Incident involving 6A11 Robeston to Theale tank train (06/03/2021)

Status
Not open for further replies.

father_jack

Member
Joined
26 Jan 2010
Messages
906
6A11 Robeston to Theale tank train broke 2 rails near Llanharan yesterday, recessed in Bristol East Depot for inspection...........
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
6,037
Location
Somewhere
6A11 Robeston to Theale tank train broke 2 rails near Llanharan yesterday, recessed in Bristol East Depot for inspection...........

Brake rigging collapsed on one of the bogies coming into contact with wheel set. Resulted in scoring and significant wheel flat.
 

Western 52

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
193
Location
Burry Port
Very worrying I think. The train had travelled through the Severn Tunnel in that condition. Thankfully there was no incident. What is the maintenance schedule for these wagons?
 

tiptoptaff

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2013
Messages
2,548
Sounds very similar to the incident out west a couple of years ago, which caused significant rail damage over a fair distance
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,435
Location
Caerphilly
Not sure if this is connected or not but another broken rail has been discovered today on the Up Line in the same area resulting in all Up Trains being diverted via VOG and Maesteg services shuttling to and from Bridgend with disruption expected until 2100
 

Amlag

Member
Joined
8 Jul 2018
Messages
125
Is the loaded fuel train still at Bristol East Depot ( since about 0530 Sat 6/3/21 or has it now proceeded on its way to Theale after the defective wagon was either made fit to travel or was detached to the sdgs there for repairs etc. ?
 

father_jack

Member
Joined
26 Jan 2010
Messages
906
Investigation announced:

At around 02:10 hrs on Saturday 6 March 2021, train reporting number 6A11, the 21:25 hrs freight service from Robeston (Milford Haven) to Theale, caused damage to the track that it travelled over on the part of its journey between Pencoed and Llanharan, including two broken rails. The train, which did not derail, stopped beyond Cardiff Central station following a call from the signaller to the driver informing them of a possible problem with the train. The driver was instructed to continue over the wheel impact load detection system at Marshfield, to try and confirm suspicions that wheel flats had caused the track damage. The detection system did not highlight any problem with the train, which was then allowed to continue on its journey. The train was finally stopped in the Horfield Junction area, near Bristol, after a report of it making unusual noises was made by staff at the maintenance depot at Stoke Gifford.

The train consisted of a locomotive and 23 tank wagons loaded with petroleum products. Examination of the train found that part of the brake rigging on the leading bogie of the eleventh wagon had become detached, and that the trailing pair of wheels on that bogie had suffered significant damage (wheel flats). Some of the components of the braking system were missing altogether. Upon inspection, several other wagons in the train also showed evidence of wheel tread damage, possibly consistent with their wheels having stopped rotating at times during the journey.

The RAIB’s preliminary examination has concluded that the brakes of all the wagons in the train were almost certainly properly released when the train left Robeston. It appears that some sets of wheels ceased to rotate at some point during the journey, leading to the development of the wheel flats, and began to turn again, possibly after the train had come to a stop at Margam for a change of driver. The impacts from the rotating, damaged, wheels, particularly those on the eleventh wagon, gave rise to the broken rails, and may also have caused the damage to the brake rigging on that wagon.

Our investigation will aim to establish the sequence of events and determine why the wheels behaved in this way, and why the braking components failed. It will examine how the developing incident was handled by the Network Rail operating staff along the route, and consider any underlying management factors. Our investigation will also explore any similarities to the events leading to the derailment at Morlais Junction in August 2020, which is the subject of an on-going RAIB investigation, and to the track damage incident between Ferryside and Llangennech in 2017, which is described in RAIB report 17/2018.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/track-damage-between-pencoed-and-llanharan

Worrying how it was sent forward to the Marshfield "wheelchex/GOTCHA" wheel monitoring system rather than stopping and being inspected regardless of the potential delay to other trains.

(apologies to mod, forgot to preview link.)
 
Last edited:

notlob.divad

Established Member
Joined
19 Jan 2016
Messages
1,605
Sorry for my naivety, would this have been a similar type of train between the same locations as the one that derailed at Llangennech last August? That too has been linked to flat spots and an issue with the braking system.

Two similar incidents in a relatively small space of time would (at least in my mind) indicate more than bad luck, even if the root causes of such a situation turn out to be different.
 

JN114

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2005
Messages
2,853
Sorry for my naivety, would this have been a similar type of train between the same locations as the one that derailed at Llangennech last August? That too has been linked to flat spots and an issue with the braking system.

Virtually Identical, both were loaded petroleum product trains between Robeston and Theale. The Puma bogie tank wagon fleet is a mishmash of vehicles from several batches, so there may be some subtle differences in the consist of the train. But to all intents and purposes same formation of train, very similar sounding fault given RAIB focus in both investigations.

The issues have happened slightly further up the line towards Cardiff in this instance
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
6,037
Location
Somewhere
I don’t know about the location but yes it is the same train/service. Must be running out of wagons now I reckon!
 

2HAP

Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
440
Location
Hadlow
Sorry for my naivety, would this have been a similar type of train between the same locations as the one that derailed at Llangennech last August? That too has been linked to flat spots and an issue with the braking system.

Two similar incidents in a relatively small space of time would (at least in my mind) indicate more than bad luck, even if the root causes of such a situation turn out to be different.

It's three similar incidents:- Carmarthen Jcn - Llangyfelach Tunnel, 21-10-17, Llangennech 26-8-20, and Pencoed - Llanharan 6-3-21. (edited for typo correction)
 

Western 52

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
193
Location
Burry Port
Yes 3 similar incidents now. How old are these wagons? They seem to have been around for ages. I know it's more about maintenance than age though. They pass about 15 metres from my house and each wagon makes a different sound. Some rattle more than others. How often are they inspected I wonder?
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
7,011
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
It's three similar incidents:- Carmarthen Jcn - Llangyfelach Tunnel, 21-10-17, Llangennech 26-8-20, and Pencoed - Llanharan 6-3-21. (edited for typo correction)

It does make you wonder how long either DB will continue to operate this service, or how long it will be allowed to remain on the railways. While It's still safer than road haulage, to hear of another incident where the brake rigging has become detached or is missing altogether is somewhat concerning - more so when You need a heightened level of paperwork to be an ECM of freight wagons like this!
 

kermit

Member
Joined
2 May 2011
Messages
485
If Llangennech's £60m cost, massive wider disruption and sheer terror at how it could have played out were not enough of a wake up call to get the maintenance right, I don't know what would be.
 

doningtonphil

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2014
Messages
91
Yes 3 similar incidents now. How old are these wagons? They seem to have been around for ages. I know it's more about maintenance than age though. They pass about 15 metres from my house and each wagon makes a different sound. Some rattle more than others. How often are they inspected I wonder?
I think that people who live near the line where a regular service passes are valuable sources of information. What sort of sounds are you hearing? Evidence of flats on the wheels? What is the rail type near you? Is it jointed or smooth rail?
 

Western 52

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
193
Location
Burry Port
I think that people who live near the line where a regular service passes are valuable sources of information. What sort of sounds are you hearing? Evidence of flats on the wheels? What is the rail type near you? Is it jointed or smooth rail?
The track here is CWR, straight, and 75mph limit, although the oilers pass up to about 60mph. Each wagon seems to sound different - mainly rattles and bangs, but I'm no expert on wagons so perhaps this is normal anyway. Each wagon is in a different livery and there are a number of designs from what I can see. They are mostly quite dirty, but that's not necessarily equivalent to poor maintenance. Sometimes some wagons do sound like they have wheel flats, but as the trains are noisy anyway, its hard to be sure. I guess the signalman here keeps an eye on them!

Years ago, a friend of mine who died a few years back, used to tell us some tales of incidents involving these oil trains. He was a signalman in the area. One incident he saw involved a small fire on the top of a wagon around the filler - I think they stopped that one somewhere remote for the fire service to attend.
 

rick pike

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2013
Messages
65
Location
Grimsby
I understand that the previous two incidents were caused by faults from wagons that were built as recently as 2005
 

stj

Member
Joined
15 Apr 2019
Messages
250
I believe the newest of the tanks where built in Poland over 10yrs ago some of the vehicles are in the same livery I remember from the 90s
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
24,759
Location
Scotland
Sorry for my naivety, would this have been a similar type of train between the same locations as the one that derailed at Llangennech last August?
So much so that it took me a minute or two to realise where all the old posts had gone! (Thought it was an update to the previous thread)
I understand that the previous two incidents were caused by faults from wagons that were built as recently as 2005
I'd guess that it doesn't take very long for newness to be overtaken by inadequate maintenance as far as safety is concerned.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top