Impending closure of the Paddington to South Ruislip direct route

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by cjohnson, 25 Oct 2018.

  1. cjohnson

    cjohnson Member

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    Spotted a Chiltern unit in the bay platform at West Ealing today; RTT suggests there are a few ECS movements between there and South Ruislip this week.

    Is this a precursor to a change in the infrequent service that currently goes to/from Paddington?
     
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  3. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Due to the direct line via Park Royal towards Old Oak being closed beyond that freight terminal for HS2 related works, from December the Chiltern service is changed so it terminates into the bay platform at West Ealing instead of Paddington.
     
  4. Denyboy

    Denyboy Member

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    Wow, will have to ride that service from Paddington for the last time, so does this train share tracks with the central line between Greenford and South Ruislip?
     
  5. MatthewRead

    MatthewRead On Moderation

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    No there is a separate track!
     
  6. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    No, they’re separate LU and NR formations running in parallel.
     
  7. MarlowDonkey

    MarlowDonkey Member

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    If they need to turn HSTs or IETs, where will they go? Don't they go via West Ealing and Greenford at the moment.
     
  8. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    They still can turn them on the triangle.
     
  9. DavidGrain

    DavidGrain Member

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    Does that mean that Chiltern will have to put on a bus service?

    I have actually done Chiltern into Paddington a couple of times in the past when the Northolt to Neasden line has had engineering work.
     
  10. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Why would they need to put on a bus service, alternative trains will be available from West Ealing?

    For the 10th December:
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C91486/2018/12/10/advanced (South Ruislip to West Ealing)
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C91485/2018/12/10/advanced (West Ealing to High Wycombe)

    I assume the reason why it is going into the bay at West Ealing is to get rid of the need to fit a 75mph Turbo on the relief lines to/from West Ealing towards Paddington, especially with the layout of the junction at West Ealing?
     
  11. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Well yes, because the GWR service was taken off the route for exactly that reason, to avoid getting in the way of the expected Crossrail service. So it would be odd to allow Chiltern to do something GWR can’t.
     
  12. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    And for those paths for the former GWR Paddington - Greenford to be used by the initial Paddington - Hayes & Harlington shuttles using pairs of 387s instead of a 2-coach 165 to give a lot more seats [and more services for Southall & Hayes]
     
  13. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    There would be a slight difference in that the Chiltern service would presumably not have been calling at any intermediate stations. Nonetheless I agree it would be stupid to have a (probably almost empty) box-ticking DMU getting in the way of the Crossrail service.
     
  14. CMS

    CMS Member

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    This arrangement seems to mean the Greenford shuttle turns around in the West Ealing bay whilst the Chiltern unit is sat there on a longer turn-around. I didn't think this type of permissive working would be possible, it would be interesting to see if any unassuming locals end up in High Wycombe thinking it's a double-unit train!
     
  15. cjohnson

    cjohnson Member

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    The existing Chiltern service to Paddington presumably exists to allow for route knowledge into Paddington for diversionary purposes. If the new parliamentary service terminates at West Ealing how is route knowledge retained into Paddington? Or would Chiltern drivers need to be piloted for the last stretch?
     
  16. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    I've seen the West Ealing bay with 2x 165s in before (the one closest to the buffers had broken down). I would imagine that the Chiltern unit will have the doors closed before the GWR unit departs to prevent anybody having an unexpected trip to High Wycombe.

    [Worth mentioning that in the current issue of Branch Line News, the final service to Paddington on the 7th December will be a 3-coach 165 and it might stop at Ruislip/Beaconsfield as I suspect that final service will be busier than normal due to the direct route partly closing]
     
  17. Old Yard Dog

    Old Yard Dog Member

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    According to Branch Line News, the last Chiltern PSUL services on the original GWR line between South Ruislip and Paddington via Park Royal will run on Fri 7 Dec. Chiltern plan to provide a 3-car class 165 DMU for the 1057 from the former to the latter. The return 1135 from Paddington normally runs non-stop to High Wycombe but may also make additional calls at South Ruislip, Gerrards Cross and Beaconsfield on the last day.

    The section from Greenford W Jn to Old Oak West Jn CP, which runs parallel to the Central line, will then close in preparation for HS2. Trains will run via South Greenford to West Ealing bay P5 instead. This will mean that the short curve from Greenford W Jn towards South Greenford will gain a passenger service.
     
  18. djpontrack

    djpontrack Member

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    I did that section of line many years ago on a railtour and also on a Sunday morning when the first HST from Swindon to Paddington was diverted along the Greenford branch.
    I visited the area on the 13th of April this year and caught the 10:57 from South Ruislip to Pad, I had 165025.
    Is the Greenford branch getting switched from GWR to chiltern or is it just that one service that chiltern will be operating?
     
  19. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    @djpontrack
    Just the one Chiltern service along the branch, everything else will be GWR. There was talk of it being transferred to Chiltern but that plan was rejected in the recent GWR consultation (if I've spelt that right)
     
  20. PeterC

    PeterC Established Member

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    I was wondering that too.
     
  21. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Drivers don’t necessarily need to travel in their own trains to maintain route knowledge. But a fairly recent discussion about this in the wnxx forum highlighted that when Chiltern operated a service into Paddington during engineering works they didn’t have enough of their own drivers anyway.
     
  22. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    But once Crossrail is up and running 'proper' the very capacity for Chiltern to be able to divert in the first place will diminish quite significantly.
     
  23. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Sure. It will be difficult to see where the paths would come from, especially if (as people hope) Crossrail runs the same basic timetable 7/7...
     
  24. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    To be fair, taking Chilternites to West Ealing for a Crossrail connection won't be a bad alternative - though ideally the lifts at West Ealing would need to be done first.

    You'd probably need to suspend the West Ealing-Greenford shuttle so the full platform length can be used.
     
  25. Cricketer8for9

    Cricketer8for9 Member

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    Are you sure you did the train to Greenford West Jct? If it did not reverse then it would have gone south to east.
     
  26. itfcfan

    itfcfan Member

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    What are the current plans after HS2 stage 1 works finish? Are HS2 due to return the line between Park Royal towards Old Oak Common to working order around 2026? Or is this closure planned to be permanent?

    A while ago I read that ventilation shafts above the HS2 line would prevent part of the formation being used, but I'm pretty sure I later head that an alternative plan had been made and the HS2 works would block the formation during the construction period only.

    There has been discussion on a Chiltern stopping service running from High Wycombe to Old Oak Common along this line, once OOC opens for HS2 (to provide additional connectivity to Crossrail / London Overground / etc). If the closure is permanent, then this seems to be impossible (as above, the capacity to run via West Ealing doesn't seem to be available once Crossrail starts).
     
  27. paok

    paok Member

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    I thought the line was being severed at Old Oak Common West Junction with the aggregates trains into Park Royal Marcon still running.
     
  28. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    The closure can no longer be permanent, if it was then Network Rail would not be officially proposing the Chiltern service to Old Oak Common.
     
  29. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    No, further back, though effectively it is Park Royal sidings operationally.

    It depends what they decide, the route will technically be closed as the last plan I saw has no connection back on to the GWML at OOC so there is no through route.
     
  30. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Yes agree, I really meant the bit between Greenford Jns and the general Old Oak Common area, it is probably reasonable that Chiltern platforms are separate, should prevent them affecting the GW & Crossrail.
     
  31. user1234

    user1234 Member

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    Will the Chiltern Railways service stop at Drayton Green and Castle Bar Park and South Greenford or will it just run non stop?
     

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