In-between strike days and intermediate days - why no service?

[blackpoolsouth]

Looking at Northern next week and showing only it's strike day services are running on the 15th despite it being an in-between day.

Same with TPE and East Mids running a very scaled down operation

So no services from Manchester to Sheffield with any operator

How is this even allowed

Chiltern are also thinning services back

 

[Watershed]

Looking at Northern next week and showing only it's strike day services are running on the 15th despite it being an in-between day.

Same with TPE and East Mids running a very scaled down operation

So no services from Manchester to Sheffield with any operator

How is this even allowed

Chiltern are also thinning services back

It's allowed because the operators are essentially given complete leeway by the DfT in terms of the timetables they run. In many cases, the limited timetable is simply a result of the limited planning resource which the operators have. They don't have the time or manpower to develop anything more complex.

In some cases that are other limitations too, such as issues with units being serviced/maintained due to the strike, which results in lower availability for 'shoulder' days.

The RMT know full well that this is how 'shoulder' days are handled and chose their strike days accordingly. They can achieve essentially a week's disruption at the cost of no more than 4 days' lost pay.

 

[Peterthegreat]

This is the response I got from Northern.
Many shifts on the 15th would finish on the 16th so will not be covered. ^VR

 

[py_megapixel]

It's always difficult for them to run an early-morning service on the days immediately after a strike, because movements in the morning (such as bringing trains out of maintenance depots) rely on staff who "should" have booked on during the strikes.

Presumably there is a similar effect in the evening, and they don't view it as feasible to do anything in the middle?

 

[Goldfish62]

It's always difficult for them to run a service on the days immediately after a strike, because the morning service relies on staff who "should" have booked on during the strikes.

Yet SWR manages to run a near normal service from about 07:30 after strike days.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Yet SWR manages to run a near normal service from about 07:30 after strike days.

As have Northern.

 

[py_megapixel]

Yet SWR manages to run a near normal service from about 07:30 after strike days.

Sorry, there's a word missing from my post. I was referring specifically to the early-morning services.

 

[CAF397]

Network Rail signallers are striking too, aren't they?

That means many signalboxes won't be open overnight, opening around 0600 or 0700 when the morning turn attends work.

This would affect trains coming out of depots to start service.

 

[Goldfish62]

Sorry, there's a word missing from my post. I was referring specifically to the early-morning services.

Ah right. No worries.

 

[43096]

Yet SWR manages to run a near normal service from about 07:30 after strike days.

It's later than that: more like 8-8.30 before services are started from some stations. It's also utterly useless starting then for many commuters.

 

[brick60000]

Network Rail signallers are striking too, aren't they?

That means many signalboxes won't be open overnight, opening around 0600 or 0700 when the morning turn attends work.

This would affect trains coming out of depots to start service.

Yep.

Also many depot driver shifts that prep units overnight will be evening jobs from the previous day. They won’t book on, so preps/shunt moves around depots have to be managed accordingly.

 

[diffident]

Playing devils advocate here.... if those prep shifts don't take place, and all the strikes happen... won't everyone walk in the morning after the strike to an utter mess in the depot?

 

[blackpoolsouth]

But other companies can run trains especially long distance ones yet northern can't run a Manchester to Hadfield, Rose Hill or Hazel Grove

Blackpool gets at best a few Avanti services

Nothing into the lake district or Cumbrian coast

It makes no sense and feels like we just can't be bothered. We've told you not to travel on the 15th so tough

 

[Snow1964]

Playing devils advocate here.... if those prep shifts don't take place, and all the strikes happen... won't everyone walk in the morning after the strike to an utter mess in the depot?

Most of the strikes are based on 24 hour periods from booking in time. Therefore the trains tend to be cleaned and fuelled and prepared in the early hours of a strike day (because staff started shift just before strike commenced). Those trains then sit on depot exit roads. The problems are more if a few of these get used on a strike day, and are not there when strike ends.

But some Operators seem to have a fair service in operation by 8am after a strike, so it’s more of a local question why some manage to run morning services, but others don’t

 

[RJ]

But other companies can run trains especially long distance ones yet northern can't run a Manchester to Hadfield, Rose Hill or Hazel Grove

Blackpool gets at best a few Avanti services

Nothing into the lake district or Cumbrian coast

It makes no sense and feels like we just can't be bothered. We've told you not to travel on the 15th so tough

It’s not that. The explanations given are genuine.

 

[Andyh82]

It's always difficult for them to run an early-morning service on the days immediately after a strike, because movements in the morning (such as bringing trains out of maintenance depots) rely on staff who "should" have booked on during the strikes.

Presumably there is a similar effect in the evening, and they don't view it as feasible to do anything in the middle?

I.e it’s the easy way out. Could you imagine a commercial company with revenue on the line behaving like this?

 

[SteveM70]

So what will all the Northern drivers and conductors actually do on Thursday? Sit and drink tea?

 

[ld0595]

It's the same up here in Scotland. Same strike timetable planned for the 15th, leaving parts of the Glasgow suburban network and the full Intercity network without services for nearly a week.

 

[ComUtoR]

So what will all the Northern drivers and conductors actually do on Thursday? Sit and drink tea?

Probably chips 'n gravy.

If you are booked to work then you should attend. Conductors, most likely being RMT would strike.

Drivers, most likely ASLEF, if they decide to cross the picket line, will head in to work.

Probably a few things they could be doing if not out driving a train.


We tend to drink coffee and play snooker, maybe a bit of daytime telly. I reckon Northern Drivers skip the tea and do a bit of Ferret-Legging.

 

[Goldfish62]

We tend to drink coffee and play snooker, maybe a bit of daytime telly. I reckon Northern Drivers skip the tea and do a bit of Ferret-Legging.

I hope you've got good toilet facilities for all that coffee you're drinking all day.

 

[43066]

It's later than that: more like 8-8.30 before services are started from some stations. It's also utterly useless starting then for many commuters.

Commuters? We keep being told everyone works from home these days.

So what will all the Northern drivers and conductors actually do on Thursday? Sit and drink tea?

What do you expect if there are very few trains to work? Hopefully the company will be sensible and allow spare at home, those with running turns and standbys to attend.

 

[SteveM70]

What do you expect if there are very few trains to work? Hopefully the company will be sensible and allow spare at home, those with running turns and standbys to attend.

I don’t “expect” anything. I didn’t know, so I asked

 

[fairlie]

Chiltern have said they're running nothing north of Banbury until 9 January. I can understand troubles on days adjacent to strike action but that's ridiculous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LNR are running a full service next Thurs other than a late start due to the strike affecting the night shift. I find this makes the excuses of others a bit thin.

 

[brick60000]

LNR are running a full service next Thurs other than a late start due to the strike affecting the night shift. I find this makes the excuses of others a bit thin.

Unfortunately other operators will have different circumstances - where units are stabled, whether depots are staffed internally or externally, what time signallers book on, etc.

 

[htafc]

Does trains being in the 'wrong place' following the strike action have anything to do with it?

 

[Watershed]

Unfortunately other operators will have different circumstances - where units are stabled, whether depots are staffed internally or externally, what time signallers book on, etc.

Whilst some of this does affect the timetable that can be run, WMT are arguably in one of the trickiest positions of any operator - lots of outstabling, lots of in-house depots etc. The network is treated as shut until 7am, but that doesn't stop operators from gradually building up to a normal timetable from then on.

Most operators that are running a heavily reduced service are doing so because of insufficient planning resource. Which is frankly a pathetic excuse as far as the public is concerned, and is yet another example of the 'penny wise, pound foolish' attitude that pervades the industry.

Does trains being in the 'wrong place' following the strike action have anything to do with it?

This is a common refrain (the mainstream media has certainly latched onto it) but it is very rarely accurate.

 

[htafc]

This is a common refrain (the mainstream media has certainly latched onto it) but it is very rarely accurate.

I see. Thank you

 

[Efini92]

We tend to drink coffee and play snooker, maybe a bit of daytime telly. I reckon Northern Drivers skip the tea and do a bit of Ferret-Legging.

We had to get rid of our pool table as someone kept taking the balls.
I’m pretty sure ferret-legging is only east of the Pennines

 

[43066]

I don’t “expect” anything. I didn’t know, so I asked

With all due respect, you could have asked in a less snarky way.

We had to get rid of our pool table as someone kept taking the balls.
I’m pretty sure ferret-legging is only east of the Pennines

I just had to google that. Turns out it’s actually a thing! I guess that’s why the Northern drivers and guards wear such baggy trousers. And I thought it was just bad uniform.