Incident with a fraud prevention officer at Stevenage (Govia Thameslink Railway)

[RJ]

Kind of proves my point though. Most people don't need to research , to know not to shoplift excetera. And the people that are telling me I can and then cannot are the staff of the toc , not just people with an opinion.

The reality is that staff can get it wrong.

Normal customers of the railway aren't oblivious to this - they do notice when they get inconsistent advice, stopped by barrier staff who don't understand off peak restrictions etc. I even had to deal with a situation where a relative with a Disabled Freedom Pass was being denied access to London Overground services before 0930, because the TOC who manned the gates was teaching its staff wrong.

It's just one of those areas in life where you have to recalibrate your expectations and act accordingly. Yes, ticket inspection staff should understand tickets and give correct advice, but the reality is that doesn't always happen. Railway culture dictates that reading and understanding the Conditions of Travel and other ticket T&Cs is a specialist technical skill that frontline staff are not expected to have - and that learning should be done by asking staff with a longer length of service, who might not have read those documents themselves or updated their knowledge for years. This is not a reliable method of getting accurate and relevant information. So the onus is on you to check for yourself.

 

[baz962]

The reality is that staff can get it wrong.

Normal customers of the railway aren't oblivious to this - they do notice when they get inconsistent advice, stopped by barrier staff who don't understand off peak restrictions etc. I even had to deal with a situation where a relative with a Disabled Freedom Pass was being denied access to London Overground services before 0930, because the TOC who manned the gates was teaching its staff wrong.

It's just one of those areas in life where you have to recalibrate your expectations and act accordingly. Yes, ticket inspection staff should understand tickets and give correct advice, but the reality is that doesn't always happen. Railway culture dictates that reading and understanding the Conditions of Travel and other ticket T&Cs is a specialist technical skill that frontline staff are not expected to have - and that learning should be done by asking staff with a longer length of service, who might not have read those documents themselves or updated their knowledge for years. This is not a reliable method of getting accurate and relevant information. So the onus is on you to check for yourself.

So to quote you , reading and understanding the conditions of travel are a specialist skill that frontline staff are not expected to know. Then how the heck should a layperson
By the way , I am in no way defending fare dodgers , I dislike it. But how would you know to check the nrcot. I didn't look at my season ticket ( rear of ) until I read your last post. I had never heard of nrcot until I joined this forum , how can I check something I do not know existed. When I purchased my season ticket , it wouldn't be a stretch for staff to say , there is something called nrcot , make sure you read it . And assuming it's quite a weighty tome , can one remember everything in it. I mean when you go to supermarket the wife doesn't say check the supermarket conditions of use , or check the takeaway conditions of use , when going there.

 

[RJ]

So to quote you , reading and understanding the conditions of travel are a specialist skill that frontline staff are not expected to know. Then how the heck should a layperson

That's precisely it and is the reason why you get conflicting advice from staff on something which really is very basic. The railways don't quite advertise this as the state of the affairs, because it's embarrassing.

The expectation is that passengers get it right every time, though there is considerable discretion and leeway in practise. Passengers don't always get it right however and a lot of people waste a lot of money because they don't understand how to use tickets properly. Some believe they need to buy a separate ticket for each leg of their journey, some don't know break of journey is allowed etc.

By the way , I am in no way defending fare dodgers , I dislike it. But how would you know to check the nrcot. I didn't look at my season ticket ( rear of ) until I read your last post. I had never heard of nrcot until I joined this forum , how can I check something I do not know existed. When I purchased my season ticket , it wouldn't be a stretch for staff to say , there is something called nrcot , make sure you read it . And assuming it's quite a weighty tome , can one remember everything in it. I mean when you go to supermarket the wife doesn't say check the supermarket conditions of use , or check the takeaway conditions of use , when going there.

The Conditions of Travel is a long and wordy technical document. The bit that explains how season tickets can be used is shown in Section 36.2.

"A Season Ticket gives you the right to unlimited travel on train services between specific stations or within specific geographic zones during the period up to and including the Season Ticket’s expiry date. This includes the right to start, break or resume your journey, as described in Condition 16.3."

So in your case, you're good to enter and exit at intermediate stations as you please. Many, many people out there think season tickets can only be used at the stations shown on the ticket and buy a new ticket if they're making shorter journeys . Many people also think they can only be used for one return journey a day and many don't realise they can be used to cover part of the journey if they're travelling further afield. If these people read the Conditions, they'd save money. I do my best to teach them where I can spot it but it must be happening all over.

 

[baz962]

That's precisely it and is the reason why you get conflicting advice from staff on something which really is very basic. The railways don't quite advertise this as the state of the affairs, because it's embarrassing.

The expectation is that passengers get it right every time, though there is considerable discretion and leeway in practise. Passengers don't always get it right however and a lot of people waste a lot of money because they don't understand how to use tickets properly. Some believe they need to buy a separate ticket for each leg of their journey, some don't know break of journey is allowed etc.



The Conditions of Travel is a long and wordy technical document. The bit that explains how season tickets can be used is shown in Section 36.2.

"A Season Ticket gives you the right to unlimited travel on train services between specific stations or within specific geographic zones during the period up to and including the Season Ticket’s expiry date. This includes the right to start, break or resume your journey, as described in Condition 16.3."

So in your case, you're good to enter and exit at intermediate stations as you please. Many, many people out there think season tickets can only be used at the stations shown on the ticket and buy a new ticket if they're making shorter journeys . Many people also think they can only be used for one return journey a day and many don't realise they can be used to cover part of the journey if they're travelling further afield. If these people read the Conditions, they'd save money. I do my best to teach them where I can spot it but it must be happening all over.

To be honest , I break it anyway. If travelling further , then I only buy what isn't covered by my ticket anyway. I'm not arguing that it is the onus on the passenger , just when I read and post on some of these thread's I can sympathise with passengers that genuinely get caught up. It's a minefield really.