InterCity liveried 37s (what routes they were used on)

[tbtc]

fter kicking the habit for a year or two, I’m back browsing model railway stuff on eBay. Dangerous, I know…

Looking at the plethora of ‘80s/’90s stock on there with a fresh pair of eyes, the InterCity liveried 37s look a bit “odd”. It’s only now that I realise that I don’t think I ever saw any running in that livery and can’t think of what services they would have run. The northern legs of the Sleepers?

So, simple question – what services did InterCity liveried 90mph Class 37s run?

I could have understood it if there had been ScotRail liveried 37s, given the long-established work they did on the WHL/ Far North etc, but I don’t think any carried that livery.

Some English 37s made it into Regional Railways colours (but that was never as good as the Scotrail colour scheme IMHO).

Plenty of freight versions – given the range of work that they did. Even a “Police” version

But I can’t remember any InterCity ones at the time (or think of any service worth the name “InterCity” that a 37 would have been the traction for in those days).

 

[matt]

https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=intercity class 37 That will give you some ideas if you ignore the more recent photos of 37518 and 37254

 

[Iskra]

A quick google brings up passenger work in Wales with Regional Rail Mk1's. Intriguing question though. Hopefully someone can provide a more definitive answer.

 

[randyrippley]

Did any actually get full intercity livery?
All the few I can remember seeing (on freight/parcels work) were in "Mainline" livery - i.e. Intercity minus the branding and Swallow

 

[Helvellyn]

Essentially they were used on the non-electrified legs of the Royal Highlander (Edinburgh-Inverness) and Night Aberdonian (Edinburgh-Aberdeen) in pairs along with a generator car convrted from a Mark 1 BG. This was when InterCity was still running five Sleeper trains each night between London and Scotland each way: -

• Royal Highlander - London Euston to Inverness
• Night Aberdonian - London Euston to Aberdeen
• Night Scotsman - London Euston to Edinburgh Waverley
• Night Caledonian - London Euston to Glasgow Central
• West Highlander - London Euston to Fort William

The first four also contained Motorail vans (up to five), seated accommodation (the Mark 2D ex-FOs converted to TSOs with IC80 seating), Mark 3A Sleepers, Mark 2F Lounge Car and Mark 1 BG.

In the early 1990s InterCity modified and renumbered seven Class 47/4s for the diesel hauled legs, with an increased ETH and phospherous brake blocks (47671-47677). However, the reliability was not the best and after 'Organising for Quality' took place (that saw the Sectors assume responsibility for track and maintenance) InterCity gained a mixed fleet of ex Civil Engineers and Railfreight 37/0s and 37/5s that it based at Inverness (pool IISA). They were used on civil engineer trains and in pairs on the aforementioned Sleepers. A total of seven gained InterCity 'Swallow' livery (37152, 37221, 37251, 37505, 37510, 37683 and 37685, with 37251 named The Northern Lights.

At the start of 1994 the IISA pool consisted of fourteen locomotives - 37080, 37113, 37133, 37152, 37170, 37175, 37214, 37221, 37250, 37251, 37505, 37510, 37683, 37685.

The InterCity livered locomotives shouldn't be confused with the Class 37/4s in the late 1980s that gained 'Mainline' livery which was essentially the coaching stock version of InterCity and no branding. This was when sectorisation still saw a number of locomotives used on a shared basis despite having an 'owning' sector. This included 37/4s in Scotland (used on the West Highland Sleeper and InterCity Land Cruise luxury charters), Class 86s and 87s (used on Freightliner and Parcels services), plus Class 31/4s, 47/4s and 73s.

 

[dubscottie]

Depends on what you term as "Intercity".

A few 37/4 were painted in mainline livery which was the standard "mixed traffic" livery from 1988. They were used everywhere from the highlands to Cornwall on freight and passenger.

The first true Intercity (swallow with white bottom) 37s were the ones painted for use in pairs on the Inverness and Aberdeen sleepers to replace the 47/6 circa 1992.

Edit.. Helvellyn beat me to it!

 

[Cowley]

fter kicking the habit for a year or two, I’m back browsing model railway stuff on eBay. Dangerous, I know…

Looking at the plethora of ‘80s/’90s stock on there with a fresh pair of eyes, the InterCity liveried 37s look a bit “odd”. It’s only now that I realise that I don’t think I ever saw any running in that livery and can’t think of what services they would have run. The northern legs of the Sleepers?

So, simple question – what services did InterCity liveried 90mph Class 37s run?

I could have understood it if there had been ScotRail liveried 37s, given the long-established work they did on the WHL/ Far North etc, but I don’t think any carried that livery.

Some English 37s made it into Regional Railways colours (but that was never as good as the Scotrail colour scheme IMHO).

Plenty of freight versions – given the range of work that they did. Even a “Police” version

But I can’t remember any InterCity ones at the time (or think of any service worth the name “InterCity” that a 37 would have been the traction for in those days).

Good evening tbtc.

I started a thread off about 'Class 37s and generator cars on Scottish sleepers' a few months ago that's still in the history section, although I still haven't worked out how to link old threads/YouTube/program our washing machine etc.

Anyway, in the early 90s Intercity/Mainline liveried class 37 appeared on a variety of different workings including Inverness/Aberdeen/Fort William to Euston sleepers (the diesel hauled parts in Scotland), internal Scottish provincial services, some other Provincial Railways services around Manchester, Cardiff, Bristol etc - I'm thinking of locos like 37431 that were in this livery and worked those services.
They also worked down to Cornwall on the 'Silver Bullet' china clay trains (at least 37416 and I'm sure others did).
Basically they got around, and it wasn't just the ETH fitted 37/4s either, some 37/0s and 37/5s were painted in Intercity livery for the Scottish sleeper services too.

There are subtle differences between Intercity and 'Mainline' liveries, although I'm not absolutely certain what they are, maybe the lntercity scheme has lighter colours slightly on the lower bodyside maybe?

Anyway, I suggest you buy as many of each as possible off eBay and then assemble a 15 coach train of mk3 sleepers and mk2 seated coaches plus a mk1 generator car for your railway...

Oh and a house extension.

 

[Cowley]

Yes and what Helvellyn and Dubscottie said while I was trying to type my reply out.

 

[physics34]

They looked stunning pulling the IC mk1s around the highlands

 

[Far north 37]

37221 251 505 510 683 685 carried the full intercity swallow livery 37152 carrried it to but without the intercity branding just the swallow logos

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Anyone got a pic of the difference between the liveries, its making my brain hurt this late at night.

It is IMHO the best livery the 37s carrier, just looks so smart and suited. I would plan a model around around just running these all day.

 

[Cowley]

37221 251 505 510 683 685 carried the full intercity swallow livery 37152 carrried it to but without the intercity branding just the swallow logos

I remember that you and Sprinterguy helped me a lot when I was researching this a little while ago.
To help the op it'd be interesting to list the locos that were painted in either Intercity or Mainline livery over the years wouldn't it? These two colour schemes look pretty much the same to the uninitiated anyway (actually my livery geekiness wants to know too really).
These are all taken from Platform 5 books between 1990 and 1994 so they probably weren't all painted in IC/Mainline at the same time, as some would have been repainted into Regional Railways livery around then as well.
Anyway, this is what I've come up with...

Mainline livery:

37401
37402
37404
37405
37406
37407
37409
37410
37415
37416
37417
37419
37423
37424
37430
37431

Intercity livery (all these were locos for the Scottish sleeper services):

37152
37221
37251
37505
37510
37683
37685

So 23 altogether in similar liveries but as said they didn't half get around... From the far north of Scotland to the far west of England...

 

[Far north 37]

I remember that you and Sprinterguy helped me a lot when I was researching this a little while ago.
To help the op it'd be interesting to list the locos that were painted in either Intercity or Mainline livery over the years wouldn't it? These two colour schemes look pretty much the same to the uninitiated anyway (actually my livery geekiness wants to know too really).
These are all taken from Platform 5 books between 1990 and 1994 so they probably weren't all painted in IC/Mainline at the same time, as some would have been repainted into Regional Railways livery around then as well.
Anyway, this is what I've come up with...

Mainline livery:

37401
37402
37404
37405
37406
37407
37409
37410
37415
37416
37417
37419
37423
37424
37430
37431

Intercity livery (all these were locos for the Scottish sleeper services):

37221
37251
37505
37510
37683
37685


So 22 altogether in similar liveries but as said they didn't half get around... From the far north of Scotland to the far west of England...

i
thats a real good list and very accurate the only one im not sure about is 37431 always mind it carrying trainload petroleum livery

 

[Cowley]

Anyone got a pic of the difference between the liveries, its making my brain hurt this late at night.

It is IMHO the best livery the 37s carrier, just looks so smart and suited. I would plan a model around around just running these all day.

Well I've plagiarised the internet for some photos here and none of these are mine, so thanks to whoever took these but I'm quite tired and can't be bothered to work out who took what right now.

Photo 1 - 37685 in full Intercity Swallow livery, note how light the grey is around the red stripe...

Photo 2 - 37401 in 'Mainline' livery.
From looking at it, the grey above the red stripe is the same as Intercity, but below the red stripe is quite a different shade of grey from 37685. Also 37401 has no Intercity Swallow motif on the bodyside just like all the other Mainline liveried examples. A more basic livery.

Photo 3 - My personal favourite when it comes to class 37 liveries.
Quite amazing to think that thirty years after this photo was taken you can still get onto a regular service train hauled by a 37 still in this exact same colour scheme... Unbelievable actually.

Now get some sleep Tim, and try not to dream of confusing red stripes and different (50) shades of grey.

 

[Cowley]

i
thats a real good list and very accurate the only one im not sure about is 37431 always mind it carrying trainload petroleum livery

Interestingly enough that's one of the 37s that I'm dead certain about, as I had it from Manchester Victoria to Salford Central on 5/6/91 on the 17:06 Manchester to Southport and it was in that livery.
Here is someone else's (bobbyblack51s) photo of the beast from back in the day.
It's funny how good they looked coupled to a rake of Regional Railways coaches.
Mmm nice...

 

[Far north 37]

Well I've plagiarised the internet for some photos here and none of these are mine, so thanks to whoever took these but I'm quite tired and can't be bothered to work out who took what right now.

Photo 1 - 37685 in full Intercity Swallow livery, note how light the grey is around the red stripe...

Photo 2 - 37401 in 'Mainline' livery.
From looking at it, the grey above the red stripe is the same as Intercity, but below the red stripe is quite a different shade of grey from 37685. Also 37401 has no Intercity Swallow motif on the bodyside just like all the other Mainline liveried examples. A more basic livery.

Photo 3 - My personal favourite when it comes to class 37 liveries.
Quite amazing to think that thirty years after this photo was taken you can still get onto a regular service train hauled by a 37 still in this exact same colour scheme... Unbelievable actually.

Now get some sleep Tim, and try not to dream of confusing red stripes and ad different (50) shades of grey.

im sorry 37431 was in mainline livery it had small petroleum decals on the cabside thats what threw me off also think it was named bullidae which is a trainload petroleum name

 

[Cowley]

im sorry 37431 was in mainline livery it had small petroleum decals on the cabside thats what threw me off also think it was named bullidae which is a trainload petroleum name

Spot on. I'd forgotten about that.
It was strange back then that you had 37s in (supposedly) passenger sector liveries like Mainline allocated to freight workings, and also freight liveried locos like 37423 frequently working passenger turns.

All in all enough to give you a headache. And having tried to build a model railway set in that era - very flipping expensive trying to have all the different combinations of loco vs freight and passenger stock that you'd see around, even on a fairly basic route like the West Highland line...

 

[GusB]

Spot on. I'd forgotten about that.
It was strange back then that you had 37s in (supposedly) passenger sector liveries like Mainline allocated to freight workings, and also freight liveried locos like 37423 frequently working passenger turns.

All in all enough to give you a headache. And having tried to build a model railway set in that era - very flipping expensive trying to have all the different combinations of loco vs freight and passenger stock that you'd see around, even on a fairly basic route like the West Highland line...

Maybe this is drifting slightly off-topic, but it wouldn't be that expensive. My local route is Aberdeen - Inverness and there was such a plethora of liveries on the go from the mid-80s until the early 90s that you'd only really need one of each to model a prototypical train. Memories aren't so good, but most of the stock was early Mk2 and they could be seen in blue/grey, ScotRail blue stripe, Network SouthEast and the LNER-inspired green/cream that they used on the Kyle line. Nothing ever matched!

To get back on topic, I don't ever recall seeing any 37s in either mainline or IC livery. The ones I recall were mainly large logo livery, but I suppose it's possible that they passed me by without noticing.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

im sorry 37431 was in mainline livery it had small petroleum decals on the cabside thats what threw me off also think it was named bullidae which is a trainload petroleum name

Shortest-lived of all the 37/4s too, I believe. My favourite was always 430 after having it from Mach to Aber while on holiday with my parents. This would've been 1989/90 I think, it was still in large logo then. Another one no longer with us...

 

[Townsend Hook]

There has also, of course, been Colas' 37254 in Intercity Swallow livery on Network Rail infrastructure monitoring trains until it was repainted into house colours earlier this year. I suspect somewhat out of scope for this thread as it was a livery inherited from preservation at the Spa Valley..