Interesting response from LM regarding lack of ticket buying opportunities

[thewolf]

My dad recently fired off an email to London Midland, regarding a lack of opportunity to buy a ticket and the amount of revenue they are potentially losing through this. He highlighted the fact that even for those who are willing and ready to purchase a ticket to travel, there is often no opportunity to purchase one as a result of limited ticket office opening and a lack of on-train inspections.

He pointed out that on a number of occasions he has travelled from the local station - which has recently been cutback to skeleton opening hours and doesn't even have a permit machine any more - in to Birmingham, with no guard passing through the train. Once reaching New Street, when leaving via the Hill Street exit, there is again no opportunity to purchase a ticket.

It wasn't a boast about fare dodging, just an email pointing out that often those who want to pay, aren't presented with an opportunity of doing so.

He got a reply from LM today, he wasn't very impressed by it.

It started with a standard copy-paste threat relating to fare dodging. And then, rather cheekily, I would suggest, went on to suggest that if he wishes to pay up for any journeys he didn't pay for, he can send them a cheque for the 'outstanding' amount

 

[Qwerty133]

But he could pay at the other entrance to new street and this email could be evidence for a section 5 offence if he is caught by RPOs

 

[RPI]

Which station is that then as all stations in the W Mids that have a ticket office also have either a TVM or PERTIS?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

But he could pay at the other entrance to new street and this email could be evidence for a section 5 offence if he is caught by RPOs

Is the passenger under any responsibility to search for ticket buying facilities though? If he requires the Hill St entrance then I'd be surprised if he had to go out of his way in search of them (i.e. across the entire station to the main concourse).

 

[Ferret]

Is the passenger under any responsibility to search for ticket buying facilities though? If he requires the Hill St entrance then I'd be surprised if he had to go out of his way in search of them (i.e. across the entire station to the main concourse).

It's the passenger's responsibility to pay the fare, but equally it's LM's responsibility to give you the opportunity, and I don't find it reasonable for people to have to scour New St station looking for somebody to pay! Sometimes there are RPIs on both exits, sometimes just on one, sometimes not at all! LM's attitude to collecting revenue is bizarre quite frankly! It's almost as though they are happy for their railway to be free in the afternoons and evenings!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It's the passenger's responsibility to pay the fare, but equally it's LM's responsibility to give you the opportunity, and I don't find it reasonable for people to have to scour New St station looking for somebody to pay!

Aye, sorry, I knew that it's their responsibility to pay, however I wasn't certain in cases such as this where it seems as if LM are almost neglecting their duty to provide opportunity. (Very OT this but, ignoring the law, I personally believe it's completely wrong that a passenger should have to go so far out of their way to do so. I'd like to see the legal outcome if such a case ever arose as Qwerty133 implied.)

 

[Ferret]

Aye, sorry, I knew that it's their responsibility to pay, however I wasn't certain in cases such as this where it seems as if LM are almost neglecting their duty to provide opportunity. (Very OT this but, ignoring the law, I personally believe it's completely wrong that a passenger should have to go so far out of their way to do so. I'd like to see the legal outcome if such a case ever arose as Qwerty133 implied.)

No apology necessary - I completely agree that the rail companies should give people the opportunity to pay. I'm working a late one tonight and I'll still be going through giving people an opportunity to pay!

 

[wintonian]

It started with a standard copy-paste threat relating to fare dodging. And then, rather cheekily, I would suggest, went on to suggest that if he wishes to pay up for any journeys he didn't pay for, he can send them a cheque for the 'outstanding' amount

I had a similar response from a government minister a couple of years ago after I explained that I had spent the last year or so trying to give his department back money they were owed, I suggested that it might be a good idea for them sort out their own accounting and collection rate before reducing front line expenditure. Part of the response was your welcome to give me your details and I'll make sure it's paid back - mind you there was a number of media outlets there at the time!

In reality what this demonstrates is that it isn't always cost effective to collect on sums due and provide enforcement even if any admission as such would be politically damaging or would horrify the companies PR department.

 

[thewolf]

Which station is that then as all stations in the W Mids that have a ticket office also have either a TVM or PERTIS?

I suspect its the only one that doesn't Was a Permit machine until about 2 years ago, when it got taken out and nothing has replaced it, coincidentally about the same time the ticket office seemed to start opening less and less.

--

With regards to going to the 'other' entrance at New Street, I don't see why you should have to - It's not as though using that entrance is a sneaky way out (like going out through the lifts could be interpreted as) and I personally find using the Hill Street entrance much easier as it comes out more conveniently for what I need (generally) and avoids the rush around the other side.

It's also worth pointing out that the 'main' entrance is shut from about 10pm because of the construction works (or certainly was doing so before Christmas).

 

[bb21]

A large part of the debate will hinge on what constitutes a (reasonable) opportunity to pay. We have been through this before (such as in this thread) and did not reach consensus.

 

[Jeni]

I really don't see why LM don't install a couple of ticket machines at the Navigation Street entrance, they'd fairly quickly pay for themselves and take away the excuse of "I came in the other entrance and there's no ticket office".

Though let's not start a debate on whether that's a valid excuse or not!

 

[The Planner]

Pretty sure there used to be one. One of the old big red types with destinations on seperate buttons.

 

[dvboy]

There was, it was the last in in service and got removed sometime in the last few years after being out of service long before that.

The entrance we're talking about is on Navigation Street, by the way, and referred to on Station signage as Victoria Square.

None of this will be an issue from April as the only entrance to New Street station will be from Stephenson Street and supposed to be barriered at all times.

 

[Simon11]

Every Sunday, I travel on a late evening service from Ruislip which doesn't have any barriers. Then at High Wycombe change trains where the guard jumps on at Banbury. However most guards fail to ticket check the train, I would say around 40% mark. I would have a guess the majority of them just sit at the back of the train..... If it was a Friday/Saturday evening, I would understand, but Sunday evening! Upon arriving at Birmingham, the ticket gates are wide open.

Now surely Chiltern must be losing a huge amount of money by the lack of any checks and open gates! Then if the guard does come around, people just purchase the ticket.