and how many trains can stay overnight at places like North Pole and Bounds Green?

Please can someone clarify, because I'm surprised at how much less depots can take compared to what I thought. I don't mean how many can they do maintenance on, just... how many can stay there overnight? There doesn't seem to be enough room for them all if they can only take 15-20 trains...

Thanks
 
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swt_passenger

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There’s a surprising amount of overnight stabling in station platforms, not every train needs to visit a “maintenance depot” every day. Even through stations such as Southampton Central use two through platforms to stable trains overnight. Weymouth and Portsmouth Harbour are pretty much full of trains overnight. The SWR Desiro fleet is 162 units, they are all “based” at Northam, which only has indoor maintenance roads for about 10 units. So the vast majority are not stabling at the main depot, but at other depots, stabling sidings, and stations.
 

bengley

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Dear moderators, we don't have a depot subforum so I put it here... please feel free to move if there is a better place

Where do trains go at night?

It sounds obvious - the depot, but I read that Longsight can take a maximum of fifteen 390s overnight. Now I know that there is a depot in Wembley and Glasgow, etc. But fifteen? It is the main depot for the Pendolinos and there are fifty six? So... where do all the other ones go?

If a depot as large as Longsight can only take fifteen Pendolinos, where are all the Eurostars kept overnight? Can Temple Mills take all seventeen 374s and the 373s at the same time? And Great Western Railway has over a hundred IETs split between North Pole, Maliphant, Stoke Gifford and I think some stay at Laira. If they can only take fifteen too, that accounts for only sixty or seventy IETs? LNER has all of the Azumas and the 225s as well over Bounds Green, Doncaster, Neville Hill and Craigentinny?

Unless of course, it means fifteen IN the actual shed, and more can sit on the sidings outside the depot? But if not... where do they all go?? Unless Longsight is just... small? Although Craigentinny can handle 176 vehicles... and that's only what, nineteen Azumas?

I'm confused. How many trains actually sit at the depot (inside and outside of it), and how many trains can stay overnight at places like North Pole and Bounds Green?

Please can someone clarify, because I'm surprised at how much less depots can take compared to what I thought. I don't mean how many can they do maintenance on, just... how many can stay there overnight? There doesn't seem to be enough room for them all if they can only take 15-20 trains...

Thanks
Pendos are also stabled at Edge Hill
 

sw1ller

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Oxley looks like it can take a fair few too (390’s). Chester station is full overnight as well as some spill over in the middle yard.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Presumably units at remote coastal terminii are stabled there overnight to form the first service of the morning, e.g. Pwllheli and Mallaig.
 

Watershed

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Diesel trains tend to have to be fuelled every second or third night, and water and CET tanks don't last forever. But, based on typical fleet availability figures of 85-90%, you can see that only a small proportion of a fleet actually has to go "home" for maintenance every night.

For Pendolinos, there are at least four depots other than Longsight they might stay overnight - Oxley, Edge Hill, Polmadie and Wembley. Many fleets also see some stabling at stations overnight, particularly for first and last services.

Remember that Longsight is also home to several other fleets apart from the Pendolinos.
 

Domh245

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Specifically for Avanti - The latest set of diagrams I can find show that the pendolinos come from:

Edge hill (5)
Polmadie (9)
Wembley (13)
Longsight (12)
Oxley (10)
Preston (1)

For 50 in service, with 1 spare at each of Wembley & Oxley, 3 at Longsight, and 1 for paint/exam at Widnes to give you the 56
 

The Planner

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As @swt_passenger has stated, there is a big reliance on out stabling in platforms. Causes headaches at those locations during maintenance or disruptive access and you have to find somewhere else to put the units!
 

Mag_seven

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As @swt_passenger has stated, there is a big reliance on out stabling in platforms. Causes headaches at those locations during maintenance or disruptive access and you have to find somewhere else to put the units!

Tell me about it - In a previous existence I had to manage platform surveys and lost count of the number of times the surveyors lost a shift because there was a unit stabled in the platform concerned (even when we were assured there wouldn't be!)
 
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jfollows

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Virgin then, and Avanti (until the most recent timetable change, anyway), introduced a new service 07:10 Crewe to Manchester, and one reason for the service was that it got rid of a Pendolino set from Longsight (initially) or Edge Hill (sometimes, more recently) which otherwise had to hang around - it'd form just about the last up service to London which wasn't formed from an inbound service from London. Sometimes this new service didn't run, but when I wanted to catch it I checked on the running of the ECS first of all, something I couldn't have done many years ago. I think it generally helped to get one more set off the shed in the morning rather than leaving it hanging around somewhere.
 

Crossover

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As others have said, lots of outstabling. Northern stable a number of units in Leeds overnight and quite a few go on the through roads at Sheffield, between the platforms, as well as in the "siding" there.

LNER, at least sometimes, outstable in the platforms at York.

TPE used to outstable in Scarborough (possibly no more at the moment as I think the first two services are formed with Nova 3 stock off the new TMD) and I am fairly sure they outstable a unit or two at Cleethorpes, too

To name a few I can think of
 

waverley47

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It's important to differentiate between stabling and depots. ScotRail has about eight official depots around the network, and on any given night, you'll find a lot of stuff holes up at Haymarket ect.

But there's a lot of sidings lying around where you can dump stuff overnight. EMUs don't require fueling, and as long as a siding has watering/cleaning facilities, it can basically be dumped anywhere. Millerhill for example soaks up a lot of units, but nothing can be done there beyond that; units have to cycle round to Craigentinny for proper work. On something like LNER, a lot sits in siding throughout the day as well, such as at Camden.

DMUs are more difficult, but ta lot of these sit overnight at whatever rural station they're sent to. Thurso, Mallaig and Dumfries all hold a couple of 156s overnight, just so they they're easy to get the next morning. It's cheaper than sending them back to Cockerhill, and allows for more early morning trips.
 

Horizon22

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Main TOCs don't fit their trains - Southeastern for example has a chronic stabling shortage with many trains stabled in terminals and platforms. Obviously some TOCs have better %s of trains in depots at night.

Each depot will have a capacity limit and diagram cycling will ensure that trains do end up at maintenance depots as and when required.
 

Islineclear3_1

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Like to see some pictures of stations full of trains, could one take them early in summer?

Plenty on Flickr and other sites on the internet to be going along with for now. One would hope restrictions would have lifted by the summer and leisure travel resumes...

Once upon a time, there used to be endless stabling points/sidings around the network but many fell out of use, with service cuts etc. and they were ripped up and sold for development such as housing. As others have said, where there are not berthing facilities, trains are stabled at stations. They are less likely to be vandalised there too
 

Horizon22

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Dear moderators, we don't have a depot subforum so I put it here... please feel free to move if there is a better place

And Great Western Railway has over a hundred IETs split between North Pole, Maliphant, Stoke Gifford and I think some stay at Laira. If they can only take fifteen too, that accounts for only sixty or seventy IETs? LNER has all of the Azumas and the 225s as well over Bounds Green, Doncaster, Neville Hill and Craigentinny?

Thanks

GWR also keep IET sets at Penzance depot and sidings at Oxford, Worcester, and Hereford.
 

JonathanH

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GWR also keep IET sets at Penzance depot and sidings at Oxford, Worcester, and Hereford.
...and Exeter New Yard, although seemingly not in the reduced timetable other than on Saturday night / Sunday morning.
 

Horizon22

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Like to see some pictures of stations full of trains, could one take them early in summer?

If you can get into a station overnight you might be able to if its 24/7, but otherwise they're locked up.
 

A Challenge

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If you can get into a station overnight you might be able to if its 24/7, but otherwise they're locked up.
Sheffield has stuff in its middle sidings more often than not when I'm there, and I've never been there at particularly antisocial times of day, so that might be a good place, particularly at the weekend.
 

Barnsley

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Like to see some pictures of stations full of trains, could one take them early in summer?
You can at Hull if you arrive when the station opens at 04:45, all 6 platforms are stacked up with units, and the rest are in the sidings by Platform 2, roughly around 20 units overnight
 

Tracked

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Back until just before Lockdown 1.0 I used to get the 05:59 to STP regularly, Northern usage was:

Platform 2: formed the 06:03 to Lincoln via Sheffield, usually moved to Plat 3/4 and ran non-stop to Sheffield
Platform 5: 06:06 All Stops to Sheffield
Platform 6: Leeds (DMU, think this usually came from Neville Hill in the morning)
Platform 7: Scunthorpe
Between 6/7: Electric for Leeds
Platform 0: ECS move
Off Platform 8: 331/195's (some of these would've been for training).

I have a photo of Sheffield somewhere from a couple of years ago when the Northern Strikes were on, can't find it though, it was just a line of Pacer's between platforms 1 and 2 anyway.
 

vlad

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I remember getting the last train out of Sutton Coldfield some years ago. When we got to Birmingham New Street some of the platforms were full of 150s.

I don't know whether the units stayed there all night or whether it was just the muster point.
 

the sniper

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I remember getting the last train out of Sutton Coldfield some years ago. When we got to Birmingham New Street some of the platforms were full of 150s.

I don't know whether the units stayed there all night or whether it was just the muster point.

New Street normally has/had a few platforms accommodating three 323s each overnight, plus a few 350s, IIRC.
 

Tomnick

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Nottingham's a good example - the depot (Eastcroft) has very little capacity for stabling so the majority of units (usually in excess of 40 vehicles) spend the night in the station platforms after being fuelled and serviced, leaving just one or two through platforms available for freight, last/first London trains and possession requirements. Getting everything in the right order for the first wave of departures in the morning is a work of art, with further rakes set up in what little stabling capacity there is in the sidings ready to be brought up in the morning to form subsequent departures.
 

cactustwirly

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Nottingham's a good example - the depot (Eastcroft) has very little capacity for stabling so the majority of units (usually in excess of 40 vehicles) spend the night in the station platforms after being fuelled and serviced, leaving just one or two through platforms available for freight, last/first London trains and possession requirements. Getting everything in the right order for the first wave of departures in the morning is a work of art, with further rakes set up in what little stabling capacity there is in the sidings ready to be brought up in the morning to form subsequent departures.

I thought the majority of the regional fleet was stabled at Etches Park, where they are maintained?
 

Tomnick

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I thought the majority of the regional fleet was stabled at Etches Park, where they are maintained?
No, only a handful of 15x units stable at Derby. A lot of maintenance is done at Nottingham, just not the heavier stuff.
 

geoffk

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Presumably units at remote coastal terminii are stabled there overnight to form the first service of the morning, e.g. Pwllheli and Mallaig.
Cleethorpes (TPE) and Pwllheli (TfW) but I think not Aberystwyth as everything goes back to Machynlleth. One unit at Rochdale in the bay platform.
 

Peter0124

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2 Pendolinos now stable in Birmingham New Street overnight, according to the new timetable (the 22:30 and 23:30 only run to New Street unless Friday). Not sure if it continues like that next week though.
 

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