Incident at Riddlesdown (22/03/13)

[Crawley Ben]

Mod Note: Title amended

Reports this morning on the BBC news that a woman & child have been killed after being hit by a train at Purley on the London - Brighton line. A terrible & tragic incident & my thoughts go out to those involved.

Ben

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Reports this morning on the BBC news that a woman & child have been killed after being hit by a train at Purley on the London - Brighton line. A terrible & tragic incident & my thoughts go out to those involved.

Ben

Riddlesdown, not Purley. According to the reports, the train was the 07.38 ex-Uckfield and the incident seems to have happened in the station itself, although another report suggests Upper Warlingham.

Dreadful business.

 

[sarahj]

Deff Riddlesdown, not expected to reopen until 16.00. buses being run.

 

[ushawk]

Certainly wasn't the mainline !! Happened at Riddlesdown station which is in Purley on the Croydon - Oxted line.

Unusual to see a closure this long until 4PM, perhaps this is being treated as suspicious. Either way it's a very sad incident.

Service involved is the 07.34 Uckfield - London Bridge.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

. A terrible & tragic incident & my thoughts go out to those involved.

Same here

 

[sarahj]

Well we are waiting on confirmation from the emergency services as to when we can reopen and 16.00 is the best guesstimate.

 

[ushawk]

It's one of those days today - a person has just been hit at Hayes and Harlington - all services out of Paddington are suspended.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Apologies for listing Purley as the destination. Info taken from BBC news channel. I cannot begin to imagine how horrific an incident like this can be for those who have been involved/witnessed this tragic incident. I hope everybody pulls through ok. My thoughts also go out to the relatives of those whose lives were tragically ended in this incident.

Ben

 

[High Dyke]

Condolences from me. :cry:

 

[swt_passenger]

Apologies for listing Purley as the destination. Info taken from BBC news channel...

In the case where you are the thread starter, you can go back to that post and edit the thread title if you want. I see a mod has now fixed it anyway.

(No criticism intended - I'm not sure if everyone realises you can do this?)

 

[GodAtum]

A woman and child have died after being hit by a train in south London.

British Transport Police said it happened at around 08:30 GMT at Riddlesdown station.

The London Ambulance Service was called but the woman and child, believed to be a toddler, were confirmed dead at the scene.

The station, which falls into the London borough of Croydon, has closed and buses are replacing trains between Purley, Oxted and East Grinstead.

A British Transport Police spokesman said: "Enquiries are ongoing to establish the circumstances and a file will be prepared for the coroner."

Riddlesdown is about two miles south of Purley.

There was considerable disruption to services run by the Southern train company in the area, with buses running between some stations and extended journey times.

Electrical power to the line between Woldingham and South Croydon was turned off and it was anticipated the line would not open until at least 16:00 GMT.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21894520

More sad news unfortunately.

i wonder if platform netting will stop this. Basically something like a 7ft tall net on the platform that can be raised when a train passes through a station.

 

[ushawk]

More sad news unfortunately.

i wonder if platform netting will stop this. Basically something like a 7ft tall net on the platform that can be raised when a train passes through a station.

Would never, ever happen. Unfortunately in some cases you cant stop things like this at stations like this.

The Daily Mail are "reporting" that it is a suicide and that she dragged her child with her into the path of the train - this is incredibly shocking and very saddening to hear, apparently the driver is, understandably, very shaken up.

Such a horrific incident and one i would never, ever want repeated in any situation.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Just heard on Heart FM news that witnesses stated the woman laid down on the track with the child in her arms. Very sad indeed.

Ben

 

[SPADTrap]

Beyond words. Thoughts to all involved especially the driver.

 

[tsr]

It sounds like a terrible incident. It must have been horrible for the driver/witnesses to watch.

The line has now reopened and it is suggested services should be more or less back to normal by 1600.

I don't know how soon the train arrived after the woman decided to lie down. If it was a minute or two, it's a great tragedy the train could not be stopped. Maybe if this was the case (though I don't really want to speculate, that said), people panicked and did not use the help point. Perhaps consideration could be given to having those emergency stop buttons on platforms, linked to the power supply to the electrification (although that would not have helped in this incident) and signalling equipment. Similar facilities exist on some Tube lines. However, I am mindful of the fact that these could get seriously misused if stations are not staffed and constantly monitored. (Maybe such a button could set signals to caution and just isolate the power at the platform. Once the situation has been confirmed safe, a plunger could be operated near the platform end, and trains could continue to run. Various other practicalities would have to be thought about, though.)

 

[Requeststop]

Extremely distressing. The third fatality in two days on the railways. Whilst it is very sad for the families of the deceased, it is indeed even more distressing for the drivers who witness the objects and people on the tracks that thay cannot do anything to avoid. My thoughts are also with them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just heard on Heart FM news that witnesses stated the woman laid down on the track with the child in her arms. Very sad indeed.

Ben

Whatever must have driven her to take this ultimate action ?

Another human tragedy on the railways of Britain.

 

[SPADTrap]

Whatever must have driven her to take this ultimate action ?

Another human tragedy on the railways of Britain.

I don't suppose we'll ever know, but I know for sure I couldn't understand what drives an individual to commit suicide and murder their child at the same time.

 

[455driver]

Perhaps consideration could be given to having those emergency stop buttons on platforms, linked to the power supply to the electrification (although that would not have helped in this incident) and signalling equipment. Similar facilities exist on some Tube lines. However, I am mindful of the fact that these could get seriously misused if stations are not staffed and constantly monitored. (Maybe such a button could set signals to caution and just isolate the power at the platform. Once the situation has been confirmed safe, a plunger could be operated near the platform end, and trains could continue to run. Various other practicalities would have to be thought about, though.)

So you dont want any trains to run on a Friday or Saturday night then!

If it put the signals to caution (train approaches on greens doing 100mph and the home signal goes back to one yellow in front of the driver (meaning that the next signal is at red) the train would be stopped at the earliest convenient point and the driver would need to be relieved due to being shaken up or probably because he has SPADed, yes seriously), also if the power is isolated in the platform but the train runs onto the isolated section then it would act as a bridge and would electrify the isolated section again.

Both ideas are totally unworkable/ impractical.

 

[SPADTrap]

So you dont want any trains to run on a Friday or Saturday night then!

If it put the signals to caution (train approaches on greens doing 100mph and the home signal goes back to one yellow in front of the driver (meaning that the next signal is at red) the train would be stopped at the earliest convenient point and the driver would need to be relieved due to being shaken up or probably because he has SPADed, yes seriously), also if the power is isolated in the platform but the train runs onto the isolated section then it would act as a bridge and would electrify the isolated section again.

Both ideas are totally unworkable/ impractical.

Pretty good points about the SPAD etc.

Out of interest I wonder whether or not the stop buttons on some of the underground lines have ever been misused?

Not sure if there is a workable solution really, short of running towards the train flailing I can't see how to give the driver enough warning to be able to stop in the event of this happening! Purely out of interest how would an ATO (without driver monitoring) system handle somebody in the tracks in front of the train?

 

[Goatboy]

I cannot begin to imagine how the driver and witnesses must be feeling. My thoughts are with them. Suicide is bad enough for them to cope with but this is just another level.

 

[GB]

If someone is determined to end their own life, there is very little anyone can do to stop them.

Such a sad thing when an innocent child is involved.

 

[tsr]

So you dont want any trains to run on a Friday or Saturday night then!

If it put the signals to caution (train approaches on greens doing 100mph and the home signal goes back to one yellow in front of the driver (meaning that the next signal is at red) the train would be stopped at the earliest convenient point and the driver would need to be relieved due to being shaken up or probably because he has SPADed, yes seriously), also if the power is isolated in the platform but the train runs onto the isolated section then it would act as a bridge and would electrify the isolated section again.

Both ideas are totally unworkable/ impractical.

Thanks for the feedback.

But how do you suppose lightly-staffed Tube stations work of an evening? Few people feel the need to push the buttons. A few more might be inclined to if/when a station is unstaffed. Therefore I have chosen to suggest the risk of the effects of unwanted button presses would be mitigated by not throwing signals to Danger. In addition, I would expect this sort of thing to only be implemented in well-used stations, stations on busy lines with poor sightlines, known suicide hotspots and so on, where probably on balance there are more likely to be CCTV cameras and other crime/suicide monitoring and prevention measures. Hopefully staff would be available, in any case, to provide a presence and prevent trouble, and also to advise on any false alarms.

The system would be designed to only be used in the direst emergencies. The driver needs to stop ASAP if a major obstruction or a person is on the track. They would probably be rather more traumatised if they actually hit somebody, whereas a signal at Caution might just possibly allow them to slow down and stop short of any hazard or a Danger signal protecting it. I appreciate having Caution thrown on a driver/train would not be a nice experience, especially at high speeds, but if a person is on the track without authority, the whole situation would most certainly require any train to be stopped, as now.

As for power isolation, the person on the tracks would be safer, even if it was only until a train managed to approach in such a way that bridging did occur. Marginally safer, but safer nonetheless, I'm sure.

Obviously, the system would need a great deal of thought. This is just an idea. Not even a major proposal.

 

[455driver]

Purely out of interest how would an ATO (without driver monitoring) system handle somebody in the tracks in front of the train?

It wont, it will just carry on as normal, stopping at the next station with (parts of) the deceased stuck to the front.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks for the feedback.

But how do you suppose lightly-staffed Tube stations work of an evening? Few people feel the need to push the buttons.

How many tube trains run through stations at 100mph?

As for the rest of your post, what is the difference between an emergency and a dire emergency and who decides?

 

[OxtedL]

(though I don't really want to speculate, that said)

An important step on the way to not speculating is not speculating.

 

[tsr]

It wont, it will just carry on as normal, stopping at the next station with (parts of) the deceased stuck to the front.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


How many tude trains run through stations at 100mph?

As for the rest of your post, what is the difference between an emergency and a dire emergency and who decides?

No difference is meant between "dire emergency" and "emergency"!

Tube trains do not run through stations at 100mph, but the system is not designed to handle trains at such speeds. It is perfectly well-designed for what it needs to be, or so is my understanding. Surely there is no reason why we can't discuss (as we are) a system which would perform a similar (not identical job) on NR lines.

An important step on the way to not speculating is not speculating.

That is why I stopped right when I did. We know the woman and child ended up on the tracks. I was saying that it would have been much better to have been able to stop the train should there have been sufficient time. I'm not actually saying there was time.

 

[amcluesent]

It may have been a "cry for help" and she thought the train was a stopping service?

Then again, I recall a woman who jumped at PBO and it was a stopping service, at the reducing speed it just severed her legs.

 

[westcoaster]

Certainly wasn't the mainline !! Happened at Riddlesdown station which is in Purley on the Croydon - Oxted line.

Unusual to see a closure this long until 4PM, perhaps this is being treated as suspicious. Either way it's a very sad incident.

Service involved is the 07.34 Uckfield - London Bridge.

I would think the reason it took so long is because its counted as a suicide and murder. Such a distressing incident my thoughts go out to all those involved and especially the driver involved.

 

[ExRes]

Obviously nobody wants this type of incident to occur and kind words are reasonable, but what on earth is your comment about SPADTrap, "I can't help but feel a little guilt .."

Guilt about what ? Did you put this woman on the track ? Diana Syndrome doesn't help anyone at all, if she chose to kill her child that's her business and HER guilt

 

[Southwest]

I cannot begin to imagine how the driver and witnesses must be feeling. My thoughts are with them. Suicide is bad enough for them to cope with but this is just another level.

Well said, everyone is offering condolences to the families of the deceased but no-one has mentioned the driver and others who may have witnessed this selfish act. This sounds very premeditated, if people are that desperate to off themselves, do it with booze and pills or somewhere where you are not going to cause innocent members of the public distress.

And before anyone gets on their high horse, my uncle decided to top himself on a motorway. Ran in front of a fully laden petrol tanker and could only initially be identified by one of his trainers. He ruined the life of the tanker driver and had a profound effect on at least two emergency services personnel who were first on the scene.

Suicide is sad and selfish, simple as that.