InterCity East Coast Franchise consultation opens

[David10]

The government balance sheet that matters already includes that debt unless you think that the bond markets are entirely blind.

Ermm no, thats why the government set up a convoluted structure when Network Rail was formed to keep what is now a £27 billion debt off its books. It's rubbish I know, but that is the way it works apparently.

 

[HSTEd]

Ermm no, thats why the government set up a convoluted structure when Network Rail was formed to keep what is now a £27 billion debt off its books. It's rubbish I know, but that is the way it works apparently.

No.... it did that so the government could claim that government debt was stable or falling at the time.
But everyone with an interest in the bond market knows what the true debt levels are, and price debt accordingly.

 

[Deerfold]

No.... it did that so the government could claim that government debt was stable or falling at the time.
But everyone with an interest in the bond market knows what the true debt levels are, and price debt accordingly.

Quite - it makes the figures look good for the uninformed.

Anyone who knows what they're doing/ looknig for realises we've debt hiding all over the place - not least in the many PPI/PPP schemes.
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Renationalisation is not on anyone's agenda and apart from a few diehards like Bob Crow, everyone accepts this and is trying to make the best of what we have.

Sadly it's not on the agenda of any of the mainstream political party but seems to be quite popular with plenty of people other than Bob Crow.

There doesn't need to be any immediate huge spending to achieve it. Simply don't relet franchises as they come to an end (or if you must, simply let management franchises like LOROL).

 

[dave59]

InterCity East Coast should be kept in the public sector. It is clear that the current franchise system is inefficient and a drain of public money which ends up with the shareholders of big private firms. Yet successive governments refuse to change the system. Why?

Our railway should be run for public service not profit.

Getting quite bored of this thread until this post. Why do people put up with this sham? Every few years new companies new liveries, contracts, fannying about demoralising staff with wretched uncertainty, yet contributors to this forum and others simply tow the DfT line and accept, sometimes almost with relish that a new company can somehow transform an operation that is staffed by the same people using the same infrasrtucture and rolling stock - all paid for in the most elaborate way by us the taxpayers. DOR, are happily going about their work growing and optimising the route without the private sector flare of Britain's great transport PLC's. A consultation on re-franchising itself would be more appropriate than this nonsense, preferably leaving the decision with Louise Ellman and her transport select committee.

 

[Bridge189]

When Virgin got XC and West Coast, they had to keep them as two seperate companies for accountancy / safety case purposes etc, but they did brand them all as Virgin Trains. They just had to be able to split them if necesary.

Likewise, there is no reason I assume why Hull Trains and First East Coast could not be run under one brand name? First Great North Eastern for example?

VT were jointly branded yes but they were entirely different products e.g. Onboard Catering etc and it actually caused a lot of confusion. I also believe the staff were either XC employees or WC employees and that none did a mix and match of both.

HT/FEC would be different again as they share similar routes and have a London terminus.

 

[Skimble19]

Why do people constantly moan about trains being rebranded every 7-15 years or so? Have you actually seen the state of trains by the ends of franchises?! Most FCC rolling stock is currently in need of re-doing - what difference does it make if it ends up in different colours?

As much as I would rather East Coast remained how it is, the fact the stock that was only recently painted by National Express is being repainted again kind of throws your comments about stopping liveries constantly changing out of the window.

 

[HSTEd]

Why do people constantly moan about trains being rebranded every 7-15 years or so? Have you actually seen the state of trains by the ends of franchises?! Most FCC rolling stock is currently in need of re-doing - what difference does it make if it ends up in different colours?

As much as I would rather East Coast remained how it is, the fact the stock that was only recently painted by National Express is being repainted again kind of throws your comments about stopping liveries constantly changing out of the window.

People would rather have a rolling programme than stop-start repaints.
This way trains that are shabby are left shabby because there is no point painting them when they will just have to be painted again in 12 months.

 

[tbtc]

Why do people constantly moan about trains being rebranded every 7-15 years or so? Have you actually seen the state of trains by the ends of franchises?! Most FCC rolling stock is currently in need of re-doing - what difference does it make if it ends up in different colours?

The same people complaining about this are often those who complain about TOCs still having trains running about in old liveries...

Livery/ branding/ paintwork/ vinyls etc are only intended to last for a certain number of years (same with station paintwork etc).

 

[Bridge189]

Aren't certain things in this new franchise going to be mandatory for any new operator such as the Flying Scotsman service, York stoppers and the current level of catering after DOR invested a steady amount in refurbing the cafeBAR and kitchen areas?

I've heard a rumour EC are after another EMT HST, not sure how true it is though.

 

[Manchester77]

As an example, First Class is no where near where it used to be
NatEx started that, going from crockery to plastic trays
East Coast have applied a model that is very close to Virgin Trains, which although basic is practical and works

Although it does in some ways take away the first classiness from first class with virgin I assume that with first class you get a bit more leg room as well

 

[dave59]

Aren't certain things in this new franchise going to be mandatory for any new operator such as the Flying Scotsman service, York stoppers and the current level of catering after DOR invested a steady amount in refurbing the cafeBAR and kitchen areas?

I've heard a rumour EC are after another EMT HST, not sure how true it is though.

Let's hope so. A level of continuity is important for staff and passengers. Marketing people should demand a uniform and business-like image - which does not mean swapping and changing livery all the time. Of course it does take several years to acheive then DfT re-franchise and cock everything up.

Lord Adonis championed this uniformity cause with regard to the confusing array of catering on offer and Chris Green the station environment. What they really want is a unified InterCity operation, but Greening, Villiers & co are about to put paid to that sensible idea for another 15 years.

 

[rail-britain]

Although it does in some ways take away the first classiness from first class with virgin I assume that with first class you get a bit more leg room as well

That hasn't really changed, throughout the East Coast franchise from GNER to NatExEC to EC

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Let's hope so. A level of continuity is important for staff and passengers. Marketing people should demand a uniform and business-like image - which does not mean swapping and changing livery all the time. Of course it does take several years to acheive then DfT re-franchise and cock everything up.

Lord Adonis championed this uniformity cause with regard to the confusing array of catering on offer and Chris Green the station environment. What they really want is a unified InterCity operation, but Greening, Villiers & co are about to put paid to that sensible idea for another 15 years.

DfT don't mandate the level of catering on trains (or liveries, or even franchise marketing names). It's entirely down to the TOC.
Same story with the new ICWC ITT.

 

[Bridge189]

The DFT are hardly going to allow any new operator to get rid of things the DOR spent a lot of money in introducing e.g. the new Kitchens/Service areas etc.

Besides it will be in the operators best interets to keep catering at the current level especially in First Class.

 

[fireftrm]

1st Class is at its best now, under East Coast, than it ever has been. I used to enjoy the Great British Breakfast silver service, but a free breakfast, toast, tea and then more tea and snacks later is fantastic. Virgin 1st class is marginally better, but the Mk4 coach beats the lack of view from most Pendolino seats.

On the opposite side of the coin Virgin's 1st class lounges are the better, with greater refreshment choices and access for advance ticket holders.

 

[dave59]

DfT don't mandate the level of catering on trains (or liveries, or even franchise marketing names). It's entirely down to the TOC.
Same story with the new ICWC ITT.

No, but IMO they >should< mandate for continuity and consistency, certainly a specified minimum where catering is concerned. Livery is an absolute no-brainer and new TOC's should be allowed only a transfer sticker near each door, or a small plague as in McDonalds restaurants. The red and grey of ICWC should be kept - as should have the classy navy blue of GNER. Announcements at stations should not publicise the operating company.. for e.g the ECML operation should be known as 'intercity east coast' whoever is running it. That's not to bring back the InterCity brand but to distinguish long distance from regional and local.

 

[HH]

On the opposite side of the coin Virgin's 1st class lounges are the better, with greater refreshment choices and access for advance ticket holders.

Which ones have you used? Euston is the pits and some stations don't have one.

 

[Aictos]

Why not just keep the East Coast brand name, could use West Coast for WCML as well

 

[tbtc]

new TOC's should be allowed only a transfer sticker near each door, or a small plague as in McDonalds restaurants

Accident, or are you really not a fan of their food?

 

[Manchester77]

Some franchises have almost set style naming. For example with stagecoach it's ____ ______ trains (east midland trains), first _____ (FIRST great wester, FIRST hull trains etc.)
Anyone get what I'm talkin about? I doubt

 

[dave59]

Accident, or are you really not a fan of their food?

Both! KFC man.