Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

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ajb690

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All,

As a Southern commuter - I'd like to start a thread regarding the actual impact of the strikes on train services, so I can plan ahead. There's a long and detailed discussion in this thread about DOO - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129551. Please keep discussion of the causes of the strike to that thread - but please can we use this thread to discuss the impact on train services.

According to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36082600, the 24hr strikes will be on the 26th April, and 10th and 12th of May. As the strikes start at 11am, for us commuters the effective dates will be 26-27th April and 10-13 May.

I assume Thameslink will continue to run (albeit heavily overcrowded), and maybe some Southern BML services that are already DOO - I know there are some, but I don't know which (Metro and some GTW - VIC?). Does anyone know which lines are likely to run, and which are not?

Drew
 
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ainsworth74

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Just to confirm this thread is for discussions of and reporting on the impact to passengers of the strike action that is now planned. Discussion of DOO, the dispute itself or any other related matters is off-topic and will be deleted as such.

Anyone wishing to discuss those issues must use the existing thread for that topic which can be found here.
 

Domh245

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If you use this site to check your train, at the top of the page for it, it will say whether or not it is DOO. For example, this one is DOO, but this one isn't. It does depend if drivers walk out as well?
 

tony6499

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If you use this site to check your train, at the top of the page for it, it will say whether or not it is DOO. For example, this one is DOO, but this one isn't. It does depend if drivers walk out as well?

Might find drivers not walking out but withdrawing co-operation on strike days so possibly get short notice cancellations etc
 

Mojo

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ls it just Conductors, or will all RMT members at the company also be on strike?
 

bengley

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ls it just Conductors, or will all RMT members at the company also be on strike?

Just guards at this time, I believe the ballot is still ongoing for the ticket office staff
 

Mojo

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How many members of the driving grades at GTR are RMT members? I'm surprised they didn't at least extend it to all members within the company. I think this is where they went wrong on the Overground dispute.
 

tsr

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Might be worth saying which Southern routes currently require conductors:

Any service between Sanderstead and Oxted / Uckfield / East Grinstead
Any service between Redhill and Reigate / Tonbridge
Any service between Three Bridges and Horsham / Arun Valley and coastal services via Barnham
All Coastway services East & West of Brighton, eg. to Lewes/Seaford/Eastbourne/Hastings/Ore and to Hove/Worthing/Chichester/Littlehampton etc.
Leatherhead - Guildford
Dorking - Horsham
Clapham Jn - WLL stations, Watford Jn and Milton Keynes Ctl (and I believe Tulse Hill - Imperial Wharf in the event of any incident preventing access via Clapham Jn)

Any Class 171 operated service, eg. Marshlink + the evening London Bridge - East Croydon shuttles
Any 12 coach trains not on routes mentioned above

Overnight Southern services routinely have conductors so may need to be cancelled if the driver cannot be asked to take them DOO
Southern services calling at Coulsdon South (bar one), Merstham, Earlswood and Salfords can only run DOO in very specific circumstances which may not be covered by industrial action
 
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Class 466

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It's probably also wise to note Southeastern crew a fair percentage of Redhill - Tonbridge Runs, as to whether they could stretch to cover an entire shuttle service to keep the line open remains to be seen.
 

Class 170101

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WLL will still be covered by LOROL (their own services) and of course other operators cover the WCML to Milton Keynes.
 

ajb690

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Many thanks to the mods for allowing this discussion.

Might be worth saying which Southern routes currently require conductors:

Any service between Sanderstead and Oxted / Uckfield / East Grinstead
Any service between Redhill and Reigate / Tonbridge
Any service between Three Bridges and Horsham / Arun Valley and coastal services via Barnham
All Coastway services East & West of Brighton, eg. to Lewes/Seaford/Eastbourne/Hastings/Ore and to Hove/Worthing/Chichester/Littlehampton etc.
Leatherhead - Guildford
Dorking - Horsham
Clapham Jn - WLL stations, Watford Jn and Milton Keynes Ctl (and I believe Tulse Hill - Imperial Wharf in the event of any incident preventing access via Clapham Jn)

Any Class 171 operated service, eg. Marshlink + the evening London Bridge - East Croydon shuttles
Any 12 coach trains not on routes mentioned above

Overnight Southern services routinely have conductors so may need to be cancelled if the driver cannot be asked to take them DOO
Southern services calling at Coulsdon South (bar one), Merstham, Earlswood and Salfords can only run DOO in very specific circumstances which may not be covered by industrial action

In summary, then - no train services on the lines mentioned above; while I don't know about Metro services, the only option for Coastway/BML is going to be drive to Gatwick/Brighton (and I don't want to think how crowded those services will be). Is that right?
 

tsr

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It's probably also wise to note Southeastern crew a fair percentage of Redhill - Tonbridge Runs, as to whether they could stretch to cover an entire shuttle service to keep the line open remains to be seen.

Also worth saying that some of those trains have a Southeastern driver but a Southern conductor, and Southeastern drivers are absolutely not permitted to drive DOO between London Victoria/London Bridge and Tonbridge via Redhill. So you'd have to have Southeastern conductors on all those services. A shuttle service between Redhill and Tonbridge might make the most sense, but then again neither SE crews nor management may be inclined to help out during planned industrial action.
 
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maniacmartin

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It's worth noting that the DOO trains and non-GTR modes of transport will be significantly busier during the strike. You can bet that DOO trains leaving London in the evening will have extra displaced passengers to Croydon etc.

I am planning to book a Travelodge on another line on at least one of the nights.
 

Bishopstone

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Is there scope to lengthen some Brighton Mainline Thameslink services (those that aren't 12-car already), if necessary by deploying more of the (nominally GatEx) 387/2s?
 

tony6499

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Is there scope to lengthen some Brighton Mainline Thameslink services (those that aren't 12-car already), if necessary by deploying more of the (nominally GatEx) 387/2s?

I doubt any driver will do anything that is not rostered to help GTR management during a dispute, neither would I think Thameslink would want to do anything to upset their drivers at this time either.

It is a very delicate situation that doesn't need anyone or anything making things worse.
 

Chrisgr31

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Bearing in mind Southerns total inability to tell passengers what is happening I predict total chaos and it being impossible to find out what is happening. Presumably there are also opportunities for trains to get half way through a journey but then get cancelled because the crew member is not available at some station where there is a crew change?

I'd also expect us to find drivers refusing o work rest days etc.

I assume though there will be ticket acceptance on Southeastern which will solve many problems for a large number of Uckfield line passengers.
 

tony6499

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Bearing in mind Southerns total inability to tell passengers what is happening I predict total chaos and it being impossible to find out what is happening. Presumably there are also opportunities for trains to get half way through a journey but then get cancelled because the crew member is not available at some station where there is a crew change?

I'd also expect us to find drivers refusing o work rest days etc.

I assume though there will be ticket acceptance on Southeastern which will solve many problems for a large number of Uckfield line passengers.

I'd imagine they will rip up the timetable and run there and back workings with managers and non union guards working them, that is what happened on previous strike days.
 

causton

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WLL will still be covered by LOROL (their own services) and of course other operators cover the WCML to Milton Keynes.

Not worth mentioning as anyone who uses this line already knows what to do if SN is not working, as the services are cancelled so often Euston LUL staff just let us through without even checking these days :lol:
 

MrB

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I assume though there will be ticket acceptance on Southeastern which will solve many problems for a large number of Uckfield line passengers.

Oh I hadn't thought of that, probably means the Hastings Line (my local one) will be busier than usual.
 

paul1609

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Presumably it will also affect First Great Westerns Gatwick Service? I understand this is partially manned from Redhill?
 

ajb690

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Thanks to Chris for the link; I note:

Routes with no Southern service
We expect that no Southern trains will operate in either direction on the following routes:

Clapham Junction to Milton Keynes via Kensington Olympia
Dorking to Horsham
Oxted to Uckfield
Haywards Heath to Lewes
Preston Park to Hove
Lewes to Seaford
Eastbourne to Ashford International via Hastings (Southeastern services will operate between St Leonards Warrior Square and Hastings as normal)
Chichester to Portsmouth Harbour and Southampton Central (South West Trains and Great Western Railway services will operate between Havant and Portsmouth Harbour/Southampton Central as normal)
Redhill to Tonbridge
Redhill to Reigate (Great Western Railway services will operate on this route as normal)
Earlswood, Salfords and Faygate stations will not be served

Routes with a limited service between approximately 07.30 and 18.30

A limited service will operate in both direction between approximately 07.30 and 18.30 on the following routes:

London Bridge - Norwood Junction - East Croydon - Sanderstead - Riddlesdown - Upper Warlingham - Woldingham - Oxted - Hurst Green - Lingfield - Dormans - East Grinstead
London Victoria - Clapham Junction - East Croydon - Redhill - Gatwick Airport - Three Bridges
Three Bridges - Crawley - Ifield - Littlehaven - Horsham - Christs Hospital - Billingshurst - Pulborough - Amberley - Arundel - Ford - Barnham - Chichester
Brighton - Hove - Aldrington - Portslade - Fishersgate - Southwick - Shoreham - Lancing - East Worthing - Worthing - West Worthing - Durrington - Goring - Angmering - Littlehampton - Ford - Barnham - Bognor Regis
Brighton - London Road - Moulsecoomb - Falmer - Lewes - Glynde - Berwick - Polegate - Hampden Park - Eastbourne

A timetable of these services will be provided here as soon as it is available. These trains are expected to be extremely busy and we cannot guarantee there will be space for you to travel. We strongly advise you to travel outside peak times where possible. We also advise you to avoid planning to travel on the last trains of the day - if you are unable to board services we will not be able to arrange alternative transport.

Please note that the last trains of the day on the above routes are at approximately 18.00; or even earlier where your journey requires a change at either Three Bridges or Brighton.

Interesting that Southern are able to run so many services (relatively - I was expecting a complete shut down south of Gatwick/Oxted).

drew
 

tsr

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Presumably it will also affect First Great Westerns Gatwick Service? I understand this is partially manned from Redhill?

Southern drivers provide cover for some early and late GWR services on the North Downs Line. Southern conductors are not involved in working these services in any way. However, GWR's NDL services may be busier due to shortages of conductors for London Victoria/London Bridge/Redhill-Reigate services. Redhill-Reigate is not cleared for DOO(P) use.

As it just so happens, GWR Turbos can run DOO(P) between Redhill and Gatwick Airport.
 

tony6499

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Thanks to Chris for the link; I note:



Interesting that Southern are able to run so many services (relatively - I was expecting a complete shut down south of Gatwick/Oxted).

drew

I would imagine we are talking about an hourly or even twice hourly skeleton service on these lines just so it can be said services ran.

All resources will be concentrated largely on the Brighton main line services
 

387star

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The twice a day gwr trains to brighton may be busy ;) let us hope more than a 150 is provided
 

Chrisgr31

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I would imagine we are talking about an hourly or even twice hourly skeleton service on these lines just so it can be said services ran.

All resources will be concentrated largely on the Brighton main line services

There are now some timetables on the Southern site. They appear to be offering a 4 train an hour service from both East Grinstead and Brighton in the peak and 2 an hour off peak plus Thameslinks. The first train from East Grinstead is 6:54, and the last one back is 18:26. The brighton line has earlier and later trains but not many of them.
 

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Chrisgr31

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I'm not sure what is meant by "carriers" but those services are all operated by the same train company!

Carriers was meant to refer to other public transport operators, and yes I appreciate the one initially quoted are all part of GTR. However they have now added London Midland, South West, Southeastern, London Overground and London Underground to the list. be interesting to see if they add the Govia owned bus companies.

What I don't understand is why they are not trying to operate some of the peak am service on Tuesday and peak pm service on Wednesday. For example there appears to be no real reason why they couldn't operate a service on the Uckfield line like they did in the recent off-peak closure.
 
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