Instructor looking for train driving position

Discussion in 'Railway Jobs & Careers' started by InstructorPaul, 4 May 2015.

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  1. InstructorPaul

    InstructorPaul New Member

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    can anyone help me with this question? i have been a pcv instructor in london for 10 years and fancied getting the train drivers licence to add to list i have. is there a shorter training course i can go on because as an instructor with years of experience i will not require as much instruction that new drivers require and i cant survive on a trainee wage for a 12 months.

    many thanks paul.
     
  2. endemic

    endemic New Member

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    You have to undergo the same training as any trainee, also train driving licence isn't something you earn and keep in safe deposit, you got to stay competent by actual driving ... Hope it explains
     
  3. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    Whilst I am not a train driver, I am intimately familiar with the railway industry from a professional point of view and have as part of that worked with both many train drivers and also (replacement) bus drivers, the latter presumably coming under the PCV banner AFAIK. Train driving is a world apart from road vehicle driving / riding of any sort, and apart from concentration and reaction times, you would probably find little in the way of similarity between the theory of PCV and train driving, let alone the practical aspects. Train drivers for mainline companies will usually undergo circa 12 months of training, including Rule Book theory, emergency procedures, company-specific issues, traction training (technical training for types, ie. classes, of train) and route learning (memorising and being tested on driving according to every line feature, including stations, gradients, signal positions and hazards, signal box information, junction/tunnel/bridge/landmark names - you name it really!). Then, after a fair bit of experience (usually at the least a few years with a very good safety record) you would perhaps tentatively look to become an instructor. It's not possible to take proper shortcuts in any decent (read: now that ORR/NR have got to grips with it, all) mainline establishments these days unless you already have some sort of train driving qualification and just need to certify on traction or routes.

    Also, as above, competency and especially route knowledge must be refreshed and/or tested every few months unless there are very good reasons not to (eg. long-term sickness) - and in the latter case, you might need to partially re-qualify on some aspects.

    A more flexible option might be to look to become a member of one of the leading heritage railways, then volunteer and build up skills as train crew, though becoming a driver would still take a fair while - and you'd almost certainly be limited to heritage railway tracks and slower speeds, without full mainline competency.
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2015
  4. The North Briton

    The North Briton Member

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    I don't want to sound rude but, assuming your question is posed in all seriousness, you sound like someone who is about as far from an ideal candidate for a train driver's position as it is possible to get. All the drivers I know have had a serious, long term ambition to do the job and have been lucky enough to be selected from a huge pool of potential applicants. As has been explained above, training as a driver is not a simple box-ticking exercise which gives you a piece of paper to add to your cv. It requires a serious amount of commitment both from yourself and your employer. Think about it - who would invest the time and resources to train you over a 12 month period just on the off chance you might fancy doing it someday?
     
  5. Johncleesefan

    Johncleesefan Member

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    A fair bit of arrogance or possibly ignorance from the OPs comment. You would require exactly the same amount of instruction regardless of background. Have u driven a train before? Is a world apart from a bus. And you'd only be trained by a Toc with the intention of full time work
     
  6. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    :lol: <D
     
  7. class 9

    class 9 Member

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    Is this a wind up?
     
  8. DriverToBe

    DriverToBe Member

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    Must be a wind up because surely no body could be that arrogant about the skills needed to become a train driver
     
  9. scotraildriver

    scotraildriver Member

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    I used to be a PCV instructor. There are virtually no skills in that job that transfer to train driving, and certainly none that would allow you a "quicker course" I don't think you are grasping what a train drivers job entails.
     
  10. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Ah, ok. You don't need half the training many drivers need including those with 20+ years operational railway experience who know all about signalling, rules, PTS etc etc...all things you know absolutely nothing about?!

    Stick to what you do now, I doubt you'll last long on a driver course with that "I know most of it already" attitude, most like you don't...
     
  11. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    Hook, line and sinker.
     
  12. DriverToBe

    DriverToBe Member

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    I'm currently a PCV driver, I've done done a hell of a lot of research regarding driving trains and I'd like to think I have a basic understanding about many aspects of the role but wouldn't for a minute think that I've even scratched the surface of what's required. One thing I do know is a " I know it all attitude" wouldn't even probably get you past the application stage.
     
  13. Stigy

    Stigy Member

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    Saying something like this will not even get you past the application stage. I'm not a train driver but respect the complexity involved in driving a train. Have you even researched how the selection process works? Gotta be a wind up.
     
  14. InstructorPaul

    InstructorPaul New Member

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    thank you for your responses. this isn't a wind up. i just thought with my experience instructing and delivering training to drivers that there might be some way to skip a few basic steps of training - so an advanced class if you will. i am a quick study and can probably grasp concepts quicker than the average joe bloggs trainee driver. ultimately my intention is for the industry to benefit from my instruction skillset.
     
  15. E&W Lucas

    E&W Lucas Established Member

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    Your average Joe Bloggs trainee driver has mastered the basics of punctuation and written English. "A" Level standard of education is starting to be specified by some operators, and graduates are not uncommon.
     
  16. scaper28

    scaper28 Member

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    how would they benefit if you dont intend to actually do the job and just want the license? also how much are you earning now if you dont mind me asking?
     
  17. Unstoppable

    Unstoppable New Member

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    Guys, come on. Lets show a bit of respect for the original poster. Although to us who are well informed of the daily operations within train driving some people aren't as informed. The original poster showed a keen interest in helping the railway and only asked a few questions. To those without train driving experience the majority think you jump in the cab, turn the ignition and off you go with your foot on the accelerator. Lets put ourselves in the original posters shoes and show him us informed or those who work within the industry aren't people who make a mock of uniformed questions. After all we are here to help others and I know everyone has asked what could be deemed a silly question at least once in their life.
     
  18. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    Clearly a troll perhaps from another private members forum who are actively looking to troll this forum. ..
     
  19. DriverToBe

    DriverToBe Member

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    I do agree with you in a way but I think it is the way it was written the annoyed people.
     
  20. TDK

    TDK Established Member

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    Your average Joe Bloggs trainee driver has been selected from possibly over 300 applicants that renders them far from Joe Bloggs as you quaintly quoted. Stick to the training of HGV drivers as that is where your skills lie. Being a trainer is not a quality asset in the process of recruitment when it comes to train driving and the only way you will get a licence is to do the full training with a train operating company, pass all the assessments and be employed by them.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Sorry but respect earns respect and the comment that in the OP opinion that trainee drivers are just "Joe Bloggs" type of people is disrespectful - eye for an eye I am afraid
     
  21. Dave1987

    Dave1987 Established Member

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    I don't believe the OP was trying to be offensive in any way or troll, but it was quite a naïve post. You don't simply add being able to drive trains to your license like you do with a road license. The OP may well once trained be a great train driver but to believe because you train people in how to drive road vehicles means that you can take a 'short' course in how to drive trains is woefully wrong. Just like with those of us who drive trains for a living doesn't mean we can just hop into an articulated 40 tonne lorry have a couple of quick lessons and then be qualified and safe to drive them.

    If you want to drive trains InstructorPaul, apply for a trainee vacancy and go through the motions. Although I wouldn't suggest to them that because you are a PCV instructor you will take less time to train.
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2015
  22. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    There are no basic steps of training which would really bear any resemblance to anything related to PCV instructing. "Concepts" to which you refer are totally alien to road vehicle safety - for example, personal track safety (PTS) has a lot of unique terminology and rules which could seem absurd in a highways environment. In fact, PTS is one of the "basic steps of training". Likewise with the rest of the relevant bits of the railway Rule Book.

    As above, there is NO WAY you would be able to skip ANY steps without existing train driving knowledge. Even those who have previously driven on differing rail systems - for example, trams vs Network Rail routes - would need to relearn theory in pretty much its entirety. Even the practical side of getting a train to start and stop in the right place, react to incidents etc. would be significantly different.
     
  23. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    All we do is push a few buttons, pull a couple of levers and that's it isn't it? ;)

    Anyone remember that post a few years ago where the OP thought we programmed the computer and then let that do all the driving? :roll:
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    So what bits do you know and therefore can skip?
    A nice brief list will do but please cover all the relevant bits!
    That is one of the basic requirements to becoming a trainee driver so is nothing special!
    Whats one of them then?
    How many trainee train drivers (or qualified train drivers) do you know or have spoken to in depth about what is required to be a train driver?
    So kind of you! :roll:
    You really do think you are something special don't you! :lol:
    It might surprise you to know that the railway has managed to train up several thousand drivers without you and your arrogant attitude wouldn't even get you through the initial sift never mind to interview!

    A few bits of your knowledge might be relevant but you certainly wont know 10% of what you think you know about our job.

    Before going train driving I was a train guard (same company) and already knew (properly) about half the rules relevant to train driving, guess what, I had to do the full course because there are no short cuts!
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2015
  24. Dave1987

    Dave1987 Established Member

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    There is one way you can put it to show how different the two are. When you qualify to be able to drive a Coach or a HGV, that means you can drive a coach or a HGV anywhere in the country straight off the bat. With train driving you are passed out to drive specific types of trains over a specified routes that you have learnt and signed to say that you feel you are competent over that route. If you want to drive trains in a different part of the country, you have to learn that route, and then be tested on your knowledge of that route before you are allowed to drive any train there.
     
  25. Class2ldn

    Class2ldn Member

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    As someone who drives both hgvs and trains I can tell you now if you think there is any similarity in the training needed for the two professions then you are very much mistaken.
    1 week for an hgv and 1 year for a driver, an hgv trainer doesn't even need a qualification to teach unlike a car instructor, a train driver will not be allowed to instruct until they have a good base of knowledge and the skills to help someone else.
    If you think you can skip all that and start showing trainees how to drive a train then you're dreaming.
    You may have good teaching skills but that's means nothing without experiencing the job and undertaking the training needed just to get a job as a driver.

    Forgot to call wah anyway but just incase he is serious lol
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2015
  26. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    He has stated that he knows loads about our job and so is able to skip a lot of the training requirements, if he wants respect then he needs to earn it and coming on here with such a naive and ignorant attitude isn't the way to do it.

    We have shown him as much respect as he has shown for our job!
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2015
  27. DriverToBe

    DriverToBe Member

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    I'm not a driver (yet) but well said!
     
  28. InstructorPaul

    InstructorPaul New Member

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    In other industries there are intensive courses available to those who have the aptitude to complete it in a shorter time. For example there used to be an intensive week of training to gain PCV license. Some postgraduate degrees can be taken in 1 year rather than 2. I just thought there might be something similar for train drivers as when learning anything some students learn quicker than others. If no advanced course exists then fair enough.
     
  29. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    But you need that aptitude to complete the drivers course as it stands now!
    You can look on the present course as an intensive course because it is, if you tried to tailor a course for "the average Joe Bloggs" then it would probably take 2 or 3 years to get them to the required standard, although to be honest (and this is going to sound rather pompous so I apologise in advance) they probably wouldn't complete the course because they would have forgotten a lot of the stuff they learnt at the beginning.

    Not everyone has the aptitude to become a train driver, that is the part you are not getting.
     
    Last edited: 17 May 2015
  30. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    The thing is that the majority of trainees have the same level of qualifications and experience as you do. What you have is nothing special compared to most trainees who have come from a similar background as yourself or are already in operational railway roles.

    But road qualifications arnt transferable to the railway as the signalling systems, rules, infrastructure, traction etc is all unique to the railway. Railway signals are not the same thing as road traffic lights. Railway rules are not in any way similar to the Highway Code etc.

    So your qualifications and instructor experience are not transferable on the way you think they may be. It will certainly look good on your application and put you ahead of other candidates but beyond that won't make you any different to any one else. You will still need all the training anyone else would.
     
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