Incident at Holland Park

[Antman]

It seems a small fire had broken out on or under the train?

https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=9UmzucFNwmk

 

[dannyandy]

Im unsure of how the tube is as i dont live in london but surely there must be some form of emergency door release button on the interior or exterior or is there no such thing in practice on the tubes?

 

[tsr]

Im unsure of how the tube is as i dont live in london but surely there must be some form of emergency door release button on the interior or exterior or is there no such thing in practice on the tubes?

No.

LU Stock has no visible emergency egress controls for passengers which activate the side (i.e. normal) doors. In the event of an emergency requiring evacuation, passengers should use the doors at the end of each coach (where provided - on S Stock, this is irrelevant, as coaches have "walk-through" gangways).

That's not to say passengers can't exit from the side doors, but this generally requires staff assistance or the breaking of windows.

 

[lonogrol]

There was no fire, the brakes were just hanging on. The train was unable to move because customers on the platform had pressed the emergency stop plunger. Other customers activated the fire call points.

There was no reason for the station to be evacuated, but given the actions of some panicked customers in pressing as many call points as they could find, there was no choice!

 

[Zoidberg]

No.

LU Stock has no visible emergency egress controls for passengers which activate the side (i.e. normal) doors. In the event of an emergency requiring evacuation, passengers should use the doors at the end of each coach (where provided - on S Stock, this is irrelevant, as coaches have "walk-through" gangways).

That's not to say passengers can't exit from the side doors, but this generally requires staff assistances or the breaking of windows.

In the video, at 0:50, is that an external door, or other sort of, control being operated by the staff member?

 

[Antman]

There was no fire, the brakes were just hanging on. The train was unable to move because customers on the platform had pressed the emergency stop plunger. Other customers activated the fire call points.

There was no reason for the station to be evacuated, but given the actions of some panicked customers in pressing as many call points as they could find, there was no choice!

There was clearly something that alarmed passengers and it is understandable that they wanted to get off the train and out of the station asap.

 

[burneside]

Today's Evening Standard is now reporting this story, LU saying the smoke was caused by faulty brakes on the train, it's not surprising people pressed the fire alarm button.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-it-starts-to-fill-up-with-smoke-8788815.html

 

[tsr]

In the video, at 0:50, is that an external door, or other sort of, control being operated by the staff member?

Yes, I believe so, but I am not most familiar with the specific stock on that line.

 

[bronzeonion]

In the video, at 0:50, is that an external door, or other sort of, control being operated by the staff member?

Yes, all LU stock has it, called a butterfly cock and it opens/closes one of the saloon doors on the carriage it has been activated on.

 

[Mu301nh]

Had there been an announcement on the train? This kind of footage can only be embarrassing for LT.

 

[Zoidberg]

Yes, I believe so, but I am not most familiar with the specific stock on that line.

Yes, all LU stock has it, called a butterfly cock and it opens/closes one of the saloon doors on the carriage it has been activated on.

Thanks

 

[Crossover]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23882226

Another web link

Some may disagree but I can't help but feel that the people yanking on the doors could have caused more harm than good (especially since people were getting trapped in them) and I'm not sure that woman climbing up towards the roof was really called for either...bloody good job she didn't slip down on to the live rails!

 

[ushawk]

Yet more sensationalism and overreaction. Thought she was going to die ? I mean REALLY ?

It was a little bit of smoke, of course it would be a worry especially with doors not opening but it wasnt as if the entire train was on fire and that they were seconds from death.

 

[Zoidberg]

Yet more sensationalism and overreaction. Thought she was going to die ? I mean REALLY ?

It was a little bit of smoke, of course it would be a worry especially with doors not opening but it wasnt as if ... they were seconds from death.

But how did they know that? Kings Cross must still be in the mind of every tube user of a certain age and upwards. And no matter if this incident did not parallel that one - all folk know is that smoke and fire kills.

How often are people killed by smoke and fire? Just the once.

 

[northern156]

Some may disagree but I can't help but feel that the people yanking on the doors could have caused more harm than good (especially since people were getting trapped in them) and I'm not sure that woman climbing up towards the roof was really called for either...bloody good job she didn't slip down on to the live rails!

They wouldn't have been live if the emergency stop plunger was activated

 

[Mojo]

They wouldn't have been live if the emergency stop plunger was activated

Yes they would. Platform Emergency Plungers just stop trains, they do not discharge traction current.

 

[ushawk]

But how did they know that? Kings Cross must still be in the mind of every tube user of a certain age and upwards. And no matter if this incident did not parallel that one - all folk know is that smoke and fire kills.

How often are people killed by smoke and fire? Just the once.

There was barely any smoke, you cannot compare that to Kings Cross. Were not talking loads of smoke here, only a few whisps of it.

 

[jon0844]

There was barely any smoke, you cannot compare that to Kings Cross. Were not talking loads of smoke here, only a few whisps of it.

I'm sure it was a case of someone spotting/smelling smoke and very quickly the words spread through the train were 'fire', 'train about to explode', 'bomb', 'quick get your camera out and film it', and 'what's the email address for the Daily Mail newsdesk?'.

 

[Antman]

If the driver knew what had happened it might have helped if he had made a PA announcement to explain and assure passengers that there was no cause for alarm.

It's easy for people on here to say there was no need for panic etc......but unless they were there at the time they are hardly in a position to pass judgement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yet more sensationalism and overreaction. Thought she was going to die ? I mean REALLY ?

It was a little bit of smoke, of course it would be a worry especially with doors not opening but it wasnt as if the entire train was on fire and that they were seconds from death.

Easy to say that if you weren't there eh?

 

[pbaran]

No.

LU Stock has no visible emergency egress controls for passengers which activate the side (i.e. normal) doors. In the event of an emergency requiring evacuation, passengers should use the doors at the end of each coach (where provided - on S Stock, this is irrelevant, as coaches have "walk-through" gangways).

That's not to say passengers can't exit from the side doors, but this generally requires staff assistance or the breaking of windows.

But as you can see in the video, the doors at each end of the carriage are not a quick, practical or safe way to exit the carriage in an emergency. What were the passengers supposed to have done if there had been immediate cause to get out of the carriage - such as an actual fire - and no member of staff present to operate the saloon doors?

In the case of S Stock, you're effectively trapped, aren't you?

 

[jon0844]

How likely is a fire though? Besides what people might be carrying themselves, surely everything is designed to resist fire and would more likely smoulder and self-extinguish?

 

[Antman]

How likely is a fire though? Besides what people might be carrying themselves, surely everything is designed to resist fire and would more likely smoulder and self-extinguish?

A fire is pretty unlikely and so is a terrorist attack, but..........!

 

[jon0844]

A terrorist attack is of course something you can't really factor in on train design (bar things like laminated glass etc), especially an open plan train like the S Stock.

 

[Mojo]

In the case of S Stock, you're effectively trapped, aren't you?

No, because the cab doors at each end of the train can be opened by customers from within the saloon in the event of an emergency. Further, all stations are rostered to have LU staff present 24/7, bar a few exceptions which I don't feel the need to document here.

It is also worth pointing out at this point that in the near future 'canopy' barriers' will be installed on certain stocks (including 1992 stock) which will prevent customers from being able to exit by going upwards like the lady in the video did.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm sure it was a case of someone spotting/smelling smoke and very quickly the words spread through the train were 'fire', 'train about to explode', 'bomb', 'quick get your camera out and film it', and 'what's the email address for the Daily Mail newsdesk?'.

You forgot 'will there be any compensation?'

 

[Mojo]

As RAIB is now looking into this I expect we can read all about it in about a year...

 

[DavyCrocket]

As RAIB is now looking into this I expect we can read all about it in about a year...

A union has released more information to its members now as well. More customers detrained in the method shown, which computers said were impossible.

 

[WatcherZero]

RAIB investigation announcement says they will be focusing on the incident management. Why the train operator took 4 minutes to open the doors in the platform after stopping (people started exiting via intercarriage doors after 2 minutes), longer than the two and a half minutes it took station staff to reach the platform and open one of the doors.

 

[whoosh]

From weblog:
Aslefshrugged

Over the last week I’ve managed to find out more about the incident at HOP through various sources and for starters it wasn’t a brake fault it was a “flashover” on one of the motors which sounds dramatic but in fact is no more life threatening than a dragging brake.

The train was stopped by someone pulling down a Passenger Emergency Alarm in Car 2 and the TOp tried to find out what the problem was by speaking to the passenger over the “talkback”. The passenger must have said “fire” which the TOp misheard this as “fight”, not unexpected on August Bank Holiday in W11, but when you consider all the noise the other passengers were making in the background, the noise of the PEA alarm in the cab and that some of the talkbacks are about as clear as talking through two baked bean tins with a bit of string stretched between them it is not surprising the TOp couldn’t hear what the passenger was saying.

The TOp informed Wood Lane, as the train was partway into the tunnel they couldn’t open the doors so they had to walk back through the train to investigate and reset the PEA. It was only when they got to Car 2 that they noticed the smoke, calmed the passengers, alerted Wood Lane of the situation, went back to the cab and opened the doors. It was only when the TOp got back to the cab that they found that handles had been pulled down on every car from 3 back to 8 but all that, from the handle being pulled down to the doors opening, took less than four minutes.

The reason why there were no station staff on the platform was that there actually was a fight going on upstairs and everyone was up there trying to deal with it so when they were told there was another incident going on down on the platform they had to scramble down the spiral staircase. The bloke in the green hi-vi who arrives first is the “team leader” and I have absolutely no idea what they actually do, we didn’t have them when I was on stations.

So what have we learnt from this; that smoke in a train doesn’t mean you’re about to die because there is very little on a Tube train that will actually burn, that if you say “fire” it could be misheard as “fight”, especially when the Notting Hill Carnival is on, so it would be better to say “smoke” and that no matter how many staff you have on a station they can’t be two places at once.

So there we have it, a fight upstairs delayed the station staff from attending promptly.

 

[WatcherZero]

RAIB account indicates it was a brake fault producing smoke and a motor short producing noise simultaneously.