Inner suburban stations neglected

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Envy123, 22 May 2015.

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  1. Envy123

    Envy123 Member

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    As a regular commuter, I have noticed that GN local services from Welwyn/Hertford North to Moorgate are very much neglected, compared to outer suburban services.

    As a passenger, I feel disheartened and a bit ripped off that the GN locals have old and dirty trains (while the fast trains look better in comparison), low frequencies and are unlikely to get Thameslink services post 2018.

    I felt the same way with the route formerly run by National Express East Anglia (minus Thameslink), and it will be improved by LO when it takes over.

    Why does it only take a full LO takeover for things to improve on inner suburan routes? I feel tempted to move out of London to benefit from the better fast train services.
     
  2. Stompehh

    Stompehh Member

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    There is an ITT out to procure new 6-car fixed formation trains for Moorgate services. Due 2018.
     
    Last edited: 22 May 2015
  3. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Well the inner suburban gn services are getting brand new trains in 2018, welwyn suburban services will continue through Thameslink in 2018 and the service frequencies (3trains per hour off peak) are greater than the mainline frequency (2 trains per hour to Peterborough and Cambridge on the stoppers)

    I'd also point out that those living out of London whizzing past you on the mainlines pay far more than you do for their tickets.

    I don't think a LO takeover would make much difference to the GN in era anyway as the amount of trains it's possible to run is largely limited by track capacity-not something LO could change. Plus the suburbans will always have to play second to long distance mainline services on that route.
     
  4. Envy123

    Envy123 Member

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    I heard about the new trains proposal, as part of the new programme. But Thameslink is going to get new trains first, I think.

    Now I didn't know that Welwyn services will be a part of Thameslink. People on District Dave and London Reconnections unanimously said it's unlikely to happen and that there would only be a slightly increased Moorgate frequency and new trains. May I have a source for the GN locals going to Thameslink please? :)

    If I had a penny for every time I am left in the cold, waiting for me to get a train to or from New Southgate, look at the fast trains and wish "if only I lived in [insert destination here]", I'd probably be able to buy a PS4. My travel habits seem to suit longer-distance services, for some odd reason, so that's why I'm a bit jealous of the faster trains.
     
  5. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You'd be better off going to Arnos Grove and use LU, unless you want to go north, that is.
     
  6. Envy123

    Envy123 Member

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    I have the "if only I lived in Potters Bar/Hitchin" reasoning every time I see the fast trains, even if the next service to and from home is 5 minutes away. :)

    I also tend to avoid King's X at peak times, so if I need to go anywhere on the Northern Line Bank branch, the upper Circle between King's X and Liverpool Street and the Bank DLR connection in peak times, I favor New Southgate over Arnos Grove.
     
  7. hassaanhc

    hassaanhc Established Member

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    You are a short walk from Arnos Grove LUL ;) where you'll get stock a year older than the 313s, and those 73ts (entered service 1975) don't have any plans of replacement before the mid-2020s either :D. But because it is TfL involved there, people don't seem to get annoyed about old trains <D.

    Personally I reckon that the 313s are some of the better local stock in London, just look at the state of the 15 years newer Class 465/466 in South London.

    TfL takeover is also not a guarantee of a very high frequency service, although your line does seem to have a higher chance of an increase in frequency due to only having two branches that have to compete for resources from the main section, not different to the Piccadilly Line, but it is subject to finding turnaround space availability in London. South West London has 10 branches that compete for paths from the same main line.
     
  8. 450.emu

    450.emu Member

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    The 313's into Moorgate aren't bad :) Most of the stations are okay, but once in the tunnels after Drayton Park, yes, it does get a bit grim. If you want to see a depressing inner London station, take a trip to Maryland or Bethnal Green :) Let's see if TfL 'transform' those stations :roll:
     
  9. Envy123

    Envy123 Member

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    Over the past few years, I commuted to Stepney Green and I have to say that going from New Southgate is better. The other choices are going via crowded King's X, riding the very hot Central Line from Holborn to Mile End or changing twice.

    With other places, Arnos Grove is better. ;)

    The trains' windows are often dirty and there are no announcements about the next stations (then again, on Thameslink, they can get really annoying sometimes). But it always manages to stay at the correct temperature unlike LU deep tube stock which can sometimes be too hot for me.

    I've been to Bethnal Green, both of them. :) What I didn't like about the NR station was that it took ages to find it. Only a tiny sign actually pin-pointed it. And it was really in an awkward location. So, I agree that it is depressing.

    New Southgate is OK-ish. It's just a series of small open passageways which has a tiny ticket office and access to two platforms. Not sure if longer distance stations are like that, haven't seen pics of their exteriors so can't compare.
     
  10. ChiefPlanner

    ChiefPlanner Established Member

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    GN inner suburbans hae had a fair amount of 6 car sets put into service of late into the later part of the evening peak. (as the 3's were increasingly overcrowded after 1800)

    New trains should be on their way as part of the GTR franchise .....
     
  11. HLE 13

    HLE 13 Established Member

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    From May 2018 onwards... ;)
     
  12. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    The Thameslink new trains were being procured well before the decision to merge the franchises. So I don't think you can necessarily take the view that the Moorgate line stock should have been dealt with in the same timescales. As it turns out the new stock should arrive shortly after the full Thameslink timetable starts, but it seems to me that's just a coincidence.
     
  13. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Too fiddly to look for a source on my iPhone but have a look at the Thameslink route proposals. Still to be finalised but it seems to be Welwyn to caterham and Maidstone.
     
  14. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Not everywhere can have new trains at the same time, I'm afraid. On GN, the situation will get worse before it gets better as the 700s will come on stream before the new Moorgate units. When they do though, you'll then be able to sneer at the folks from Peterborough and the like on their 'dated' 3-4 year old trains!
     
  15. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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    I believe the Welwyn Thameslink services will be peak-only. Essentially the current semi-fast peak services to/from Kings Cross will run through Thameslink. The normal Welwyn all-stations service will continue to run to Moorgate as at present.
     
  16. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    And we'll sneer back at you with our Happy Trains - those which we are promised to keep for our semi-fast peaks :lol:
     
  17. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Although latest talk from management is that the 377s will become equally as common on peterborough runs.
     
  18. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    So what point is there in having the 377s instead of retaining the Class 365 fleet? OT I know, but I just don't get it.
     
  19. Envy123

    Envy123 Member

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    Looks like I need to move to Potters Bar, Hatfield or Welwyn to take advantage of direct Thameslink services and Moorgate locals...
     
  20. TheNewNo2

    TheNewNo2 Member

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    I've always liked the 313s out of Moorgate, though I will accept the interior is pretty bad. As for the route, the stations are generally in a terrible state, especially as the NR/TOC boundary is about 8ft off the ground and so that's where all the paint stops!
     
  21. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    Gangwayed, properly air conditioned, with a functional ASDO system and onboard cameras suitable for stations with short platforms north of Cambridge?
     
  22. 450.emu

    450.emu Member

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    Bowes Park is another odd one - with tiny ticket office. Bethnal Green is just depressing, walking through the black cab burial grounds to wait for a filthy 315 or 317 to stop and take you to Liverpool Street :roll:
     
  23. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I think the 313s are fine but need replacing as they have limited room inside due to the huge wasted area at each end (so 4 wasted areas on each 6 car train). They're comfortable, pretty reliable and usually clean which is all you really need. No air con, Wi-Fi, power sockets or toilets though. The replacements will have air conditioning, but not sure about the rest. Unlikely for the type of usage, although toilets would be nice.
     
  24. JaJaWa

    JaJaWa Established Member

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    Look at the plans. They will.
     
  25. ScotGG

    ScotGG Member

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    I doubt it will be for long with TfL now in charge. Better lighting and far more obvious signage will be seen asap I'd have thought. It's amazing how simple things like that havn't been done by TOCs and/or Network rail in many cases.

    And when on the tube map a much higher chance of developers waking up and realising its existence. Housing will take over the scrap yards, and some associated money could further do up the station.

    TfL takeovers tend to speed up the whole process of transformation. This is the western approach now https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5...!1e1!3m2!1sRbBYV3MsWI5XwCeTX_aewg!2e0!6m1!1e1
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2015
  26. hassaanhc

    hassaanhc Established Member

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    That is fair enough, sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at you :). The rant is really more at home in another current thread... :D.

    The thing with the auto announcements is, whenever they're fitted you get people complaining there are too many, yet this new trend I'm seeing is complaints about there being no auto announcements! :idea: Do agree with the hot stuffy nature of the deep tube, the Bakerloo is generally the worst but I've found the Jubilee very stuffy this year too (or maybe I've forgotten from last year :P). Air conditioning is good but there are times when you just want good old fashioned opening windows :D.
     
  27. Envy123

    Envy123 Member

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    Nothing to worry about :)

    I feel that the GN locals have excellent links to the City and East London can be reached by the ELL at Highbury and H&C line at Moorgate. On an unrelated note, many people commute to East London in the peaks. Where do they work?

    The Picc Line is better for the West End, other cross-London journeys and Heathrow IMO.

    When catching a semi-fast service to New Southgate, either I got very annoying announcements or virtually none at all. I prefer c2c's, LO's and AGA's auto-announcers as they're played at the right times. And I do dislike the stuffiness of tube trains, and this is why I much prefer NR to tube.

    Even if there's only 3tph, at least on the 313s I feel fine temp wise.
     
  28. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Auto announcers benefit the visually impaired and help everyone in a crowded train when you can't see out, so I hope people will stop moaning and just accept them.
     
  29. JaJaWa

    JaJaWa Established Member

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    There's not much that annoys me more than guards that will disable the PIS so they can make their own announcements.

    Yes you may prefer the sound of your own voice but there might be people on the train that can't hear and they're not going to have any idea what you're saying.
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2015
  30. Searle

    Searle Established Member

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    I'm more than happy keeping the 313s for another 10 years, just please give us at least one toilet per set and a semi fast service outside the peaks! :(
     
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