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Image Manipulation.

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mumrar

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Right, I'm now in a simmer down, and will try not to get over excited.

I'm not chuffed at being singled out as trying to force my opinion across, because that's what most people are doing. But the fact is that when you look through your viewfinder, you aren't taking the picture 'you see' because cameras are a way off the performance of our eyes. Imagine if every overcast day you went out, everything you looked at was surrounded by a searing white over-exposed sky? Now that would be a headache. I am trying to use techniques to make the finished image closer to what my eye saw. If you look back to the earlier unprocessed version of my Class 20 shot, my eye saw it as nothing like that at all, the finished image is closer to it.

I agree that object removal should not be allowed in the competition, but it's not fair to blame other people taking their time over a shot for your own unprocessed image not doing well. If that was the case we'd have to run a seperate competition for compact and SLR shots surely. It isn't really fair to try to exclude people just because of the effort or seriousness they put in to the photography.

Like Swiss Toni, I too have found myself trying to defend a winning image, in which I was criticised for following the basic principles behind framing and aesthetics of a railway photo. Basically, it was almost like 'Look, someone who's took an accepted style of photo has won again'. What else should I do? Creativity is the key to our hobby and art form, but without people trying different things and embracing new methods, it would stagnate in to a battle of the most expensive and best cameras. I like the fact that with the current format anyone can win POTW and long may it continue.

I'm disappointed Techniquest with your blanket exclusion of all steam that is non-GWR. It's like voting for purely DB Schenker or Virgin West Coast images only, it appears to be only because of who built it and ran it, a bit narrow minded. It seems you also intimate that people who have made a success out of photography should not be permitted to enter as they normally win. Imagine that, Gary Kasparov excluded from chess competitions after getting good. David Beckham no longer allowed at the World Cup because of his talents (that are on the wane).

I shall finish as I feel, best of luck to everyone with the competitions as always, but I shall add that I will not dumb down my interpretation of the final image because of others opinions of it. As has been stated previously, if you don't like it don't vote for it.

I hope noone feels I have been directly aiming for them with this, except where stated but I'm defending my choices as we all do in daily life over all sorts of matters. I feel like I'm being called a cheat (tell me if I'm wrong)
 
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90019

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David Beckham no longer allowed at the World Cup because of his talents (that are on the wane).

If only! :lol:


Seriously though, I just feel that people who prefer not to edit their photos just weren't being given a chance in the competition because of the huge amount of editing others did to their photos.
 

mumrar

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Not long to wait, I don't think he'll make the World Cup Squad.

This debate will go on, it's chalk and cheese really. Everybody has to make choices, where they go, what they photograph and from what angle. And that's before people do or don't edit them.
 

eezypeazy

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I do hope the irony of the banner advertisement that appeared at the top of the page earlier tonight hasn't been lost on anyone:

bannerad.jpg


!!!!!!

Regards

eezypeazy
 

Techniquest

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I'm disappointed Techniquest with your blanket exclusion of all steam that is non-GWR. It's like voting for purely DB Schenker or Virgin West Coast images only, it appears to be only because of who built it and ran it, a bit narrow minded. It seems you also intimate that people who have made a success out of photography should not be permitted to enter as they normally win. Imagine that, Gary Kasparov excluded from chess competitions after getting good. David Beckham no longer allowed at the World Cup because of his talents (that are on the wane).

Hi mumrar,

I don't intend to discuss image manipulation any further, however I do wish to reply to the above quotation. The text that follows should be considered my reply:

Whether anyone else agrees with my opinion on steam is up to them. I don't like any non-GWR steam and I will not vote for a photo of something I don't like. Not going to be an opinion others agree with, but I dislike LNWR, LNER, LMS and Southern steam so much I almost spat on a visiting A4 steam locomotive on the Severn Valley Railway a few years ago! The SVR is a GWR branchline in my eyes and should not have LNER rubbish on it! I may have many failings, but being passionate about something I do do very well. As I said before, I might be the only person who has the opinions that I do, but that suits me.

I like your similie there with DBS and VWC, it is kind of like that. However, permit me to rebutt with a similie of my own. I liken it to buying a sandwich you know you won't eat because of the ingredients, but you bought it because it looked good. Voting for a non-GWR steam photo in POTW is like that sandwich: It may look good, but it doesn't contain what you actually like. It may not be the best similie or comparison, but it's close enough for me without coming back tomorrow having thought about some others.

Narrow-minded? You know it. LNER and the other lot just doesn't cut it for me, if that makes me narrow minded then so be it. I kind of like being narrow-minded, no need to try and be a jack of all trades then, a chance to specialise in something you want to be a master of.

As for your other comments there, I didn't intend for my views to come across in the view you posted there. However, since you said it, I'll permit myself to use another similie. It's like a F1 racing car entering a race mainly with Mini drivers in mind. You know straight off the bat who'll win and who have no chance.

On a different note, banishing Beckham to the land of the has-beens would be an excellent idea. High time some fresh (and actual) talent came into the game. Anyone spoken for their intent to boot him out of the game yet? I'd volunteer to pilot the boat deporting him to Spain or the USA with no permission for him to ever return to these shores!<D

Evil, me? Noooooo...:lol:<D
 

minette

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I may have many failings, but being passionate about something I do do very well. As I said before, I might be the only person who has the opinions that I do, but that suits me.

Ah, passion....
Yes I remember passion. It's the thing you have for people till the kids come along, then you have it for things and opinions! As a mum of 3, I'm now doing photography cos it gives me a chance to get away from the kids for a while ... hopefully then I can go back to them a slightly :D saner person!
And, of course, if we don't share our passions with others (especially children), how will they, in their turn, learn to be passionate?
 

Techniquest

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My passion remains exclusively for trains I'm afraid, I have no time for anything else! Sad? Yes, but I love it.

However I do agree with you minette, the future generation will never learn how to be passionate unless we show them! I also agree you need a break from them, and going photting has got to be a good way of doing that! Which reminds me, I must get around to looking at your photos, I've yet to do so! :oops:
 

Techniquest

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I dunno, there's a few female enthusiasts all over the place. I met one at Middlesbrough on 8th November 2008 which was a refreshing change. ladysue and minette do seem in the minority here, but on another forum I frequent there's two female enthusiasts on it.

In short, they are somewhere! As the saying goes: A good woman is hard to find!
 

Phoenix

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I dunno, there's a few female enthusiasts all over the place. I met one at Middlesbrough on 8th November 2008 which was a refreshing change. ladysue and minette do seem in the minority here, but on another forum I frequent there's two female enthusiasts on it.

In short, they are somewhere! As the saying goes: A good woman is hard to find!

Yeah to be honest (and not being weird or a perv) I would actually like to meet a few female enthusiasts as I get on with women (as friends) more sometimes than I do with guys.
And before anyone asks I'm straight and taken :D
But seriously our world does seem abit too men orientated we need more women spotters.
 

ladysue

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After following this thread I thought it was about time I had a go at photoshopping a photo.I have only done the basics before that are allowed on POTW. I would appreciate any comments on my first try at this. It is on my new fotopic site at http://susan.picturebook.org.uk/p56702069.html. It is the photo file name 90775 photoshopped. Comments please on how obvious it is what I have done and how could I have done it better. I am learning a lot about taking pics on this site and really appreciate constructive criticism. Thanks
 

BrotherWolf

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Whether anyone else agrees with my opinion on steam is up to them. I don't like any non-GWR steam and I will not vote for a photo of something I don't like. Not going to be an opinion others agree with, but I dislike LNWR, LNER, LMS and Southern steam so much ......


Is there really NOTHING that's not GWR that you like? I believe that Stanier was ex-GWR and his express engines owe a lot to GWR heritage. At least you know your own mind. How do you stand on BR Steam?

To All: As for image manipulation, there seems to be a false assumption here that digital cameras accurately capture what is in front of them. This tends not to be the case, for one there just isn't the dynamic range. Secondly they never really seem to capture the colour and I find a little saturation always helps. That said it becomes a different kettle of fish when you start altering what is there. Photography always used to take the high ground over art in that it captured reality whereas artists could move trees for better composition. With digital it's now as easy for a photographer to create an image rather than just capture it. Railway photography is mostly about capturing what is there so there seems little point in creating a picture of an HST pulling a freight train. On the other hand I don't really see what is wrong with airbrushing an annoying plant. After all it would have been a simple affair for the photographer to simply break off the plant and throw it away. Why kill a plant though when you can just erase it later anyway.

One last point, if you alter pic for fun and don't pass it off as reality then where is the harm. Here are a couple of links to a site you may know.......

fictitiousliveries

A4 in Virgin livery
 

Techniquest

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Is there really NOTHING that's not GWR that you like? I believe that Stanier was ex-GWR and his express engines owe a lot to GWR heritage. At least you know your own mind. How do you stand on BR Steam?

In all fairness, since writing that opinion I've been shown quite a bit of non-GWR steam and some of it is actually not bad. The Black 5s for example sound pretty good, the one on the WSR recently was surprising.

LNER steam is one I don't like much at all, however I'm making an exception for 60163 on the WSR in June. It'll probably only be a short hop (Washford to Williton for example) as I'm going primarily for the diesels, but the chance to scratch it in without uber tour ching can't be passed up. Whether or not I like it is another thing, but like I say I'll be doing the diesels more myself.

What I don't like though is transforming a GWR loco into BR Black, as the Llangollen lot have/will be doing for their 9-day mega fest soon. I could be heard to say "NO! You can't do that, it's a GWR loco, it's not right!". The latter is subject to opinion, but I'd rather it in GWR green and not BR black!

BR steam, pass on that one I'm afraid!

Anyway, I guess things like airbrushing out a plant or whatever could be acceptable (not that I know how to do so but hey), so long as it isn't passed off as reality. If that makes sense.
 
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