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Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)
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I suspect ACAS will get involved but it would be a formality in any dispute these days. Doesn't guarantee anything. GTR have a day out in court to try and challenge the ballot but I've not heard or read a sniff about this approach.
GTR have made their position clear as per the government. The unions have made their position very clear on the proposals.
So I honestly think it's going to be a long and drawn out dispute with several strikes.
Possibly, I guess. But I'd be surprised if that happened (reminder: discussion on the other thread, please!) and even if it did, I can't see Southern being able to rearrange diagrams on the fly to accommodate.
TOCs should plan for zero guards turning up for work. Otherwise it would end up in complete chaos with stations getting overcrowded if they thought x amount of staff would turn in and didn't.
In my experience, TOCs are able to get a skeleton service together by giving managers a crash course in trains, max their working hours out and manage to somehow get a safety case for it. I won't go down that road on how it works as I don't want to start any arguments in this clean thread. I guess Southern have planned a contingency based on the number of these managers working and will stick to it, with the Brighton services getting the priority.
In my experience, TOCs are able to get a skeleton service together by giving managers a crash course in trains, max their working hours out and manage to somehow get a safety case for it. I won't go down that road on how it works as I don't want to start any arguments in this clean thread. I guess Southern have planned a contingency based on the number of these managers working and will stick to it, with the Brighton services getting the priority.
D1009
Established Member
Yes, but if the dispute does become protracted, the management should get an idea who is going to turn up for work and who isn't, and over the course of the dispute can increase the contingency plan accordingly. I repeat what others have said, comment on the rights and wrongs should be in the other thread.
CaptainHaddock
Established Member
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Does anyone know if trains will be running on the Caterham branch on Tuesday? Sorry to be a pain but my partner's down there visiting her family and we can't find any reference to that line on Southern's website.
I would have thought it would be fine as there hasn't been a guard down there for over 20 years
Bishopstone
Established Member
They will be running, but might be busier than usual if people use Caterham as a railhead instead of the closed Redhill-Tonbridge line stations, for example.
North of Purley, these trains (and all others) will be considerably busier than usual.
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There is no ticket acceptance with Brighton & Hove buses (routes 12, 29 etc).
I resorted to establishing this directly with the bus company. As of this morning, Southern themselves still don't know and are trying to 'find out' for me.
I presume the position with Metrobus to be identical.
causton
Established Member
I have read the latest staff briefing and two things I have not seen before is that all first class will be declassified on SN GX and TL south services and no bicycles will be accepted.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Seems sensible.
Good luck trying to getbin a service direct to Clapham Junction though. You'd be better going into Victoira and out if doing that. All services in peak that stop at Clapham Junction mostly come from East or West coast. It seems during the strike, all Brighton services in the peak to Victoria are Gatwick Expresses and those don't stop at Clapham Junction. Your OK outside of the peak though but that doesn't help if you need to get to work.
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At Haywards Heath station on Saturday the poster said services only running between 7.30am and 6pm. However the timetable suggests otherwise!
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I believe that's only for Southern services. Thameslink and GatEx are running as normal. But I've not checked the timetable...
I have and it shows SN services running after 6pm!
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Definitely sensible considering that trains will already be overcrowded.
They are. But will be incredibly busy.
I asked both Southern and Brighton and Hove Buses by Twitter, Southern replied not yet, the bus company that it may come tomorrow.
Now all I need to do is work out if I can put some credit on my Key and use it on the bus!
Why would you need to go via Redhill? There will be many more trains from East Croydon to Clapham Junction tomorrow than from East Croydon to Redhill.
I doubt anyone will be able to get on at East Croydon, it'll be too full and standing.
Bishopstone
Established Member
There have been a great many people - several dozen - asking about Brighton & Hove bus acceptance on the Southern Twitter feed today. Regulars have got accustomed to mutual acceptance during times of disruption: both on the railway and RTAs on the coast road.
If the decision is not to accept, then so be it, but I maintain this information should be published on the strike page of the website. If nothing else it might save a bit of time for bus drivers over the next 48 hours, having to repeatedly explain the non-acceptance to rail refugees who then fish for their £2.60 or whatever the cash fare is.
Given B&H, Metrobus and GTR all sit under one corporate roof, the non-acceptance should also be explained to customers. I presume there are potential issues with lack of capacity and regular bus users being unable to board, although that will still be a concern even with fares being charged.
On another matter, the webform for season ticket holders to apply for compensation will apparently be uploaded tomorrow. To set expectations, my last Delay Repay claim took almost three months to be processed.
causton
Established Member
I imagine this will be a bulk automatically approved thing, as they claim in the staff brief I have that "All compensation is paid in cashable travel vouchers which can be exchanged for cash at any GTR ticket office. Compensation is paid within 20 working days"!
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An interesting thing SN are doing; which almost surprises me; is the following:
"The TVM’s are programmed so that on the affected dates they will either not sell tickets at stations where there is no planned train service or a warning message at those stations with a revised service."
Why not take Tramlink to Wimbledon? Or Tramlink to West Croydon for an LO service to Canada Water?
Ok from Brighton the trains with limited stops will be loaded with 700 passengers. The Thameslink trains will be loaded with 200, the TL trains will then be loaded with 200 at Haywards Heath and a further 200 at Three Bridges. Don't forget there are TL trains which start from Three Bridges once peak is over, so Three Bridges will have additional TL trains towards London.
Searching the National Rail website just now brings up a full service from East Croydon to Victoria today.
True, there is a small yellow triangle next to services which if you click on tells you there is industrial action affecting services. Many will assume at the very least that the service displayed is intended to run and most won't notice the triangle anyway.
How can it be that on the day of the strike, the intended timetable hasn't been loaded and there isn't a clearer message concerning the strike? This just makes a bad situation worse, from the point of view of the travelling public.
True, there is a small yellow triangle next to services which if you click on tells you there is industrial action affecting services. Many will assume at the very least that the service displayed is intended to run and most won't notice the triangle anyway.
How can it be that on the day of the strike, the intended timetable hasn't been loaded and there isn't a clearer message concerning the strike? This just makes a bad situation worse, from the point of view of the travelling public.
Southern website states:
Southern tickets will also be accepted as part of any reasonable journey on the following operators:
Southeastern (Southern tickets will not be accepted on high speed services)
South West Trains
London Overground
London Midland
London Underground (this includes journeys between London Victoria, London Blackfriars, and London Bridge)
I would argue Havant to Clapham on SWT with a Southern only must surely be reasonable however SWT website says nothing about acceptance at all and they sent an email saying:
Tickets for Southern services in the affected areas will be valid on our trains between Southampton Central and Chichester via Fareham, between Portsmouth Harbour and Havant and between Dorking and Epsom.
So Southern say I can use SWT and SWT say I can't. Also SWT haven't run to Chichester for a few years!! I'm guessing a few excesses on the Pompey Direct today and probably from Southampton to Clapham too!
Southern tickets will also be accepted as part of any reasonable journey on the following operators:
Southeastern (Southern tickets will not be accepted on high speed services)
South West Trains
London Overground
London Midland
London Underground (this includes journeys between London Victoria, London Blackfriars, and London Bridge)
I would argue Havant to Clapham on SWT with a Southern only must surely be reasonable however SWT website says nothing about acceptance at all and they sent an email saying:
Tickets for Southern services in the affected areas will be valid on our trains between Southampton Central and Chichester via Fareham, between Portsmouth Harbour and Havant and between Dorking and Epsom.
So Southern say I can use SWT and SWT say I can't. Also SWT haven't run to Chichester for a few years!! I'm guessing a few excesses on the Pompey Direct today and probably from Southampton to Clapham too!
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LBSCR Times
Member
Not on my National Rail Journey Planner it doesn't.
Only trains that are running are currently shown.
But then there are still quite a few.
In any event, the timetable had already been uploaded yesterday.
My guess is they don't want thousands of commuters using morning services to get to work and then getting stranded with no way of getting home. Imagine if they ran a normal morning peak service and most people went to work as on a normal weekday. The chaos this evening would be quite something!
EC is within the London Metro DOO area, so there will be plenty of trains.
I'd of thought the answer to that was pretty obvious - if they don't know how many conductors are going to strike and how many are going to turn up for work, an exact timetable is a bit difficult to plan.
Details of the strike are posted on the SR website and other websites online, twitter app, station posters etc. They can provide information for people, they can't read it for them.
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