Inter city standing

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bluealley

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During the 80s/to mid 90s, I probably had to stand more than I sat when travelling between Peterborough to Durham/Newcastle on Inter city. When the class 91 started, at least they had seats in the corridor.
 
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gimmea50anyday

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The flip-up seats beside the doors which were more a pain than of any use as people sitting in them were in the way of people boarding and alighting.

The vestibules still have a seating area of sorts with the perch seats opposite the toilets. Still, doesnt fundamentally deal with the overcrowding these services face on a regular basis...
 

Peter Mugridge

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I recall once having to stand for the whole way between Glasgow and Euston in InterCity days with Mk2 stock..... :mad:
 

yorksrob

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The flip-up seats beside the doors which were more a pain than of any use as people sitting in them were in the way of people boarding and alighting.

The vestibules still have a seating area of sorts with the perch seats opposite the toilets. Still, doesnt fundamentally deal with the overcrowding these services face on a regular basis...

I think the flip up seats should have been retained. Certainly on the 158's which still have them, people always seem to stand up to let people out in my experience. For me, the perch wouldn't be much good for London - Peterborough for example.
 

Bevan Price

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The flip-up seats beside the doors which were more a pain than of any use as people sitting in them were in the way of people boarding and alighting.

The vestibules still have a seating area of sorts with the perch seats opposite the toilets. Still, doesnt fundamentally deal with the overcrowding these services face on a regular basis...

One cause is that on most services, too high a percentage of seats is for 1st class rather than standard class passengers.
 

Senex

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Still, doesnt fundamentally deal with the overcrowding these services face on a regular basis...
If that's happening, doesn't it imply a failure of the yield-management system? If that is working properly, then shouldn't all the prices on those services be high enough to ensure that there is no overcrowding, with those who won't pay being forced towards less crowded services?

[NB I personally do not approve or like that sort of railway, that wants to play at being an airline all the time rather than cater for the travel-needs of a modern, mobile society. But that's what we've got, so why don't we make it work?]
 

lincolnshire

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I think the flip up seats should have been retained. Certainly on the 158's which still have them, people always seem to stand up to let people out in my experience. For me, the perch wouldn't be much good for London - Peterborough for example.

The 4 seats was handy when the train was full and there was more room in the entrance than on a 158. Have sat on them myself from Kings Cross to Doncaster it was easy enough to stand up and let the seat up go up while people alighted and boarded and then sit back down again when to doors closed again. Very handy seats pity they was removed when they refitted the toilets and entrances etc.
 
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yorksrob

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The 4 seats was handy when the train was full and there was more room in the entrance than on a 158. Have sat on them myself from Kings Cross to Doncaster it was easy enough to stand up and let the seat up go up while people alighted and boarded and then sit back down again when to doors closed again. Very handy seats pity they was removed when they refitted the toilets and entrances etc.

Indeed. Infact, if it had been up to me, I would have added them to the Mk 2's, where I seem to have spent a fair few journeys in the vestibule !
 

Bletchleyite

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If that's happening, doesn't it imply a failure of the yield-management system? If that is working properly, then shouldn't all the prices on those services be high enough to ensure that there is no overcrowding, with those who won't pay being forced towards less crowded services?

Depends how you run it. Yield management is maximising the income from your assets. It's quite possible that at certain times an overcrowded train at lower fares is more profitable than a nearly empty one at higher fares. Though VTWC seems largely to disagree.

There's also the issue of Off Peak Returns which are regulated. Really, Friday evening until close of service, and Sunday from about 1200 to close of service, on VTWC at least, should be Anytime only given the loadings. But that isn't politically acceptable.
 

lincolnshire

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One cause is that on most services, too high a percentage of seats is for 1st class rather than standard class passengers.

THey are the biggest waste of space on the train these days as its only peak hours they might be full the rest of the time it can be spot the passenger.

How many staff have they now fussing over the first class coaches? all some want is to think they are getting something for free food and drink, its costed into the ticket.
What gets me is how many is paying the proper 1st class price? and how many are been subsidised by the passengers in standard class just like the airlines.
 

Senex

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It's quite possible that at certain times an overcrowded train at lower fares is more profitable than a nearly empty one at higher fares.

Isn't the ideal to manage it so as to get the nearly-full train at the highest possible fares? (I certainly don't understand how the nearly-empty train at the high fares fits in with any normal yield management ideas -- those on it would have to be paying very high fares indeed!)

There's also the issue of Off Peak Returns which are regulated. Really, Friday evening until close of service, and Sunday from about 1200 to close of service, on VTWC at least, should be Anytime only given the loadings. But that isn't politically acceptable.

And there's the problem stemming from the fact that the politicians won't decide what sort of a railway they want. If franchises are supposed to deliver the best returns to the taxpayer, then you go for whatever brings in the greatest net income. If they're supposed to move people when the people want to be moved, other rules apply. Who should get the blame for the overcrowing? The TOCs or the politicians?
 

yorksrob

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There's no reason for first class to run empty on InterCity trains while standard is full. If this is happening, it means that first class fares are too high.
 

Bletchleyite

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THey are the biggest waste of space on the train these days as its only peak hours they might be full the rest of the time it can be spot the passenger.

How many staff have they now fussing over the first class coaches? all some want is to think they are getting something for free food and drink, its costed into the ticket.
What gets me is how many is paying the proper 1st class price? and how many are been subsidised by the passengers in standard class just like the airlines.

Have you seen the price of an airline business or first class ticket? It is much more the opposite way round - cheap economy fares are sometimes subsidised by the business class passengers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Isn't the ideal to manage it so as to get the nearly-full train at the highest possible fares? (I certainly don't understand how the nearly-empty train at the high fares fits in with any normal yield management ideas -- those on it would have to be paying very high fares indeed!)

The ideal from a TOC point of view is to maximise income, that is all. As for empty trains at high fares, you've seen VTWC Anytime fares I guess? :)

And there's the problem stemming from the fact that the politicians won't decide what sort of a railway they want. If franchises are supposed to deliver the best returns to the taxpayer, then you go for whatever brings in the greatest net income. If they're supposed to move people when the people want to be moved, other rules apply. Who should get the blame for the overcrowing? The TOCs or the politicians?

The politicians. Businesses are required by law to act in the interests of their shareholders, which usually means sweating assets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There's no reason for first class to run empty on InterCity trains while standard is full. If this is happening, it means that first class fares are too high.

Or not flexible enough - most of the time it's a choice between hefty Anytime and restricted Advance.

If I can have an interavailable First Off Peak ticket at 1.6 ish times Standard, I will switch to First for most journeys.
 
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