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Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

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JonathanH

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Carriers was meant to refer to other public transport operators, and yes I appreciate the one initially quoted are all part of GTR. However they have now added London Midland, South West, Southeastern, London Overground and London Underground to the list. be interesting to see if they add the Govia owned bus companies.

What I don't understand is why they are not trying to operate some of the peak am service on Tuesday and peak pm service on Wednesday. For example there appears to be no real reason why they couldn't operate a service on the Uckfield line like they did in the recent off-peak closure.

Possibly on the grounds that

Tuesday am: there isn't good reason to get a load of passengers to London who can't be guaranteed a means of getting home. For instance, what happens if you take a few trainloads of people from Uckfield to London and they all turn up at Tunbridge Wells later in the day hoping to get the 29 bus home?

Wednesday pm: As I understand it the strike affects shifts with booking on times up to 10:59 so therefore it is unlikely sufficient guards are back at work to operate the Wednesday pm service in time.
 
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hwl

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Carriers was meant to refer to other public transport operators, and yes I appreciate the one initially quoted are all part of GTR. However they have now added London Midland, South West, Southeastern, London Overground and London Underground to the list. be interesting to see if they add the Govia owned bus companies.

What I don't understand is why they are not trying to operate some of the peak am service on Tuesday and peak pm service on Wednesday. For example there appears to be no real reason why they couldn't operate a service on the Uckfield line like they did in the recent off-peak closure.

I suspect a limited number of managers able to substitute for guards is the main limitation on what they can attempt to offer.
Have managers been trained on the 171s?
Working hours limits probably will mean working only 1 peak.
 

tsr

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Possibly on the grounds that

Tuesday am: there isn't good reason to get a load of passengers to London who can't be guaranteed a means of getting home. For instance, what happens if you take a few trainloads of people from Uckfield to London and they all turn up at Tunbridge Wells later in the day hoping to get the 29 bus home?

Wednesday pm: As I understand it the strike affects shifts with booking on times up to 10:59 so therefore it is unlikely sufficient guards are back at work to operate the Wednesday pm service in time.

It's not so much about the booking on times for the evening shift. Traditional "late" turn (evening peak related) conductor shifts at Southern start way after 1059, and there are relatively very, very few "middle" turns, perhaps excluding Link 1 Barnham, and Redhill. In theory there should be very few issues getting crew to book on for the afternoon & evening peak due to a strike which ends at 1059. However, the likelihood is of a major risk to the network caused by going from a relatively "cold start" to full functionality - will mean contingency resources will be stretched to the limit to move stock to the right places for the evening shift to pick up their trains. Stock diagrams will be severely affected, and therefore there will be many handovers mid-journey booked for the start of the late turn which will simply not happen due to the trains themselves being in the wrong places. Running a simpler service on Wednesday evening means that resources can simply be allocated to a clockface timetable, to pick up trains as and when available.

As an example, starting the Uckfield service from scratch on a gradual basis as the late turn book on could be a recipe for disaster. London Bridge - Uckfield is a relatively complex route due to the traction used, specialist route knowledge needed (for example, various shunts needed for service) and suchlike, over which relatively few managers and assessors will therefore be trained. This, by the way, is not speculation. As such you can only really rely on competent Selhurst Conductors and a couple of other staff to work the route. Seeing as most of those conductors will probably be on strike in the morning, the stock may be in any number of inaccessible sidings at Selhurst and elsewhere by mid-afternoon when the late turn book on. The diagrams would need heavy amendment to avoid these trains being relieved on their journeys based on the usual stock and crew diagrams starting in the morning peak. Many such diagrams involve a web of crew changes across the whole route, not just East Croydon; you may be missing a train at London Bridge, a driver at Norwood, a conductor at Oxted and so on. Now multiply this by all of the other routes Southern do, all the varying stock and route knowledge, and all of the innovative methods needed to berth a large amount of stock during disruption.

So it's not just about booking-on times on Wednesday; in fact, if anything, that's the easy bit!
 

greaterwest

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Presumably it will also affect First Great Westerns Gatwick Service? I understand this is partially manned from Redhill?

It'll also affect their 2tpd in each direction at Brighton, (the peak morning & peak evening one especially) seeing as Southern don't plan to run any service between Chichester and Havant; local buses will be pushed to capacity.
 

OxtedL

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There are now some timetables on the Southern site. They appear to be offering a 4 train an hour service from both East Grinstead and Brighton in the peak and 2 an hour off peak plus Thameslinks. The first train from East Grinstead is 6:54, and the last one back is 18:26. The brighton line has earlier and later trains but not many of them.

The timetable that I see now has only 2 tph all day on the East Grinstead line. That is 5 diagrams, so 5 conductors required, and presumably not the same 5 for PM the first day and AM the second.

Only 3 trains from stations south of Sanderstead arrive in London before 9, and only 3 depart after 5. It is very much a skeleton service.
 

Surreytraveller

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What I don't understand is why they are not trying to operate some of the peak am service on Tuesday and peak pm service on Wednesday. For example there appears to be no real reason why they couldn't operate a service on the Uckfield line like they did in the recent off-peak closure.

What's the point of operating a morning peak and stranding thousands of people in London unable to get back again in the evening?
 

WatcherZero

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GTR has won a court injunction against Aslef against inducing striking.
 
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trainmania100

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Hi does anyone know if the train services that are running likely to be extended consist size?
Usually tTrains are 4 car on East coastway southern but with reduced service presumably it will be 8 car?
 

infobleep

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What's the point of operating a morning peak and stranding thousands of people in London unable to get back again in the evening?
Well if passengers choose to travel and know the evening issues then it's their responsibility if they get caught out.

Surely it would cost Southern more to cancel these services that otherwise could run?

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Any particular reason why Gatwick Express trains cannot stop at Clapham Junction. During the evening peaks o lyrics the services to Three Bridges are stopping there. Off peak it seems that it isn't the case.

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From briefly looking at the timetable it seems not many trains from Brighton are stopping at East Croydon or Clapham Junction during the peak because the services that do, all come from Littlehampton or Hove. This means passengers either go via Redhill having changed at Gatwick or Three Bridges or take a Thameslink to East Croydon and join a stopping service.

Could they not stop the Gatwick Express services are East Croydon or Clapham Junction or will they be rammed with people only wanting to go to Victoria?

Not much fun seeing a train go through Clapham Junction with empty space when your waiting for a delayed service or loads of services are cancelled.

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radamfi

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Would it be acceptable to go to Clapham Junction using Gatwick Express into Victoria then a local train back?
 

infobleep

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Would it be acceptable to go to Clapham Junction using Gatwick Express into Victoria then a local train back?
I imagine it would be but of course more time consuming. Perhaps less so than going via Redhill or a stopper from East Croydon.

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JamesTT

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Trains on BML are likely to be FULL and STANDING from the termini stations ie Brighton and Victoria. If you are travelling from elsewhere this is my suggestions. Those with flights arrange a lift or taxi. There will be many others in a similar situation club together and share the cost. Those that can work from home/a local satelite office do so. If you need to get the train drive to an alternative station on another TOCs line. For example Hastings, Ashford or Tonbridge to catch a Southeastern service or Southampton, Portsmouth, Havant or Dorking for a Southwest train.
Please remember those striking lose a days pay for every day they strike so feel strongly about why they are doing so
 

Chrisgr31

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Please don't drive to Hastings I want to get on at Wadhurst or Tunbridge Wells and would like a seat! :lol:
 

infobleep

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Trains on BML are likely to be FULL and STANDING from the termini stations ie Brighton and Victoria. If you are travelling from elsewhere this is my suggestions. Those with flights arrange a lift or taxi. There will be many others in a similar situation club together and share the cost. Those that can work from home/a local satelite office do so. If you need to get the train drive to an alternative station on another TOCs line. For example Hastings, Ashford or Tonbridge to catch a Southeastern service or Southampton, Portsmouth, Havant or Dorking for a Southwest train.
Please remember those striking lose a days pay for every day they strike so feel strongly about why they are doing so
Does anyone know what the percentage loss of trains is on the Brighton mainline compared to the usual working day?

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radamfi

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Trains on BML are likely to be FULL and STANDING from the termini stations ie Brighton and Victoria.

So would it make sense to go from, say, Haywards Heath to Brighton to Victoria? That way you get on the train at the start of the trip

Would that be allowed?
 

Bletchleyite

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So would it make sense to go from, say, Haywards Heath to Brighton to Victoria? That way you get on the train at the start of the trip

Would that be allowed?

If you buy a return from Haywards Heath to Brighton as well as your regular ticket, yes, of course (subject to condition 19).

For free, no. Why would it?
 

radamfi

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If you buy a return from Haywards Heath to Brighton as well as your regular ticket, yes, of course (subject to condition 19).

For free, no. Why would it?

If there is effectively no service on northbound trains from Haywards Heath, because all trains are full, then the only way of making the journey is via Brighton.
 

D1009

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If there is effectively no service on northbound trains from Haywards Heath, because all trains are full, then the only way of making the journey is via Brighton.
I think it's very unlikely all trains will be impossible to board at Haywards Heath. Many people work from home on strike days or get meetings rescheduled.
 

radamfi

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I think it's very unlikely all trains will be impossible to board at Haywards Heath. Many people work from home on strike days or get meetings rescheduled.

That contradicts what was said earlier about trains full and standing. Certainly, Southern are not offering strike compensation for ticket holders between Brighton line stations except stations between Horley and Coulsdon South inclusive, indicating that train travel should be viable enough.
 
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GodAtum

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is the strike still going ahead? I need to get into work but the trains and completely screwed. Southern have published timetables but this means I could be hours late for work as I would miss my connection.
 

Bletchleyite

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is the strike still going ahead? I need to get into work but the trains and completely screwed. Southern have published timetables but this means I could be hours late for work as I would miss my connection.

I would start planning alternatives for a long, protracted and highly inconvenient series of strikes over many months if I were you.
 

MrB

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is the strike still going ahead? I need to get into work but the trains and completely screwed. Southern have published timetables but this means I could be hours late for work as I would miss my connection.

If possible (obviously I don't know your circumstances) you could work from home.

However if you could tell us the journey you wish to make someone may be able to suggest an alternative route for you.
 

GodAtum

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If possible (obviously I don't know your circumstances) you could work from home.

However if you could tell us the journey you wish to make someone may be able to suggest an alternative route for you.

Unfortunately I need to go into work, I travel from Seaford to Guildford via Gatwick.
 

Bishopstone

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Unfortunately I need to go into work, I travel from Seaford to Guildford via Gatwick.

I think you can do that via three buses:

Seaford to Brighton (frequent)
Brighton to Horsham (Stagecoach, hourly-ish)
Horsham to Guildford (Arriva, also hourly-ish, if I recall correctly)

But with connection time and busy roads, you should allow two hours for each leg - so hardly practical. Use of taxis for part of the trip would, of course, reduce the journey duration somewhat.

Another option might be Seaford to Brighton by bus, train to Gatwick then GWR to Guildford as usual. But then you'd be reliant upon the reliability of the skeleton BML service, and being physically able to board crowded trains. As you know, the North Downs service is only hourly (and three coaches) from Gatwick.
 

Hophead

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I think you can do that via three buses:

Seaford to Brighton (frequent)
Brighton to Horsham (Stagecoach, hourly-ish)
Horsham to Guildford (Arriva, also hourly-ish, if I recall correctly)

But with connection time and busy roads, you should allow two hours for each leg - so hardly practical. Use of taxis for part of the trip would, of course, reduce the journey duration somewhat.

Another option might be Seaford to Brighton by bus, train to Gatwick then GWR to Guildford as usual. But then you'd be reliant upon the reliability of the skeleton BML service, and being physically able to board crowded trains. As you know, the North Downs service is only hourly (and three coaches) from Gatwick.

Route 17 (Brighton - Horsham) is half-hourly these days; journey time unpredictable with extra traffic. Metrobus 93 (hourly) to Dorking for train to Guildford is another option.

Alternatively, get one of the Metrobus services from Brighton to Crawley (271/2/3) for bus connection to Gatwick.

Hope you have reading material to catch up on.
 

RichardKing

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I think you can do that via three buses:

Seaford to Brighton (frequent)
Brighton to Horsham (Stagecoach, hourly-ish)
Horsham to Guildford (Arriva, also hourly-ish, if I recall correctly)

But with connection time and busy roads, you should allow two hours for each leg - so hardly practical. Use of taxis for part of the trip would, of course, reduce the journey duration somewhat.

Another option might be Seaford to Brighton by bus, train to Gatwick then GWR to Guildford as usual. But then you'd be reliant upon the reliability of the skeleton BML service, and being physically able to board crowded trains. As you know, the North Downs service is only hourly (and three coaches) from Gatwick.

And if you can't travel on the GWR service from Gatwick, you could travel up to Clapham Junction and catch a SWT service down to Guildford.
 
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ajb690

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From what i can gather, there will be no trains Seaford-Lewes, so you'll need to make your own way to Lewes. There is a train service Lewes-Brighton (see Southern's website for the timetable) and once at Brighton, you can catch one of the limited Southern services or a Thameslink/GatEx and head up to Gatwick for a connection to Guildford.

Don't forget that Lewes-Brighton trains will only run between 7.30am and 6pm, so there's no point in getting to Lewes before then and you'll have to complete your return journey by 6pm. GatEx and Thameslink aren't affected by this restriction, so it may be simpler to drive/bus it to Brighton or even Gatwick on Tuesday & Wednesday, or stay overnight in Guildford.

Good luck, and prepare for it all to happen again for 4 days next month.

drew
 

radamfi

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Some National Express services that may be of use:

Brighton - Gatwick - Heathrow
Brighton - Gatwick - Sutton - London

Also easyBus and Terravision operate between various parts of London and Gatwick.
 

skyeeloy34

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What's the chance of the strike being cancelled.

Are Southern & RMT going to ACAS on Monday?
 
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