Inadvertent errors with carriage design

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Intercity 225

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Hi,

As I type this I'm currently travelling on a Meridian in First Class. It's a little beyond dusk but still light enough to look out of the window. However when I do so I can see everyone in my vicinity reflecting back at me to a much greater extent than I would do in a "traditional" carriage due to the upward curving design of the exterior. For a fairly modern intercity DMU the large windows on the Meridian are welcome but the passenger experience is slightly spoiled due to this issue. I'm sure this isn't deliberate but it leads me to ask what do railway designers/engineers consider when they're assessing traveller comfort?

Thanks
 
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HarleyDavidson

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Designed for the MDTR as the late Neil Morgan would probably say.

Modern Dynamic Thrusting Railway.:roll:
 

Dr Hoo

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Isn't the angle of the window effectively dictated by having a tapering coach body suitable for tilting within the British loading gauge? The bodyshell of a Meridian is basically the same as a Voyager, built for tilt.

I expect that the issue of reflections of other passengers was overridden by the desire to stop the carriages colliding with bridges, trains going the other way, etc. :D
 

455driver

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Isn't the angle of the window effectively dictated by having a tapering coach body suitable for tilting within the British loading gauge? The bodyshell of a Meridian is basically the same as a Voyager, built for tilt.

I expect that the issue of reflections of other passengers was overridden by the desire to stop the carriages colliding with bridges, trains going the other way, etc. :D

Which would be understandable if the 222s were ever intended to tilt, which they were not, same as the mark 4s etc!
 

Bletchleyite

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I actually find that the windows sloping down means they reflect less because the lights are not reflecting in them. What makes them reflect more is the coating on the windows, which also affects mobile signal adversely.
 

Dr Hoo

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Noting the irony of the identity of the OP I couldn't resist it.

If I had been Hull Trains, specifying the original Pioneer order (a modest fleet of four units IIRC) I think that I might have had difficulty in justifying the cost of a new bodyshell design just to reduce reflections at night. The Meridians followed on from that, didn't they?
 

route:oxford

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It's a little beyond dusk but still light enough to look out of the window. However when I do so I can see everyone in my vicinity reflecting back at me to a much greater extent than I would do in a "traditional" carriage due to the upward curving design of the exterior.

Isn't more about managing your own expectations?

I can't see the value in changing a design to accommodate someone who needs to look out the window during the short period between dusk and darkness...

The engineers were thinking ahead. Just look at the average carriage during a commute. Only a few are looking out the window, the rest are busy frobbing phones, using laptops or reading heritage media.
 

cjmillsnun

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The 222/1s are the newest 222s AFAIK

Correct. HT 222s were a follow on from the order for MML.

That said the fact that the 222s were effectively a voyager with improvements pushed the cost down.
 

Mojo

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The biggest problem I find on the Meridians in First class is the terrible window - seat alignment. The bays tend to be the width of a window as you would normally expect, however they are all slightly offset from the window, so the seat(s) on one side of the bay always seem to be next to the plastic panelling.
 

theageofthetra

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Don't they have an anti glare coating on the windows which would increase internal reflection? Also doesn't this cause problem with mobile phone signals too?
 

Philip Phlopp

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Designed for the MDTR as the late Neil Morgan would probably say.

Modern Dynamic Thrusting Railway.:roll:

He would then have delivered a lecture how they couldn't possibly be any worse than the Alstom fleet he looked after.

That shunter at OOC still named in his honour ?
 

co-tr-paul

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Light reflection is not confined just to railway vehicles. Buses and coaches too now have this problem. Specifications are just too bright for lighting and has been for quite a few years now.
Our Night Riviera seating coach fleet has had some bulbs removed to give a more ambient interior. The change to florescent bulbs I believe started the problem. I long for a return to the days of the tungsten bulb !!
 

satisnek

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Light reflection is not confined just to railway vehicles. Buses and coaches too now have this problem. Specifications are just too bright for lighting and has been for quite a few years now.
Our Night Riviera seating coach fleet has had some bulbs removed to give a more ambient interior. The change to florescent bulbs I believe started the problem. I long for a return to the days of the tungsten bulb !!

Yes, it would seem that there was a step change with the advent of fluorescent lighting in the 1960s. Carriage interior designers had the choice of (a) the same light level with lower electrical power or (b) higher light level with the same electrical power, and appeared to have opted for (b). However, I notice that modern designs (which include the 222) have moved on from the unsubtle blanket illumination by fluorescent tubes, although of course the light level is still much higher than it was in tungsten days.

LEDs provide pretty much exactly the same light quality, but with significantly less heat and power use.

The "pretty much" bit is subject to considerable variation though!
 

edwin_m

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An annoying error with the Mk3 coach is the vestibule doors that won't stay closed. Not sure if they came open on curves from day 1 or just after some of the curving rules were relaxed.

Lack of power doors or inside opening handles was a design decision rather than an error, although it appears short-sighted today. The resulting opening of the windows makes the vestibule doors more of a problem...
 

Bletchleyite

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Barely possible to tell with the Philips ones in my house. And the increasingly common old-style tungsten clear bulbs actually lit using filament shaped LEDs are very convincing.

The key is "warm white". Not cheap daylight white, yes that means you, Chiltern.


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