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In car route line diagram updates

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deltic

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I am always intrigued by London Underground's policy of updating the individual route line diagrams that are displayed in each car. Every time there is a change - eg temporary station closure, station becoming accessible etc instead of replacing the whole route diagram a sticker is placed over the relevant station. It is not unusual to see half a dozen of these stickers in place.

Anyone know when this practice started and how it is determined that the whole route diagram should be replaced rather than another sticker being added. On the one hand its quite environmentally friendly on the other it does look a bit amateurish. Any other operators do anything similar?
 
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CC 72100

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Probably does reduce the amount of time on depot needed to update the maps though.

I've seen it before in Paris done this way too, on both 'dumb' displays (just the car maps) and 'intelligent' displays where the orange light flashing = next stop, orange light steady = later stops, so on those proper placement is important!
 

Kite159

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Think of how much extra it would cost to replace the entire map when something changes instead of a small sticker?

Although I wonder when some of the Victoria Line stock will get the stickers back to say that London Overground operate at Seven Sisters & Wal Central
 

transmanche

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Anyone know when this practice started
They were certainly doing this back in the 1970s - I can remember seeing them used when the Northern line Strand station closed to be rebuilt as Charing Cross. Perhaps they've done it for as long as in-car route line diagrams have existed.

In a similar fashion, you used to see little enamel plates on the large on-platform route line diagrams. Nowadays they use stickers for amendments instead.
 

Busaholic

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My memory goes back to the Victoria Line opening and the Piccadilly diagrams, for instance, gaining stickers to show interchange with it at Finsbury Park (first stage) then Kings Cross, Warren Street and Green Park (later stages). Possibly these were the first such instances, as not a lot had happened in the years immediately prior to 1968 on the Underground.
 

deltic

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Think of how much extra it would cost to replace the entire map when something changes instead of a small sticker?

Although I wonder when some of the Victoria Line stock will get the stickers back to say that London Overground operate at Seven Sisters & Wal Central

Probably very little - the main cost will be the wages of the person who changes or amends the maps - all those stickers have to be cut to different sizes and I imagine it can be quite fiddly to get the sticker in exactly the right place
 

edwin_m

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It's still less ink and sheet to pay for and use... :|
It might be a small reduction in material consumption but I imagine the diagrams are recyclable (but might be less so when contaminated by glue from the stickers...). Unless someone has made them very difficult to remove/replace, doing so would surely be much quicker than sticking stickers on each one.
 

rebmcr

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It might be a small reduction in material consumption but I imagine the diagrams are recyclable (but might be less so when contaminated by glue from the stickers...). Unless someone has made them very difficult to remove/replace, doing so would surely be much quicker than sticking stickers on each one.

Nah, let's say you have a sheet of 30 (arranged 5 across and 6 down) 4cm×5cm rectangles. It'd be very easy and quick to dot 12 of them per carriage, compared to having a massive roll of full-size diagrams which must be removed and then reapplied, with associated waste removal.

After doing 3 or 4 carriages you'd be getting the accuracy right without much effort, indeed it's far easier to line up a small rectangle than a long, cumbersome, banner that you must also be careful not to stick to the wrong thing nor itself.

I would expect the amendment stickering to be a one-person job (made faster with more people to split the task), but I would not be surprised at all to find that the full reapplication would be a two-person job.
 

gottago

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I don’t see the problem with individual stickers being put on the diagram, I don’t think it looks amateurish at all, just shows we have an ever-changing transport network.

One thing I don’t get however is consistency. When TCR had step free access installed they were quick to get the step free blob onto the Central Line’s diagrams. But when Bond Street got step free access they didn’t bother putting a new sticker on, I still don’t think they’ve done this in trains yet and it must be about a year now since lifts were introduced.
 

Mikey C

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There's something quite comforting to me that this practice continues. I imagine it's a lot faster to quickly go through a train, placing a sticker over an existing map, even if sometimes you can tell it was a rush job by the wonkiness of the placement!
 

Wolfie

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Stations between Stratford and West Ham have been Z2&3 for at least two years. It would be good if someone bothered to update the route maps on (at least most) District line carriages.
 

TFN

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I saw an S7/8 with the 150 year anniversary in it I think three months ago. It shocked me how it was still there. I recall it was an S8 because I remember thinking how the Metropolitan Magenta faded!
 

Mojo

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I saw an S7/8 with the 150 year anniversary in it I think three months ago. It shocked me how it was still there. I recall it was an S8 because I remember thinking how the Metropolitan Magenta faded!
Isn’t that just the name of the train? In which case I wouldn’t expect it to be removed!
 

bluegoblin7

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Isn’t that just the name of the train? In which case I wouldn’t expect it to be removed!

There are a number of S8s still running around with LU150-branded CLDs. There's at least one still running around with Olympics maps too.

As always, people are encouraged not to point out the unit numbers, because they very quickly disappear once they do. Until recently there was still a 1992 stock running around with an Ongar(!) map.
 

Kite159

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There are a number of S8s still running around with LU150-branded CLDs. There's at least one still running around with Olympics maps too.

As always, people are encouraged not to point out the unit numbers, because they very quickly disappear once they do. Until recently there was still a 1992 stock running around with an Ongar(!) map.

Well until recently one of the signs at Liverpool Street had Ongar listed on the large route map at the top of the escalators in the main entrance hall, the sticker someone put on to cover it up had fallen off.

There is a few stations at the northern end of the Met line which still shows Chesham services as shuttles from Chalfont & Latimer with through services as a dotted 'limited' service. And likewise IIRC at Liverpool Street the Hammersmith & City line is shown as terminating at Whitechapel with the dotted 'limited' service to Barking.
 

bluegoblin7

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Well until recently one of the signs at Liverpool Street had Ongar listed on the large route map at the top of the escalators in the main entrance hall, the sticker someone put on to cover it up had fallen off.

There is a few stations at the northern end of the Met line which still shows Chesham services as shuttles from Chalfont & Latimer with through services as a dotted 'limited' service. And likewise IIRC at Liverpool Street the Hammersmith & City line is shown as terminating at Whitechapel with the dotted 'limited' service to Barking.

Outdated station signage is far more common, due to the increased costs of getting new enamel signage made. Common examples (in addition to those you've listed) are Aldwych and no Terminal 5 on the Piccadilly line, as well as references to 'Shepherd's Bush Green' at a handful of Central line stations; the original DLR logo; and references to the East London line on quite a lot of the JLE and east end of the District.
 

rebmcr

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at Liverpool Street the Hammersmith & City line is shown as terminating at Whitechapel with the dotted 'limited' service to Barking.

Same at West Ham, where the PIS still advises one to change at Aldgate East for the H&C.
 

Wolfie

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There are a number of S8s still running around with LU150-branded CLDs. There's at least one still running around with Olympics maps too.

As always, people are encouraged not to point out the unit numbers, because they very quickly disappear once they do. Until recently there was still a 1992 stock running around with an Ongar(!) map.
Displays of outdated or plain erroneous maps/signs might be great for enthusiasts but generally are far from that for ordinary passengers. Sorry but the damn things should be replaced immediately.
 

bluegoblin7

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Displays of outdated or plain erroneous maps/signs might be great for enthusiasts but generally are far from that for ordinary passengers. Sorry but the damn things should be replaced immediately.

That would depend on what the discrepancy is.

The huge number of S7s running around with the incorrect zoning for West Ham etc? Absolutely.

Some additional pink interchange points of interest? Nah.
 

jumble

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I am always intrigued by London Underground's policy of updating the individual route line diagrams that are displayed in each car. Every time there is a change - eg temporary station closure, station becoming accessible etc instead of replacing the whole route diagram a sticker is placed over the relevant station. It is not unusual to see half a dozen of these stickers in place.

Anyone know when this practice started and how it is determined that the whole route diagram should be replaced rather than another sticker being added. On the one hand its quite environmentally friendly on the other it does look a bit amateurish. Any other operators do anything similar?

I can go much earlier than other posters
Attached is a rather bad photo of a section of a Met carriage map which must be around 1932 or 1933 after the Stanmore branch opened.
presumably if the label was removed it would say "under construction" or similar
HTH Jumble
 

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Lrd

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Something about the Central Line diagrams was that they were updated when Tottenham Court Road was closed for refurbishment (or at least the Central Line platforms were) so they didn't include it on the diagrams and every one has to have a sticker with TCR on it.
 

700007

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Likewise IIRC at Liverpool Street the Hammersmith & City line is shown as terminating at Whitechapel with the dotted 'limited' service to Barking.

This is has just been replaced with new diagrams lately and also shows the more recently available London Overground connections. Elizabeth line is also on there but covered up with a sticker.
 
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