Independent Companies

[Bantamzen]

I'd say that TLC is a rather good operator (in the Huddersfield area at least). From my experiences they have been reliable, clean, have decent drivers and cheap fares.

Another vote for TLC here in the Bradford/Shipley area. Ever since First started to abandon various routes, they've taken on most and as you say are reliable, clean and cheap. My only slight niggle is that they don't seem to be transmitting GPS signals to the Metro systems for live running, but other than that they are a good local company.

 

[Deerfold]

Another vote for TLC here in the Bradford/Shipley area. Ever since First started to abandon various routes, they've taken on most and as you say are reliable, clean and cheap. My only slight niggle is that they don't seem to be transmitting GPS signals to the Metro systems for live running, but other than that they are a good local company.

When you say First abandoned various routes, most of them were contracted and won by TLC. The only routes TLC runs commercially in Bradford are the 653 (which First did abandon) and the couple of journeys a day on the 655.

 

[Bantamzen]

When you say First abandoned various routes, most of them were contracted and won by TLC. The only routes TLC runs commercially in Bradford are the 653 (which First did abandon) and the couple of journeys a day on the 655.

I'm thinking about services like:

650 Bradford-Ilkley: A service that has never been replicated, and although there is plenty of capacity on the Northern half hourly trains this was a very useful service for when trains couldn't operate or were not timetabled, as well as obviously serving the sections of route where the stations are some distance away. So when trains don't run, travelling say from where I am in Baildon to Ilkley means either a direct service to Otley (653), then change onto a 62/X52/X84, or travel to Guiseley (737) change for Otley (33/33A) then as above.

652/3 Bradford-Otley/Harrogate: As it stands TLC did eventually pick up the slack, eventually offering an hourly Mon-Sat daytime service. But for quite some time they only offered a couple of journeys a day, and this service has been a mixture of direct from Bradford, only starting at Shipley and travelling via Baildon & Esholt. And now my wife just this morning informs me that TLC have posted notice that it will be withdrawn from July (I only hope Transdev are eyeing up the slack).

655/755 Bradford-Guiseley-Headingley-Leeds: Whilst not a particularly useful end to end service, from memory this still attracted decent loadings for intermediate journeys as these each ran hourly. They have never been replicated in any way.

656/7/8/9 Bradford-Baildon-Lucy Hall: Although TLC have taken on these routes, they run only every hour now leaving a large part of Baildon with very little capacity. The 626 Bradford-Baildon run by First does still operate every 20 minutes, but in reality serves on the main part of the village (technically a town now) and the west side as it weaves it's laborious route towards Shipley.

So quite a large part of the area (with a population of around 18K and growing) will from July see only an hourly bus service (the 737 Bradford-LBA usually single deck) operating anywhere near them, or half hourly services from Northern between Bradford and Ilkley. Compare this to just over a decade ago and there were at least 4-5 services per hour, several of which were operated by double deckers meaning for much of BD17 capacity has been severely reduced. This has translated into some shocking traffic problems which get worse every year, and of course impact on the remaining services.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

First are more than capable of running a viable service into the ground without any help.

Northampton, Wirral,...

 

[Deerfold]

I'm thinking about services like:

650 Bradford-Ilkley: A service that has never been replicated, and although there is plenty of capacity on the Northern half hourly trains this was a very useful service for when trains couldn't operate or were not timetabled, as well as obviously serving the sections of route where the stations are some distance away. So when trains don't run, travelling say from where I am in Baildon to Ilkley means either a direct service to Otley (653), then change onto a 62/X52/X84, or travel to Guiseley (737) change for Otley (33/33A) then as above.

652/3 Bradford-Otley/Harrogate: As it stands TLC did eventually pick up the slack, eventually offering an hourly Mon-Sat daytime service. But for quite some time they only offered a couple of journeys a day, and this service has been a mixture of direct from Bradford, only starting at Shipley and travelling via Baildon & Esholt. And now my wife just this morning informs me that TLC have posted notice that it will be withdrawn from July (I only hope Transdev are eyeing up the slack).

655/755 Bradford-Guiseley-Headingley-Leeds: Whilst not a particularly useful end to end service, from memory this still attracted decent loadings for intermediate journeys as these each ran hourly. They have never been replicated in any way.

656/7/8/9 Bradford-Baildon-Lucy Hall: Although TLC have taken on these routes, they run only every hour now leaving a large part of Baildon with very little capacity. The 626 Bradford-Baildon run by First does still operate every 20 minutes, but in reality serves on the main part of the village (technically a town now) and the west side as it weaves it's laborious route towards Shipley.

So quite a large part of the area (with a population of around 18K and growing) will from July see only an hourly bus service (the 737 Bradford-LBA usually single deck) operating anywhere near them, or half hourly services from Northern between Bradford and Ilkley. Compare this to just over a decade ago and there were at least 4-5 services per hour, several of which were operated by double deckers meaning for much of BD17 capacity has been severely reduced. This has translated into some shocking traffic problems which get worse every year, and of course impact on the remaining services.

I wasn't saying First had been great in giving up so many routes (I used to catch them all) - but TLC hasn't taken these ones on. I do remember being able to get a bus every 10 minutes between Shipley and Guiseley and regularly caught the 653 all the way to Harrogate (and once caught the 655 from Manningham to Leeds without realising quite how long the route was). All TLC has taken on are routes that First would also have been happy to have paid to run (except the 653). Many of these First routes were abandoned years before TLC was around.

 

[Bantamzen]

I wasn't saying First had been great in giving up so many routes (I used to catch them all) - but TLC hasn't taken these ones on. I do remember being able to get a bus every 10 minutes between Shipley and Guiseley and regularly caught the 653 all the way to Harrogate (and once caught the 655 from Manningham to Leeds without realising quite how long the route was). All TLC has taken on are routes that First would also have been happy to have paid to run (except the 653). Many of these First routes were abandoned years before TLC was around.

To be honest the general feeling in the area is that First have treated it with what can only be best described as a mild neglect. You can always tell when First are losing interest in a route, usually starting when they operate it with the older vehicles in the fleet, and then services are trimmed around the edges (particularly early morning and evenings) before they finally give up on it. And we have seen this happen time and again here, indeed the 626 seems to have hit the old stock stage with First Bradford's least glamorous vehicles almost permanently plying their way along the route. I await the inevitable service reductions in due course.

As you say, there used to be a frequent service between Bradford/Shipley and Guiseley with services heading beyond to various destinations. Now its two an hour, very possibly reducing to one when the 653 is withdrawn from 22/07/17. For the amount of people along the route, particularly north of Shipley one bus and hour is a terrible service compared to the previous levels. It would be tempting at this stage to say that there must not be demand, but Northern seem able and willing to increase capacity (albeit on Sundays only as there is little scope for increases the rest of the time because of the single track between Shipley & Gusieley) and the roads as I say get busier every year. People are navigating the A6038 corridor in ever growing numbers, so there must be scope for operators to find a service that suits those currently sitting in traffic.

TLC have obviously tried, but I suspect that even though they went from a couple of services a day on the 653 to hourly, a combination of low capacity and them not being a major operator and so avoided by many passengers along sections of the route where others operate, have meant that they cannot continue to operate it commercially. It’s a crying shame, and again we can only hope that someone like Transdev are eyeing up the possibility of taking up the slack. Hey perhaps they could restore the service through to Harrogate, although that might just annoy a certain other small operator in the Harrogate area….??

 

[SCH117X]

Deleted

 

[SCH117X]

To be honest the general feeling in the area is that First have treated it with what can only be best described as a mild neglect. You can always tell when First are losing interest in a route, usually starting when they operate it with the older vehicles in the fleet, and then services are trimmed around the edges (particularly early morning and evenings) before they finally give up on it. And we have seen this happen time and again here, indeed the 626 seems to have hit the old stock stage with First Bradford's least glamorous vehicles almost permanently plying their way along the route. I await the inevitable service reductions in due course.

As you say, there used to be a frequent service between Bradford/Shipley and Guiseley with services heading beyond to various destinations. Now its two an hour, very possibly reducing to one when the 653 is withdrawn from 22/07/17. For the amount of people along the route, particularly north of Shipley one bus and hour is a terrible service compared to the previous levels. It would be tempting at this stage to say that there must not be demand, but Northern seem able and willing to increase capacity (albeit on Sundays only as there is little scope for increases the rest of the time because of the single track between Shipley & Gusieley) and the roads as I say get busier every year. People are navigating the A6038 corridor in ever growing numbers, so there must be scope for operators to find a service that suits those currently sitting in traffic.

TLC have obviously tried, but I suspect that even though they went from a couple of services a day on the 653 to hourly, a combination of low capacity and them not being a major operator and so avoided by many passengers along sections of the route where others operate, have meant that they cannot continue to operate it commercially. It’s a crying shame, and again we can only hope that someone like Transdev are eyeing up the possibility of taking up the slack. Hey perhaps they could restore the service through to Harrogate, although that might just annoy a certain other small operator in the Harrogate area….??

Is it not the case that the faster longer trains resulting from electrification have diminished bus custom to the point where the service is no longer viable or hardly viable. You can see the same in Nottingham where the tram has resulted in a number of bus reductions / cuts.

Also interesting to note that faced with Transdev operating between Harrogate and Ilkley (and onto Keighley) Connexions axed their Harrogate to Guiseley service and concentrated entirely on Harrogate to Ilkley which could imply the Otley to Guiseley section was poor performing or alternatively just another example of Mr Temples obsession with taking the French on.

 

[Rich McLean]

Brylaine in Lincolshire is a fair sized independent. Caught the IC5 a few times.

 

[Andyh82]

The likes of the 650/652 to Ilkley was axed many years ago, at the time it was blamed on the fast frequent electrified train service run with what were then, and still are, the newest trains. The service from Leeds (33, 733 or whatever it was at that time) was also axed around the same time

The 653 remained on its own, but was axed much later, during a period when First trimmed a lot of marginal services, such as the 15 & 711.

The Baildon Lucy Hall service was a straight forward tender win by TLC though

 

[RobinW]

I have to admit I always liked Epsom Buses when it was an independent operator. I found a number of family run operators provide a good level of customer service such as Renown of Bexhill and Rambler of Hastings (East Sussex) as these smaller companies have an advantage of being able to have staff that feel valued individuals and not some faceless employee number that those working for the large groups (I won't name and shame) could easily feel as decisions and involvement in reaching those decisions is often made miles if not hundreds of miles away.

Smaller companies have the opportunity to get to know their staff and can be there to help during times of need. This looking after staff makes them feel valued and this has a knock on effect on the service they give to the customer. Knowing you can talk to a manager come up with ideas that will be considered, provide open feedback both top down and from passengers and staff up the management chain to improve the company is the way forward.

Unfortunately a lot of large companies across a number of sectors have forgotten to listen to not only the customers but the staff on the front line. This is why given a chance I will support the local business first and the larger groups second.

 

[Bantamzen]

Is it not the case that the faster longer trains resulting from electrification have diminished bus custom to the point where the service is no longer viable or hardly viable. You can see the same in Nottingham where the tram has resulted in a number of bus reductions / cuts.

Yes & no I think. There is no doubt that the better train service post-electrification will have had an impact on bus services, offering better transit times from station to station as well as much more capacity. However, in more recent times many new developments have gone up along the route that are some distance from the stations. And with most of the Wharfe line stations having limited parking opportunities, sometimes barely any, as the population has grown the number of cars using the same route has ballooned. And of course with diminishing bus services there's little to tempt many commuters away.

Also interesting to note that faced with Transdev operating between Harrogate and Ilkley (and onto Keighley) Connexions axed their Harrogate to Guiseley service and concentrated entirely on Harrogate to Ilkley which could imply the Otley to Guiseley section was poor performing or alternatively just another example of Mr Temples obsession with taking the French on.

The X53 was always an odd one in my mind. Many times I wondered why Connexions didn't apply to extend it from Gusieley to Bradford via Shipley, perhaps running it as a fast between Bradford & Shipley. Maybe they didn't have the fleet capacity to extend, or they didn't want to get too far away from their comfort zone? Its hard to tell with that company, they are so obessed with their battle with TransDev that perhaps they simply neglected other routes like this? It would be kind of ironic if TransDev did step into the 653 shaped hole after July and offered something like this!

The likes of the 650/652 to Ilkley was axed many years ago, at the time it was blamed on the fast frequent electrified train service run with what were then, and still are, the newest trains. The service from Leeds (33, 733 or whatever it was at that time) was also axed around the same time

The 653 remained on its own, but was axed much later, during a period when First trimmed a lot of marginal services, such as the 15 & 711.

The Baildon Lucy Hall service was a straight forward tender win by TLC though

A similar problem exists with the Wharfe-Leeds corridor as with the Bradford one. Whilst the trains are heavily loaded from the off in the peaks, and now the half-hourlys are supplemented with a couple of extra runs in the peaks as well as the new station at Kirkstall, the A65 is still log-jammed with traffic. And as with the Bradford corridor this is because there are increasing numbers of new developments going up that are far enough away from the stations to seemingly put people off using the trains. At least Guiseley retains it's regular 33/33As as well as the 97s to soak up some demand heading south east into Leeds, but a casual observation of the area at peaks shows an awful lot of traffic heading Leeds-bound from the Wharfe valley.

The whole situation needs an urgent review, because the longer the status-quo remains the harder it will be to introduce congestion-busting options as they will just get lost in the very same and prove unreliable. I do think there is enough demand for some Harrogate/Wharfe Valley - Shipley - Bradford service, perhaps running fast in sections where duplication exists. I also think more needs to be done to link large population areas to their local stations, supplemented hopefully by more capacity once Northern start taking deliveries of their new 331s and running them in 3x2 formations (though this would need platform extensions all around). If properly sold to the commuting public, this might allow enough slack in the A65 traffic to allow the 33/33A better reliability and perhaps even serve Kirkstall en-route giving the new developments in the area a quicker access to the rail network.