Intention to prosecute letter

[hannah123]

Hello

I'm new on here so I'm sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place. I did see other had posted in here about the letter but my reason is a little different to ones I've read already. Hope someone can put my mind at ease..

I bought a train ticket from Brighton to Clapham Junction however the train went into Victoria so I did what I often do and stayed on the train to just buy a tube ticket when we arrived at Victoria. We've done this many times and the inspectors and ticket booth staff always check our tickets from Brighton then issue us tube tickets. However this time we had someone take all of our details, asking if we could pay the fine there and then or if not, any of the fine. We had no other money except for the tube tickets so we said we had nothing on us & to send it to our address.

13 days later we have received a 'notice of intention to prosecute'. Can they really take me to court over this?? I had no intention to avoid paying my tube ticket and their staff have always let us through before and never once said we were doing anything wrong (in case you're unsure, the tube ticket would be the correct ticket needed from Clapham to Victoria stn). We had no idea we could be in trouble for this and we went right to the ticket booth from the train to buy tube tickets (which the staff didn't even look at and let us through...!)

We were asked questions from a form like "where does your journey end?" but the inspector filled this out to say Victoria even though I told him repeatedly we were ending our journey in Picadilly (we have proof we were always heading there too) but he wouldn't let me edit the form. He also asked me "if I hadn't stopped you, would you have not paid the fine?" so I said yes, upon signing I saw the question was "not paid your fare" so be asked the question wrong but wouldn't let me change the answer or edit at all!

Long post! Sorry about that, hopefully you can shed some light on whether I should have received a fine in the post rather than a straight forward "taking you to court" letter or whether I should refuse to pay as, as far as I was aware I wasn't doing anything wrong and never intended to avoid paying for my journey.

Thanks in advance

 

[district]

A tube ticket from Clapham Jn to Victoria? I don't understand?

 

[Intermodal]

Am I understanding this correctly that you usually continue on the Brighton to Victoria train on a Brighton to Clapham Junction ticket and then buy a Clapham Junction to Victoria tube ticket when you arrive?

 

[radamfi]

Perhaps Hannah means 'In-boundary Travelcard' (probably Zones 1-2) when she says 'tube ticket'. Perhaps she didn't know that it was possible to get a combined train ticket plus Travelcard i.e. 'Outboundary Travelcard'.

 

[yorkie]

I bought a train ticket from Brighton to Clapham Junction however the train went into Victoria so I did what I often do and stayed on the train to just buy a tube ticket when we arrived at Victoria. We've done this many times and the inspectors and ticket booth staff always check our tickets from Brighton then issue us tube tickets.

I'm confused by this. What do you mean by "buy a tube ticket"?

LU paper tickets are extremely expensive.

If you wish to use a ticket from Brighton to Clapham in conjunction with Oyster PAYG then you would need to alight at Clapham Junction and touch in there.

If you wish to buy a Travelcard, why do you not buy this from Brighton?

Exactly what tickets did you intend to buy?

However this time we had someone take all of our details, asking if we could pay the fine there and then or if not, any of the fine. We had no other money except for the tube tickets so we said we had nothing on us & to send it to our address.

You were not asked to pay a fine. Do you mean a Penalty Fare?

13 days later we have received a 'notice of intention to prosecute'. Can they really take me to court over this??

If you were caught beyond Clapham Junction, then yes.

I had no intention to avoid paying my tube ticket and their staff have always let us through before and never once said we were doing anything wrong (in case you're unsure, the tube ticket would be the correct ticket needed from Clapham to Victoria stn).

What ticket did you intend to purchase?

If you started your journey at a staffed station then you had opportunity to purchase the ticket there.

We had no idea we could be in trouble for this and we went right to the ticket booth from the train to buy tube tickets (which the staff didn't even look at and let us through...!)

I don't understand where this reference to tube tickets comes from, and why you think a "tube ticket" is required for the last portion of the journey from Clapham Junction?

Southern operate a Penalty Fare policy, therefore it is compulsory to buy tickets - where facilities exist - before boarding.

We were asked questions from a form like "where does your journey end?" but the inspector filled this out to say Victoria even though I told him repeatedly we were ending our journey in Piccadilly (we have proof we were always heading there too) but he wouldn't let me edit the form.

I doubt that matters; you were still caught going 'over distance' travelling beyond the destination on your ticket, despite having opportunity to buy the ticket(s) you needed.

He also asked me "if I hadn't stopped you, would you have not paid the fine?" so I said yes, upon signing I saw the question was "not paid your fare" so be asked the question wrong but wouldn't let me change the answer or edit at all!

Did he really say that? "not paid the fine"? If so then that is dodgy, however it's your word against his, and it would be for a Court to decide, if it gets that far...

Long post! Sorry about that, hopefully you can shed some light on whether I should have received a fine in the post rather than a straight forward "taking you to court" letter or whether I should refuse to pay as, as far as I was aware I wasn't doing anything wrong and never intended to avoid paying for my journey.

Thanks in advance

Only a court can issue a fine; you can't be issued a fine by an inspector.

You could offer to settle out of court, if this is a first offence they may accept that.
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A tube ticket from Clapham Jn to Victoria? I don't understand?

I am guessing she means a Travelcard.

No mention of any Railcards or group discounts were mentioned, so assuming no discounts, and it isn't clear what time the journey was made, but assuming off-peak travel, the Brighton to London Zones 1-6 Travelcard fare is £27.10. This compares with a return to Clapham Jn at £20.70. A London Zones 1-2 Travelcard would then be required at a price of £6.60, bringing the total to £27.30, so it costs 20p more to buy this combination of tickets.

Therefore I am struggling to understand what the purpose of buying tickets in London was, and I am also struggling to understand why the tickets were not bought at Brighton.

 

[FGWman]

The problem you have is you bought a ticket from Brighton to Clapham Junction but then went on to Victoria. Why did you do that ?

You could have bought a ticket to Victoria but you did not so. The train company believe you have attempted to avoid paying the fare from Clapham Junction to Victoria and have sent you an intention to prosecute letter. From the facts as you state them at the moment they have a good case so you will need to write a good letter explaining your actions.

At the moment I am afraid you are not making much sense. You talk about buying a tube ticket when arriving at Victoria but Clapham Junction to Victoria is not on the tube. I think you need to explain a bit more about why you bought the ticket you did and what ticket you wanted to buy at Victoria.

 

[richw]

Clapham junction is in zone 2, so do you mean you wished to basically buy a further ticket on board, to what you already held.
I'm pretty certain the OP excesses her brighton to clapham to include zone 1/2 etc on board, or even buys a seperate travelcard normally on board. I cant see why this is an issue if she tried before the train arrived at Clapham.

 

[FGWman]

Clapham junction is in zone 2, so do you mean you wished to basically buy a further ticket on board, to what you already held.
I'm pretty certain the OP excesses her brighton to clapham to include zone 1/2 etc on board, or even buys a seperate travelcard normally on board. I cant see why this is an issue if she tried before the train arrived at Clapham.

This is not relevant to the discussion as the OP had already passed Clapham Junction.

 

[richw]

This is not relevant to the discussion as the OP had already passed Clapham Junction.

yes sorry misread that she waited until Victoria to buy the extra ticket. If she had done so before arrival at Clapham, would that then be ok?

 

[Intermodal]

yes sorry misread that she waited until Victoria to buy the extra ticket. If she had done so before arrival at Clapham, would that then be ok?

Yes it would be okay.

 

[hannah123]

My intention was to continue to Picadilly circus so I would have needed to buy an underground ticket for that journey. Whether I paid for that ticket at Clapham, or Victoria it would have cost me the same price so I wasn't trying to avoid paying anything. If I was trying to avoid paying, my first move would have been to sneak through the gate as they never check! Not walk up showing my Brighton-Clapham ticket and asking to purchase the zones 1-2 underground.

So is the letter issued because I continued further "with no intention to pay" or because I didn't pay beforehand?

I didn't actually know you could purchase underground tickets from stations other than where there were undergrounds, hence not buying in Brighton.

I continued to Victoria from Clapham as I didn't realise it would matter as I would have paid for a tube ticket in Clapham and done the same journey anyway. I had no idea this was an offence to do as I've done it many times before and no-one has said it was wrong.

He did ask "not pay the fine" I think it was just a mistake on his part but to not let me edit the answer at all wasn't fair. There was a staff member at the ticket booth who apologised to us after he left and said she would have just sold us the tickets as she usually does. So she might be able to be a witness to that being asked wrong if needed.

 

[mallard]

From the sounds of it, the OP bought a Brighton-Clapham Junction ticket, intending to buy a Travelcard or Zone 1-2 single at Victoria to cover the journey between Clapham and Piccadilly Circus, possibly not knowing that a through ticket could be bought for the whole journey.

The OP has done this before without issue, but on this occasion was stopped by a RPI who unhelpfully used the word "fine" instead of "fare" and possibly mis-interpreted the answers given by the OP and ignored her challenges to those questions.

Unfortunately, you are supposed to buy a ticket before travelling, so I expect a PF would be appropriate here. Prosecution may however fail as the law requires "intent" to avoid paying the fare which, if the OP is being truthful, was not present here. Personally, I'd still recommend taking any out-of-court settlement offered though.

I am not a lawyer or fares expert, but this is my understanding.

 

[AlterEgo]

My intention was to continue to Picadilly circus so I would have needed to buy an underground ticket for that journey. Whether I paid for that ticket at Clapham, or Victoria it would have cost me the same price so I wasn't trying to avoid paying anything.

But you had no ticket between Clapham Junction and Victoria.

There is also no Underground station at Clapham Junction, so I'm a little confused as to why you think you need an "Underground ticket"...

 

[hannah123]

From the sounds of it, the OP bought a Brighton-Clapham Junction ticket, intending to buy a Travelcard or Zone 1-2 single at Victoria to cover the journey between Clapham and Piccadilly Circus, possibly not knowing that a through ticket could be bought for the whole journey.

The OP has done this before without issue, but on this occasion was stopped by a RPI who unhelpfully used the word "fine" instead of "fare" and possibly mis-interpreted the answers given by the OP and ignored her challenges to those questions.

Unfortunately, you are supposed to buy a ticket before travelling, so I expect a PF would be appropriate here. Prosecution may however fail as the law requires "intent" to avoid paying the fare which, if the OP is being truthful, was not present here. Personally, I'd still recommend taking any out-of-court settlement offered though.

I am not a lawyer or fares expert, but this is my understanding.

This is exactly what happened! Phew, glad you made sense of my posts! No intention of avoiding the ticket cost as I needed it to get on the underground. Thanks a lot for your advice
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And thanks Mallard for not being condescending!

 

[yorkie]

My intention was to continue to Picadilly circus so I would have needed to buy an underground ticket for that journey.Whether I paid for that ticket at Clapham, or Victoria it would have cost me the same price so I wasn't trying to avoid paying anything.

Again, I ask, what ticket exactly, and for what price, did you intend to purchase, and have you purchased in the past?

If I was trying to avoid paying, my first move would have been to sneak through the gate as they never check! Not walk up showing my Brighton-Clapham ticket and asking to purchase the zones 1-2 underground.

That much is in your favour, I am surprised you are being prosecuted for approaching staff with such a request. I would have thought they'd ask you to pay a Penalty Fare of £20.

So is the letter issued because I continued further "with no intention to pay" or because I didn't pay beforehand?

It sounds like you are being prosecuted because you declined an opportunity to buy the ticket(s) at your origin, and then travelled beyond the destination on your ticket, on a train that is advertised as a Penalty Fare train, boarding at a Penalty Fare station, where it is mandatory to buy tickets for the full journey before boarding the train, where facilities exist.

I didn't actually know you could purchase underground tickets from stations other than where there were undergrounds, hence not buying in Brighton.

I'm not sure you can get an individual "Underground ticket" from a National Rail station (I don't understand why anyone would want to), but a paper LU ticket would:
a) be very expensive (£4 per single journey); and
b) not cover your journey between Clapham Jn & Victoria anyway.

Are you sure you do mean an Underground ticket, and not a Travelcard?

Do you have any of the tickets you bought in the past, and can you tell us what is printed on them, and what the price is?

I continued to Victoria from Clapham as I didn't realise it would matter as I would have paid for a tube ticket in Clapham and done the same journey anyway.

Again, I ask what ticket would you have bought exactly? Admitting having done it in the past doesn't assist your case.

I had no idea this was an offence to do as I've done it many times before and no-one has said it was wrong.

That isn't a valid defence in law.

He did ask "not pay the fine" I think it was just a mistake on his part but to not let me edit the answer at all wasn't fair. There was a staff member at the ticket booth who apologised to us after he left and said she would have just sold us the tickets as she usually does. So she might be able to be a witness to that being asked wrong if needed.

Possibly. Did you get her name? There are a huge number of staff at a station like Victoria.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Prosecution may however fail as the law requires "intent" to avoid paying the fare which, if the OP is being truthful, was not present here.

Unfortunately that is wrong. Byelaws 18 and 19 allow for a strict liability prosecution which means no intent needs to be proven. The fact that you have committed the offence is enough to prosecute, whatever the reasons for it.

Having said that, I am not aware (that isn't to say it hasn't happened though) of a case where a TOC has prosecuted like that. Perhaps Flamingo/First Class/Ferret could confirm if they know of cases prosecuted under the byelaws?

A RRA 1889 prosecution does require intent to be proven.

 

[MikeWh]

My intention was to continue to Picadilly circus so I would have needed to buy an underground ticket for that journey. Whether I paid for that ticket at Clapham, or Victoria it would have cost me the same price so I wasn't trying to avoid paying anything. If I was trying to avoid paying, my first move would have been to sneak through the gate as they never check! Not walk up showing my Brighton-Clapham ticket and asking to purchase the zones 1-2 underground.

So is the letter issued because I continued further "with no intention to pay" or because I didn't pay beforehand?

I didn't actually know you could purchase underground tickets from stations other than where there were undergrounds, hence not buying in Brighton.

I continued to Victoria from Clapham as I didn't realise it would matter as I would have paid for a tube ticket in Clapham and done the same journey anyway. I had no idea this was an offence to do as I've done it many times before and no-one has said it was wrong.

He did ask "not pay the fine" I think it was just a mistake on his part but to not let me edit the answer at all wasn't fair. There was a staff member at the ticket booth who apologised to us after he left and said she would have just sold us the tickets as she usually does. So she might be able to be a witness to that being asked wrong if needed.

OK. You've learnt a lesson today. It's not ok to stay on a train beyond the validity of the ticket you hold. You've also found out that for a little less than you were going to pay you could actually get a ticket that gave you unlimited travel within the whole of the London zonal area. Perhaps an important thing to understand is that the "underground ticket" is actually a "travelcard" and is valid for use on buses, trains, tubes and dlr. It may be that when you first did this it was actually cheaper to do Brighton to Clapham Junction and then zone 1-2 travelcard, but it isn't now.

Onto your letter. Is it asking for your version of events? If it is then you should reply with your version of events. You should include an apology and a promise not to do it again. There are some people on here who will help you draft what to say, We will need you to make 5 posts so that we can communicate via the PM system (you've made 2 already, but they can't be one after the other in the same thread as adjacent posts get merged). There's no guarantee of the outcome, but if what you've said so far is the truth then there is every possibilty that it can be settled without prosecution.

 

[clagmonster]

If you still have any previous tickets that you have purchased at Victoria in the same situation, I would advise that you keep them, together with any Brighton-Clapham tickets you have in your possession. They might come in useful later.
It may also be useful to obtain the CCTV footage of you approaching the excess fares window. I'm not sure how you'd go about this but the station is operated by Network Rail so they're probably a good place to start.

 

[yorkie]

From the sounds of it, the OP bought a Brighton-Clapham Junction ticket, intending to buy a Travelcard or Zone 1-2 single at Victoria to cover the journey between Clapham and Piccadilly Circus, possibly not knowing that a through ticket could be bought for the whole journey.

But is a LU Zone 1-2 single fare valid for a Clapham Jn to Victoria? I don't see how it is, so the OP is invalid for this section of journey...

The OP has done this before without issue, but on this occasion was stopped by a RPI who unhelpfully used the word "fine" instead of "fare" and possibly mis-interpreted the answers given by the OP and ignored her challenges to those questions.

.... and that could be the problem. If the OP is admitting to several incidents of travelling between Brighton & central London and being invalid (or, in other words, to use a term used by RPIs, "using a doughnut - with a bit missing in the middle) between Clapham Jn and Victoria, there is an admission of several incidents of failing to pay the correct fare. Southern may wish to recover this debt and take action.

Unfortunately, you are supposed to buy a ticket before travelling, so I expect a PF would be appropriate here. Prosecution may however fail as the law requires "intent" to avoid paying the fare which, if the OP is being truthful, was not present here. Personally, I'd still recommend taking any out-of-court settlement offered though.

I am not a lawyer or fares expert, but this is my understanding.

I agree that it would not be appropriate to prosecute for this particular journey, however if the OP has admitted to using a "doghnut" combination of tickets for previous journeys, that is grounds for them to prosecute.

 

[clagmonster]

I suspect that the OP has been buying either a Travelcard or a Clapham-Zone U12* Londn at Victoria, not a 'doughnut'.
Hannah, please could you, if you still have one, tell us what is normally printed on the ticket you purchase at Victoria or if you don't still have one the approximate price and validity it gives you (ie does it give you a single or return on the Underground). Does it normally work the ticket barrier at Victoria BR station as well as the Underground barrier?

 

[RJ]

The terms Travelcard and "tube ticket" are used interchangably by many customers, in case anyone in this thread hadn't figured it out.

 

[All Line Rover]

But is a LU Zone 1-2 single fare valid for a Clapham Jn to Victoria? I don't see how it is, so the OP is invalid for this section of journey...

I am of the impression that the OP was planning to purchase a Zones 1-2 Travelcard. This would cover them for the section of journey between Clapham Junction and Victoria (only if, of course, the ticket was purchased beforehand!).

If this was the case, I'm sure that Southern will be reasonable about the matter if they receive an apology (and a promise not to do the same thing again). Remarkably, a Brighton to Clapham Junction SDR is £1 more expensive than a Brighton to London Terminals SDR! Advance tickets are the same price to either station. If the OP frequently travels to Victoria, I do find it slightly odd that she purchased a ticket to Clapham Junction though.

 

[yorkie]

I suspect that the OP has been buying either a Travelcard or a Clapham-Zone U12* Londn at Victoria, not a 'doughnut'.

Possibly. mallard's theory could be correct (in which case the prosecution could be very serious for the OP, especially if previous incidents were mentioned), or your theory could be correct (in which case the OP has not only been risking a Penalty Fare or worse on numerous occasions but has also been spending more money than a Travelcard from Brighton!) however we do not have sufficient information.

To the OP: What offence exactly are you being prosecuted for? Did you admit to making previous journeys on this combination? Can you find out what tickets you bought in the past? What time did you travel? How much did you pay before?

 

[hannah123]

To be honest, I've always just bought my tickets like this, I don't travel there often, maybe once every month or every other month so maybe have spent more this way...which could be why I've never been informed in the past! My tickets were just to travel from Brighton - Clapham as I didn't know (having never done it before) you could buy a ticket from the train station in Brighton for LU.

Didn't get the girl at the ticket booth's name but if it went to court I could probably find out from N.Rail, I'm sure they'd help by telling me her name and also that she would risk her job... :-/

The letter is asking for my version of events yeah, so should I mention the previous times or not say? Previously the staff have let me through the gate to the ticket machines rather than the excess fare office.

Thanks for all of the helpful comments Really appreciate it.

Post #3
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am of the impression that the OP was planning to purchase a Zones 1-2 Travelcard. This would cover them for the section of journey between Clapham Junction and Victoria (only if, of course, the ticket was purchased beforehand!).

If this was the case, I'm sure that Southern will be reasonable about the matter if they receive an apology (and a promise not to do the same thing again). Remarkably, a Brighton to Clapham Junction SDR is £1 more expensive than a Brighton to London Terminals SDR! Advance tickets are the same price to either station. If the OP frequently travels to Victoria, I do find it slightly odd that she purchased a ticket to Clapham Junction though.

This is the case, I was and did purchase a zone 1-2 travelcard which would have covered that part of the journey. It wasn't to save any money (as everyone has pointed out I've spent more this way) it was just as I've always done this since I was going to London 10 years ago as it was how I thought you had to buy underground tickets.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I had no idea this was an offence to do as I've done it many times before and no-one has said it was wrong.

That isn't a valid defence in law.

But could it be an indication that Southern aren't following the Penalty Fare rules? I thought that if a passenger was being sold a ticket under situations where a penalty fare should apply, but being charged the normal fare instead (either out of leniency or because the staff member isn't trained to deal in penalty fares) then they were supposed to be given some kind of written warning that they could have been charged a penalty fare, so they'd know what to do the next time?

 

[MikeWh]

Didn't get the girl at the ticket booth's name but if it went to court I could probably find out from N.Rail, I'm sure they'd help by telling me her name and also that she would risk her job... :-/

I'm not sure she'd risk her job as she was allowing you to pay what you owed. It might have been helpful if she'd explained what you were doing wrong though ... but never mind now.

The letter is asking for my version of events yeah, so should I mention the previous times or not say? Previously the staff have let me through the gate to the ticket machines rather than the excess fare office.

My gut feeling is to mention the previous times. You can stress that you now realise that it was wrong, but the bottom line is that you did pay the fare for the travel that you made on each occasion, so there is no loss to the railway.

Thanks for all of the helpful comments Really appreciate it.

Post #3
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You're welcome. As you see, post 4 became part of post 3 ...

This is the case, I was and did purchase a zone 1-2 travelcard which would have covered that part of the journey. It wasn't to save any money (as everyone has pointed out I've spent more this way) it was just as I've always done this since I was going to London 10 years ago as it was how I thought you had to buy underground tickets.

Assuming you are travelling off-peak (after about 9am from Brighton) you have two options. You can either buy a Brighton to London zones 1-6 travelcard for £27.10 or an FCC only Brighton to London zones 1-6 travelcard for £20.00. The more expensive ticket allows you to use any train between Brighton and London while the cheaper version limits you to the First Capital Connect services between Brighton and East Croydon. Once at East Croydon you can change onto a Victoria train because you are then in the zonal area and can use any train. Or you could continue to London Bridge and get the Underground from there. You would also need to be on an FCC train for the way home beyond East Croydon.

Hope that helps make future journeys less painful.

 

[hannah123]

Thanks for that MikeWH. And thanks to everyone for their input on this, will write back their responce once I hear from them.

Thank you all

 

[yorkie]

To be honest, I've always just bought my tickets like this, I don't travel there often, maybe once every month or every other month so maybe have spent more this way...which could be why I've never been informed in the past! My tickets were just to travel from Brighton - Clapham as I didn't know (having never done it before) you could buy a ticket from the train station in Brighton for LU.

You can buy an inclusive ticket to any LU station from any station. You can get inclusive Travelcards from any station that is in the railways South East area, and separate Travelcards can be issued from any staffed station and by any commercial on-board staff.

Didn't get the girl at the ticket booth's name but if it went to court I could probably find out from N.Rail, I'm sure they'd help by telling me her name and also that she would risk her job... :-/

I think it would be Southern and you'd need to be quite specific about where and when you saw her, but hopefully it won't come to that.

The letter is asking for my version of events yeah, so should I mention the previous times or not say? Previously the staff have let me through the gate to the ticket machines rather than the excess fare office.

In this case, yes.

Had you bought a LU only ticket from Victoria then I'd have said no, but as you were buying Travelcards I agree with MikeWh that it is to your benefit.

Thanks for all of the helpful comments Really appreciate it.

No problem. We can assist to make sure you are clear about what happened so that Southern can hopefully drop the case.

This is the case, I was and did purchase a zone 1-2 travelcard which would have covered that part of the journey. It wasn't to save any money (as everyone has pointed out I've spent more this way) it was just as I've always done this since I was going to London 10 years ago as it was how I thought you had to buy underground tickets.

Yes, that's strong evidence in your favour. Did you keep all the tickets for your last journey? This is proof of valid tickets being purchased (though admittedly not being held at the time of inspection) which should demonstrate there is no loss to the company.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But could it be an indication that Southern aren't following the Penalty Fare rules? I thought that if a passenger was being sold a ticket under situations where a penalty fare should apply, but being charged the normal fare instead (either out of leniency or because the staff member isn't trained to deal in penalty fares) then they were supposed to be given some kind of written warning that they could have been charged a penalty fare, so they'd know what to do the next time?

If an inspector ever issued the ticket on board it may be on the stock that has the warning on the back of the ticket. Barrier staff will not have ticket machines so have only really got 2 options: 1) pass the passengers over to revenue staff to be sold a fare (most likely a Penalty Fare) or 2) let the customer through the barrier. If there are no revenue staff around I don't think they have much choice. Is there a requirement for barrier staff to hand out warnings or give a verbal warning? I don't know.

 

[First class]

Southern actually is the industry leader for S.18 prosecutions, although I only know statistics, not the circumstances. We're talking around 2000 per year.
Another 1000 or so for other offences.

My advice is, that because you are in breach of the byelaws, and despite whatever you say on here, the statement of witness will be accurate, (and usually people tend to panic and say things to RPIs), you probably did incriminate yourself, possibly without knowing it. (Especially something like "I do it all the time, never had a problem before etc etc).

Any way, best way to make it disappear is sending Southern an apology for the confusion around the situation and £100, but make it clear the £100 is to cover any "administrative costs" caused by your genuine mistake. Don't outright admit liability. They may ask you to sign a "reprimand" which is not anything binding, basically a record of your one chance.

The side issue of Penalty Fares/other staff:
Any tickets being sold in a Penalty Fare area require the conductor/station staff selling the ticket to ensure you are aware that you could be liable for a penalty fare if stopped. Written or verbal is fine. Merseyrail got the right idea and just stopped selling on board.

 

[transportphoto]

Alight at Brighton and touch in there

You need to edit that and then delete this

TP